Ask the Frugal Counselor a question and win her recipe book!

[Mary Webber]

Originally Posted by dipetersen

Here's a question: I'm the thrifty one in the family. My wife has never had to worry about money so it's kind of hard to get her to watch the spending. It especially bothers me in the kitchen where she will buy the latest "fad" foods that are over priced and not very healthy. Any advice on how to move her toward a more thrifty lifestyle?
Thanks

Boy, this is that old question again of mis-matched eating styles and shopping patterns. Please, please take a look at what I wrote to Will who asked a somewhat similar question earlier, and if you get the chance please also check out several other exchanges in this thread as many folks seem to be facing the same dilemma.

You may need to think about what your wife - or anyone- is really buying when they buy fads, names, impulse shop or just plain overspend. In her mind is the next new thing, the best for her family? Is she influenced by magazines, tv shows, or other sources of fancy food ideas? The best tack in that case may be to decide you are interested in better eating, ask her to check out a few recipes from good old standard cookbooks with you, even offer to buy and cook several meals a week. A lot of work, sure, but at least some of the food budget and meals will be improved.

I have to air a personal gripe here... As the wife of a man who loves to watch food tv, a man who is an outstanding cook, I HATE any recipe that calls for ingredients esoteric or exotic, not to mention expensive. And, frankly, as entertaining as many of those shows are, I find the whole idea of most of them, in this world of hunger and even in our hometowns, food insecurity, well, obscene. End of editorial comment!

I'm not sure how well I answered your question as I got a little sidetracked here. Let me know if I can help any further, okay?

[purplefdu]

Oh yay another Mainer Will you never fail to deliver the goods to the forum.

I'm not quite newly married (3yrs) but we're still settling in somewhat and working on making things work smoothly through the changes in life. I grew up eating chicken legs, quarters, thighs and other bone-in meat since it was always cheaper and often stayed moister with less effort in recipes. My husband has always eaten boneless, skinless chicken breast since he has a chance (his mom never cooked much at all) and never fails to turn his nose up when I buy bone-in chicken from the store. I normally only do so when its cheaper or I get it on markdown ($3/lb for boneless/skinless or .25/lb for quarters) but if I ask him to put it on the grill or eat it after baking he is a real pain. I could easily see myself purchasing more bone-in meat as our budget possibly tightens at times but the stress and hassle make it not worthwhile.

Any tips for getting him to stop snubbing bone-in meat besides de-boning it?

[Mary Webber]

[quote=purplefdu;19205]Oh yay another Mainer Will you never fail to deliver the goods to the forum.

I'm not quite newly married (3yrs) but we're still settling in somewhat and working on making things work smoothly through the changes in life. I grew up eating chicken legs, quarters, thighs and other bone-in meat since it was always cheaper and often stayed moister with less effort in recipes. My husband has always eaten boneless, skinless chicken breast since he has a chance (his mom never cooked much at all) and never fails to turn his nose up when I buy bone-in chicken from the store. I normally only do so when its cheaper or I get it on markdown ($3/lb for boneless/skinless or .25/lb for quarters) but if I ask him to put it on the grill or eat it after baking he is a real pain. I could easily see myself purchasing more bone-in meat as our budget possibly tightens at times but the stress and hassle make it not worthwhile.


Well hello, my fellow Mainer!

I see that you and your husband do have a bone of contention here! First off, several earlier questions/answers have dealt with the delicate issue of mis-matched tastes at the table, so please go back and take a look.

But on your specific question, anything I've ever tried to bone, I've mutilated. So forget that unless you have some serious skill. Now, before we look at what I think is a workable solution, let's consider the idea that everyone is entitled to a few things they just don't like or want to eat.

Back when I still ate meat, I just would NOT eat liver. I didn't care that it was cheap, I didn't care that it was super nutritious, and I didn't care that my husband and son who both love liver tried a gazillion tempting ways to cook it for me. I am one of the world's most non-picky eaters, so on this one I figured I was entitled! In an earlier exchange I suggested two newlyweds name three foods that they just won't eat, period.

Now, what I'd do in your case is buy that good, cheap, bone-in chicken and stew it with some onions and celery until it falls off the bones. You get a rich broth and you get great meat for soups, stews, casseroles, salads, sandwich fillings, etc. Then, for those meals where chicken is your featured dish, go for the whole bird which is going to be less expensive than any boneless piece. If he doesn't even want to eat from a whole roast chicken - which I just can't imagine! - well, you sound like a woman who knows enough to pick her battles. And this probably is one to pass on.

As far as any "snubbing" goes, that's a pretty loaded word to lay on bone-in chicken! You two may want to talk over what he means by what he says, how he says it, how you perceive what he says, and how you react to it. You guys may well have a bone of contention, but you may want to make sure you understand what it IS, and ISN'T!

AND... since you live right here in Maine, be sure and come up this weekend for the famous Yarmouth Clam Festival!

[Mary Webber]

Originally Posted by melaroe

Thank you so much, Mary, for your insight. And, yes, please address the later-life, parent-child conversation when you have an opportunity. I went through this with my parents (they are passed now). I managed to find some very useful advice via books and conversations with doctors/professionals. The tough part wasn't necessarily me--but them--they were not prepared.

First off, if you have any suggestions for books on this subject, please share titles.

I have given so much thought to this whole issue for a very long time. My parents have both been gone for a long time, but it's not an issue anyone can sidestep easily. And, it's hard to know where to begin...

Any discussion of late-life parent-child financial issues has to consider the power of past issues - of any sort - in the family, the older person's concern/fear of all the end-of-life letting-go's such as loss of ability to be self-sustaining, in control, giving up more and more pieces of independence (the can-no-longer-drive decision is heart-wrenching for all involved), the possibilities of increasing physical and/or mental infirmity (increasing paranoia can really complicate issues for an elder's family), serious illness, and death itself.

This doesn't even begin to touch on the seismic shifts of role-reversal, and all the myriad considerations for the "child" - of whatever age - who may be dealing with their own vast array of life changes and challenges. I truly cannot think of any situation as highly individual to each family, as fraught with all kinds of weighty baggage, AND as great an opportunity for...whatever needs to happen between generations.

When I trained to be a Hospice volunteer, I felt, as did many of my peers, that the 33 hours of intensive study, discussion, and reflection was terrific training not just to help others deal with those end-of-life issues, but as a guide for living, truly living my own life toward what I came to recognize as a good death.

I'm going to suggest just a very few things, ideas that I hope you'll consider.
First, "the conversation" isn't, can't be, just one talk. No more than that other conversation between parents/kids (you know, the one about sex) covered all info.
Any conversation about financial affairs between a parent/child has to be started early and happen often as a regular and ordinary part of your interactions., if that's at all possible in your most unique circumstances. I like the idea of a dialogue around tax time each year, and increasing to perhaps a quarterly basis, and eventually maybe monthly depending on how much actual responsibility devolves onto you.

These discussions need to be two-way, and if and when at all possible, be early and often enough for each to both offer and ask for advice. Of course, we want to protect our increasingly vulnerable (and in some cases gullible) elders, but any discussion must be (as much as humanly likely) respectful, non-judgmental, supportive, and helpful in both directions.

The most important thing I can possibly say on this whole subject is that your job as a parent is never, ever over and done with. Whether you want it to be so or not, your kids will always be learning from you, lessons from the way you live your life. And since you never stop being a role model, it may be one of the greatest gifts you can give them to invite them to walk with you to the end of the road.

A very dear childhood friend visited yesterday, and when Sue and I talked about this whole thing, I asked her how it had gone with her mother after her dad died. She said just those words, "It was a wonderful gift. She was so open about everything." Most of us never quite get over that little smidge of fear/awe/wonder about our parents, and to be invited to a discussion of financial and any other late -life issues they are facing is an incredible affirmation.

I am the parent of four kids, three of them now in their 40's, one in her late 30's. I am in a second marriage of 31 years, and I have two step-daughters. Is there the possibility for...shall we be nice and say...squabbling if I should suddenly die, pre-deceasing my husband? You betcha!

As much as my kids love Bert, and they so do, on my 60th birthday, my four kids and I went out to dinner together, just the five of us. Bert was more than totally okay with that, and that dinner was truly one of the most important and cherished things I've ever done. We laughed, we came close to crying a few times, we talked over a few "issues", I talked about our wills and financial information, and we laughed lots more.

I can't describe it, but as close as I've always been to my children, there's a new dimension now, one I find both enormously comfortable and comforting. Bert and I together have also had a few chats with the kids as these subjects come up. The parent/child conversations around late-life issues are seldom easy, but they
really need to happen. For everyone's sake.

[purplefdu]

Originally Posted by Mary Webber

Well hello, my fellow Mainer!

I see that you and your husband do have a bone of contention here! First off, several earlier questions/answers have dealt with the delicate issue of mis-matched tastes at the table, so please go back and take a look.

But on your specific question, anything I've ever tried to bone, I've mutilated. So forget that unless you have some serious skill. Now, before we look at what I think is a workable solution, let's consider the idea that everyone is entitled to a few things they just don't like or want to eat.

Back when I still ate meat, I just would NOT eat liver. I didn't care that it was cheap, I didn't care that it was super nutritious, and I didn't care that my husband and son who both love liver tried a gazillion tempting ways to cook it for me. I am one of the world's most non-picky eaters, so on this one I figured I was entitled! In an earlier exchange I suggested two newlyweds name three foods that they just won't eat, period.

Now, what I'd do in your case is buy that good, cheap, bone-in chicken and stew it with some onions and celery until it falls off the bones. You get a rich broth and you get great meat for soups, stews, casseroles, salads, sandwich fillings, etc. Then, for those meals where chicken is your featured dish, go for the whole bird which is going to be less expensive than any boneless piece. If he doesn't even want to eat from a whole roast chicken - which I just can't imagine! - well, you sound like a woman who knows enough to pick her battles. And this probably is one to pass on.

As far as any "snubbing" goes, that's a pretty loaded word to lay on bone-in chicken! You two may want to talk over what he means by what he says, how he says it, how you perceive what he says, and how you react to it. You guys may well have a bone of contention, but you may want to make sure you understand what it IS, and ISN'T!

AND... since you live right here in Maine, be sure and come up this weekend for the famous Yarmouth Clam Festival!

Snub is the word, lol. He'll eat the whole chicken so long as its got enough breast meat for him on it. But with a small home and only two of us we run out of room for a whole bird and the leftovers pretty quick. We've talked it over just short of me telling him he'll eat what I cook or else. He doesn't care if I eat it or its in the house so long as it doesn't show u on his plate. I thought he was kidding the first couple times but apparently his mom was fond of fresh killed chicken when they had a farm and it drove him nuts. A decade later he's still fussy. Right now it ends up with bone-in and boneless put on side by side for his portion and mine.

Thanks for the suggestions.

We have family plans or we might be tempted to head up to Yarmouth. We always seem to have plans when the good stuff is happening.

[Mary Webber]

Originally Posted by purplefdu

Snub is the word, lol. He'll eat the whole chicken so long as its got enough breast meat for him on it. But with a small home and only two of us we run out of room for a whole bird and the leftovers pretty quick. We've talked it over just short of me telling him he'll eat what I cook or else. He doesn't care if I eat it or its in the house so long as it doesn't show u on his plate. I thought he was kidding the first couple times but apparently his mom was fond of fresh killed chicken when they had a farm and it drove him nuts. A decade later he's still fussy. Right now it ends up with bone-in and boneless put on side by side for his portion and mine.

Thanks for the suggestions.

We have family plans or we might be tempted to head up to Yarmouth. We always seem to have plans when the good stuff is happening.

Ahhh, the first green beans of the season and as usual, my husband will not eat the little pointy blossom ends. Trade ya' !

[allcash]

Hi Mary! Your offer for advice delurked me My sister and I are both on an all-cash budget, but we have different opinions on categories. Perhaps you can settle a friendly family argument.
My sister includes groceries, household items (like toilet paper), restaurant, and toiletries in one category.
I keep separate envelopes for each of these categories.
Her view is that over time, areas in which one spends more mesh with areas in which one spends less (for instance, big grocery trip one month, but already stocked up on diapers), and it all evens out. Her "selling points" are that she doesn't have to pull money out of 3 envelopes if she buys apple juice, paper towels, and shampoo at Target, and that she's always under budget.
My opinion is that you can't know if your budget is really working for you if everything is lumped together. If I want to eat dinner out, and the restaurant envelope is running on empty, I know that's not in the cards. But if I looked in a "master" envelope and saw lots of available cash, I might think I had the wiggle room for a nice restaurant meal, but find myself with no grocery money towards the end of the month.
I don't necessarily think one of us is "right"--obviously, we each have our reasons for following our set budget guidelines. So I guess my real question is, what do you do?

[Mary Webber]

Originally Posted by allcash

Hi Mary! Your offer for advice delurked me My sister and I are both on an all-cash budget, but we have different opinions on categories. Perhaps you can settle a friendly family argument.
My sister includes groceries, household items (like toilet paper), restaurant, and toiletries in one category.
I keep separate envelopes for each of these categories.
Her view is that over time, areas in which one spends more mesh with areas in which one spends less (for instance, big grocery trip one month, but already stocked up on diapers), and it all evens out. Her "selling points" are that she doesn't have to pull money out of 3 envelopes if she buys apple juice, paper towels, and shampoo at Target, and that she's always under budget.
My opinion is that you can't know if your budget is really working for you if everything is lumped together. If I want to eat dinner out, and the restaurant envelope is running on empty, I know that's not in the cards. But if I looked in a "master" envelope and saw lots of available cash, I might think I had the wiggle room for a nice restaurant meal, but find myself with no grocery money towards the end of the month.
I don't necessarily think one of us is "right"--obviously, we each have our reasons for following our set budget guidelines. So I guess my real question is, what do you do?

Well, All Cash,

You're both right, so right, to be working within budgets of any kind! But you do bring up some interesting questions, ones that can drive you totally nuts if you try to be too exacting on a cash-basis-budget.

Because the grocery store and the more general merchandise stores such as Wal-Mart and Target have become so blended, and the lines between them completely blurred in many cases, it's really hard to separate monies spent on food, toiletries and various other sundry items. I lump these together in my budgeting. But, BEWARE, therein also lies the trap, the challenge. How to avoid dropping some things into the shopping cart that should be considered purchases under another category.

Let me give you a couple of examples... magazines moved into the grocery and discount stores a long time ago, but now books, stationery products and school supplies, garden seeds and tools, charcoal and grills, Christmas decorations, even small appliances, lawn chairs, and jewelry are routinely sold amongst or near groceries. Yesterday, I needed six decks of cards for our family's annual cribbage tournament this weekend, and yup, I picked them up with the groceries!

I tend to think of things as "needs" and "wants" and while food, toiletries and diapers are clearly "needs", most of what's on the list above is more of a "want." You can argue that you need to buy school supplies and yes, you probably do, but is taking that expense out of the food envelope good -or more important - accurate -budgeting? Pay for these things from any envelope you want, just be clear with yourself, what is - and isn't - REALLY a food expense.

Using this same reasoning, meals-away-from-home should be in a separate category, definitely a want in these times of tight money. And yes, there ARE days when I could argue that it's a serious need! Although we as Americans have certainly begun to cut back on our eat-out meals (which had crept up to as much as 40% of a family's food dollar), they can still be a hefty expense. While if you take a home-packed lunch to school or work, that's clearly coming out of the food budget, someone who eats at the cafeteria or even out at lunchtime needs to decide whether that is coming from the food budget, or will be shown under the separate category just for meals-away-from-home.

We haven't even talked about "fixed" and "discretionary" expenses, but they're a different, perhaps bigger and longer-term issue and less a day-to-day budgetary consideration. We'll look at those another time as they definitely offer possibilities for savings.

I hope this helps a little bit, but really, you're both keeping a handle on your spending, and that's what matters most.

[allcash]

Thanks! Great advice, especially on "needs" vs "wants." We're both mighty frugal, and typically stay under budget because "wants" come last--guess that's how both budget systems work.

[Mary Webber]

Ahhhh, yes, All Cash, that's how good budgets are SUPPOSED to work , but they so seldom do! Congratulations to you on your frugal willpower ...