Do "nice guys" really finish last with women?

[soupkitchen96]

For most of my life I've had terrible luck with women. Wait, that's not right. I didn't have bad luck. Honestly, I was just terrible. Period.

I usually blamed my failures on being "too nice". I complain to my friends about how the girl I like is date that jerk she's been crying to me about for months. Then recently, I read a couple of articles that made me challenge my assumptions.

Maybe the problem isn't that girls don't like nice guys. There's a difference between being friendly and being a pushover. I was a pushover. Anyway, here's one of the articles I especially enjoyed. It is quite painful since it described me pretty accurately:

The nice guy wears insecurity on his sleeve without knowing it. He sees it as a badge of honor for why he doesn’t succeed with women. He clings to it to cover the pain of failure.

It’s good to be nice to women. But hoping that meekness will attract women is a fallacy. Niceness on this magnitude is read by women as overcompensation for not having balls. It is overcompensation for not being willing to take true risks.Approach Anxiety

Now that I have identified the problem, the hard part is to get over my insecurity. Does anyone else have experience getting over the "nice guy" syndrome?

[arcadian]

a man who always agrees with me definitely isn't attractive.

we want men to be nice in the sense that they are sensitive to our needs. but we want someone who will take the lead, make the hard decisions, and be forceful once in a while.

i read this the other day. it might help ya.

why nice guys suck (some parts of article are not safe for work)

So for the nice guys out there, my advice is this: It's great that you're nice (to an extent), but have some backbone. Don't be a spine donor all your life. When your girl is out of line, say something. Don't let her walk all over you. Occasionally, be a "bad" boy (being bad doesn't translate to abusive or criminal). Say "No" to her sometimes. Raise your voice and be heard. Say something dirty/sexy to her occasionally. Drink a few too many beers and piss out in public. Smack her ass.

[katlady]

I've dated plenty of nice guys before. Nice guys don't turn me off. However, if being nice is your only good attribute, then girls will get bored pretty easily.

A friend forwarded this to me a few weeks go. It kind of mirrors what I think.

Solving the Nice Guy Paradox

Women like when guys are nice to them, but only when they don’t have to be.

Think about that. Most guys exclusively using the “nice” approach are doormats, and many are so because that’s all they can be. They lack the attributes to attract a woman based on pure gravity (physical size/strength/prowess, ambition, sexuality, intelligence, money, etc.). As a result, these guys are essentially forced to grovel in order to attract a mate, which is patently unattractive.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by katlady

I've dated plenty of nice guys before. Nice guys don't turn me off. However, if being nice is your only good attribute, then girls will get bored pretty easily.

A friend forwarded this to me a few weeks go. It kind of mirrors what I think.

Solving the Nice Guy Paradox

hey I read this article some while ago...dunno how i ended up reading it.

See, it has the key points..Just concentrate on improving these.."(physical size/strength/prowess, ambition, sexuality, intelligence, money, etc.)". It helps if you are confident enough to ask a girl on a date. Yes. It does.

So just ask her out.

[Ritter_Rote]

My husband is a nice guy. That's not the issue for getting dates. Maybe you are just trying too hard. Maybe you are too self-absorbed. Maybe it is something else. You may be drawn to the wrong sort of women. Only going after the most attractive and rich woman around, perhaps? Hard to know without knowing more about you. However, I will say--Nice Guys are Sexy. Being a nice guy is not the problem--ever.

[amandajane]

There's a big difference between being a 'nice guy' and keeping appropriate boundaries in relationship.

Nice guys are great! But if you've got a problem sticking up for yourself if (or when) something happens in your relationship then you need to look at why, if it's a pattern and what you can do to improve your self esteem and relationship skills imho.

The same goes for 'nice women' too. Pretty standard I would think. Gawd I'm no expert but I've learned to be assertive when necessary due to a couple of dodgy relationships, it's all about growth eh :0)

[sloria1]

Being respectful and genuinely interested in others is a great trait in men. But those "nice guys" who belong in last place are the ones who are constantly seeking approval, put women at the center of their lives, and are completely dependent on other people for their own happiness. These nice guys are not genuinely respectful; they often have selfish motivations for being overly generous. That's why they always end up finishing last.

[rollo]

I definitely identify with the nice guy syndrome. But I also think that having identified it, I'm doing much better not just with the opposite sex but in life in general.

One shouldn't be afraid of speaking one's mind, or of saying what one wants. What's more, no-one really likes a pushover.

[Mal Reynolds]

Sometimes being super nice to people isn't the most considerate thing to do. For example, if I have a friend who will drop everything he's doing whenever I ask him a favor, I might be scared to ask him to do anything. If he isn't able to prioritize my requests in accordance with his own needs, I'm afraid of accidentally taking advantage of him.

If a friend always agrees with me regarding which movies to see or where to eat, I will also feel like I'm taking advantage of him. Moreover, a friendship is suppose to be a sharing of tastes and ideas. Always agreeing with me means he's not holding up his part of the bargain.

A healthy sense of self interest and personal boundaries makes other people's lives easier, not harder.

[Miss Rosie]

Originally Posted by Mal Reynolds

A healthy sense of self interest and personal boundaries makes other people's lives easier, not harder.

That's the best way to put it that I've ever seen.

There is nothing more frustrating in any kind of relationship than finding out after the fact that you've accidentally steamrollered the other person, and that happens a lot with "nice guys". They'll say, "Sure, no problem" when they really mean, "I'd rather not", and then sit on the resentment until it explodes.

Another thing I hate is when them doing something for me means that I have to do something quite specific and usually not a good idea for them. If I'd known the real deal in the first place, I would have asked someone else for help or done it myself.

It's not even that women like jerks, because for the most part, we don't. It's that we don't like suck-ups. Okay, well some of us do, but you don't want to be dating those women because they will suck you dry!

A few phrases I love to hear from men when our needs collide:

"That wouldn't be convenient for me. Can we do it some other time?"
"I'm sorry, I really can't."
"I'd rather not. How about we do _______ instead?"
"That doesn't interest me. Why don't you ask a friend to go with you?"
"It really bothers me when you _________________."

I also love it when they can hear these phrases without taking them as a personal attack!