All Animals Deserve Better Treatment

[rstlne]

It's possible to farm humanely, although perhaps not at the scale that would satisfy the American appetite for meats, dairy, and eggs. Back in the old country, my relatives had free range chickens in their yard. They didn't call that free range at the time, but that's what it essentially was. They always had a fridge full of eggs, which I tried and found to be better than store-bought. Unfortunately, they had to give up raising poultry when they sold the house and moved to an apartment complex.

[Looby]

Although I don't own any fur coats and probably never will I do own leather shoes and handbags and eat meat. I have also signed the Peoples Petition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People%27s_Petition and believe in animal testing for medical purposes. I have a scientific background and know how strict the monitoring is for animal testing in the UK and most other developed countries. I am also an animal lover and most of my charity contributions each year go to animal charities.

[gt0163c]

While I believe in treating animals humanely, I also believe in eating them. And, if I'm going to eat part of the animal, I believe it makes sense to use the rest of the animal as well. So, I have no problem with leather or dairy products. Similarly, I eat chicken, so I have no problem with eggs or using products made with down.

I've always sorta wondered about people who eat dairy products and/or wear leather but won't eat meat because they don't want to the animals to be killed. Only female cows give milk. What would those people have us do with the male cows? And, what would those people have us do with the meat that was inside of skin that's now their leather purse or shoes? To me, it makes a lot more sense to use as much of the animal as possible.

I also wonder about the marketing claims of having "free range" animals or animals raised in "open air" (or whatever the current buzz words are). From what I understand, that often means that the animals have the option of going outside. But, there's no regulations about what that outside area has to consist of (it can be a concrete slab or a nice grassy field). And, apparently, most of the animals don't generally choose to go outside. But, because they have that option, they can be classified as "free range" animals and, therefore, people feel like the animals are raised more humanely and the higher prices are justified.

I've read similar articles, research and reports about items that are classified as organic and such. And, for most of the items, there seems to be little real regulation over what is required for a product to be classified as such. Similarly, there seems to be much conflicting evidence of the overall negative effect of much of the pesticides and farming practices that have become common in the US and other parts of the world. I'm often not convinced that the extra cost is really justified in terms of better/safer products.

[Megan]

Originally Posted by rstlne

It's possible to farm humanely, although perhaps not at the scale that would satisfy the American appetite for meats, dairy, and eggs. Back in the old country, my relatives had free range chickens in their yard. They didn't call that free range at the time, but that's what it essentially was. They always had a fridge full of eggs, which I tried and found to be better than store-bought. Unfortunately, they had to give up raising poultry when they sold the house and moved to an apartment complex.

This reminded me of a great book I read last year - Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life, by Barbara Kingsolver. They spend a year eating only local foods, and meats, dairy, and eggs from animals that are treated well. It's a fascinating read.

[1littlething]

The ad at the bottom is for fur boots, that just struck me as odd. I don't eat meat myself, and I addbsolutely feel that animals should be treated humanely. I read somewhere that the typical American diet consumes two to thre times more meat products daily than is healthy. With the cost of meat it would be to everyone's benefit to cut back on the meat products used.

[layla17]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I watched your videos and the second one is especially awful. Something needs to be done to stop these horrible occurrences.

[jkuo13]

Originally Posted by gt0163c

While I believe in treating animals humanely, I also believe in eating them. And, if I'm going to eat part of the animal, I believe it makes sense to use the rest of the animal as well. So, I have no problem with leather or dairy products. Similarly, I eat chicken, so I have no problem with eggs or using products made with down.

I can appreciate your practical outlook. But eating meat and using animal products with knowledge of how they are produced usually means tacit acceptance animal cruelty. I guess I see it as the difference between saying "it's already destined to die, oh well, let's be practical" and "why do we need to kill it?" In my mind, believing in eating meat and being practical about using the rest of the animal still doesn't justify the fact the animals have to be cruelly treated and inhumanely slaughtered. (note, I'm not meaning to be critical, just voicing my opinion and trying to keep the discussion flowing).

Originally Posted by gt0163c

I've always sorta wondered about people who eat dairy products and/or wear leather but won't eat meat because they don't want to the animals to be killed. Only female cows give milk. What would those people have us do with the male cows?

Well, speaking from a vegetarian point of view here, sometimes eating dairy is purely practical. I don't buy dairy, but I will tolerate eating some when I'm out. When I'm traveling or otherwise away from home, I sometimes have no other option. Restaurants often have no vegetarian options without cheese. If I don't want to starve, I'll accept the fact that I will occasionally eat dairy. Also, I don't want to alienate friends and family. If I ruled out all animal products, I very rarely go to social and family functions because I would quite literally be miserable from hunger. I just try to minimize the dairy and gently nudge my friends and family into considering healthier non-animal product fare.

Originally Posted by gt0163c

I also wonder about the marketing claims of having "free range" animals or animals raised in "open air" (or whatever the current buzz words are). From what I understand, that often means that the animals have the option of going outside. But, there's no regulations about what that outside area has to consist of (it can be a concrete slab or a nice grassy field). And, apparently, most of the animals don't generally choose to go outside. But, because they have that option, they can be classified as "free range" animals and, therefore, people feel like the animals are raised more humanely and the higher prices are justified.

Good point. The meat, egg, dairy, etc. industries have been quite effective at pulling the wool over the public's eyes in regards to "free range." The marketing words are pretty meaningless unless you have reliable knowledge of the actual raising practices.

Originally Posted by gt0163c

I've read similar articles, research and reports about items that are classified as organic and such. And, for most of the items, there seems to be little real regulation over what is required for a product to be classified as such. Similarly, there seems to be much conflicting evidence of the overall negative effect of much of the pesticides and farming practices that have become common in the US and other parts of the world. I'm often not convinced that the extra cost is really justified in terms of better/safer products.

I'll have to openly disagree on this point. Getting USDA organic certification requires meeting certain guidelines. That's not to say that there's no lobbying to weaken the "organic" standards and that marketing words are used as substitutes (i.e. authentic, natural, etc.). Truly organic produce usually tastes noticeably better and is usually more nutritious.

Conventional farming practices do have serious downsides. Pesticides aren't exactly chemicals that are good for you. Using large amounts of pesticides just sends lots of toxic chemicals into the air, water supply, and into the meat supply (via conventional feedstock). Pesticides are non-discriminant killers too. They kill the bad as well as beneficial insects, and also have ill consequences on a wide variety of animal life. Pesticides have several potential health consequences including neurotoxicity, reproductive health repercussions, respiratory problems, and cancer.

Conventional fertilizers increase yields in the short term, but end up stripping the soil in the long term. They are also so concentrated that fertilizer often runs off into the water supply. This causes issues with algal blooms and less safe drinking water.

And let's not forget that conventional fertilizer and pesticides are largely synthesized from petroleum. It just seems like a dumb idea to have so much of our food supply reliant on a resource we largely get from other countries.

Originally Posted by 1littlething

I read somewhere that the typical American diet consumes two to three times more meat products daily than is healthy. With the cost of meat it would be to everyone's benefit to cut back on the meat products used.

True, but the meat industry has very effective propaganda. The public has already bought it hook, line, and sinker. With how much the American public loves meat, there will probably end up being more farming subsidies pumped into sustaining this country's cheap meat supply.

[NaturallyCheap]

Does that mean we should become a vegan? Since we should stop eating animals as well!

[jkuo13]

Originally Posted by CheapKunt

Does that mean we should become a vegan? Since we should stop eating animals as well!

What's wrong with veganism? It's not like eating animals or relying on animal products is actually necessary in this day and age. The only real downside to it is the inconvenience of the lifestyle since it's quite different from the mainstream.

[NaturallyCheap]

Originally Posted by jkuo13

What's wrong with veganism? It's not like eating animals or relying on animal products is actually necessary in this day and age. The only real downside to it is the inconvenience of the lifestyle since it's quite different from the mainstream.

The social issues are a challenge to most poeple!

I find it funny that people become vegans and still recreate mock meat/cheese/diary food?

Are you a vegan? Have you tried freegan?