My friend is an Amway vendor, and though I have only ordered from them once, they're not a bad place. They sell in bulk, so it's an alternative to going to Costco, which is a bit out of the ways for me. And the fact that I get to help out a person I know is a plus, too!
Hmmmm. I just read though nearly 70 responses. I'm not going to add any peeves, but comment on the comments... which I understand doesn't quality me for any $20. That's okay.
I appreciate that folks are responding to the question asked. But there is also a sentiment expressed here that some wish for suggestions that are more helpful to people who are already doing the obvious. This what I'm responding to.
There are two categories of complaints. One is the category of good-but-tiresome bits of frugal advice. Like giving up the lattes and brown-bagging it to work. While this stuff is obvious, the reality is that many people who believe they can't save money haven't even done these basics yet. So it is worth putting this stuff out there for the newbies, which means that everyone else has to wade through it.
The second category is the generally lame tips. I call this the "shop the perimeter of the store" category. Huh, baking supplies are in the center aisles. In this category I include the one about not using credit cards... credit cards are a very useful tool if used properly. This category deserves the complaints.
But I think the thing to bear in mind is that, unfortunately, there are few really new and innovative ideas that save a great deal of money and apply to everyone. When we are first new to this save-money thing, it is exciting because there are lots of strategies to learn. But eventually we pretty much have learned what there is to learn that we can apply to our lives. We all want to continue to learn, so we come to sites like wisebread. But it is an unrealistic expectation that we will continue to find a wealth of completely new ideas at the same rate.
Frugality has limitations. That's just the reality. You can't save so much money that your cost of living is zero. There is a bottom limit that is a realistic standard of living. But even if you do everything possible, for some people it still will not be enough to make ends meet. There just is no magic.
But even if you can't make ends meet, or meet comfortably, what frugality gives you is the opportunity to have a rich life for less money. If hubbie loses his job, there will still be Christmas because we know how to come up with great gifts inexpensively or even free. We know we don't have to blow our wad to have a romantic date. We know how to put together attractive meals from the most humble ingredients. For people who do not have these basic skills, their experience of tough times is bleak and miserable. We know how to live really well, even in tough times.
Get real! It really does not apply to me as I don't drink coffee but I get tired of hearing "don't buy Starbucks." Anybody who is really having money problems surely is not spending $4 or more for a cup of coffee.
Christina: The rule of 2 - 2.5x your income is based on gross, rather than net, income. This is a fairly conservative rule, but certainly a good one to live by and reasonable if you have other significant debts (student loans, credit cards, etc.). This article via SmartMoney Magazine (http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/real-estate/how-much-house-ca...) uses the figure 3.5 times your income, though I would venture to guess they are using net income, rather than gross. When you use my salary, 2.5x gross income and 3.5x net are very similar figures.
Latte factor.
Snowballing.
Cut coupons (return for time is ridiculously small-time better spent with children, learning a new skill, or networking).
Get rid of your landline (so 911 can only roughly triangulate, and not locate you in a real emergency).
Invite friends over instead of going out (Suppose I am antisocial?)
Save X% for retirement- who can really achieve those percentages?
It's in your power to change things! (Sometimes yes, sometimes no.)
* Getting a second job to earn more money. I haven't been able to hold a first job, and that's after looking for nearly a year and a half. If I can't find a first job, how does the mysterious voice of personal finance expect me to find a second job?
* The latte factor. I don't even drink coffee! I'm actually quite frugal when it comes to buying things for myself just because I don't like having a lot of stuff lying around.
* Moving. I already live in a really inexpensive area, but 1. I don't have a car and can't drive one for health reasons, and 2. New York City and San Francisco are the areas where my area is vibrant. There's nothing here in my area at all, so moving would actually be more practical...if I could afford to, of course.
I'm sure some of this will be relevant as I get a job and actually have bills to pay, but it's mostly
I love Zappos.com and Endless.com for shoes. You order your shoes in the morning and the next day they are on your doorstep! They have easy, free returns too.
There's a lot that could be considered an extension of the latte factor -- lunches out, cable, all of those "luxuries" that we could never afford to begin with. A coworker made a comment to me recently, after I said I'd brought my lunch to work, that she really ought to bring her lunch more often to save a few dollars and eat healthier. It made me cringe a bit because she makes so much more than me that I know it didn't occur to her that I don't have the option not to pack my lunch, except for special occasions.
Basically I'm looking for advice that doesn't involve telling me to cut out things I could never afford to begin with.
I agree that the whole latte factor thing is very annoying, especially for someone who isn't a big coffee drinker. But even more annoying to me is the whole cut grocery costs by using coupons thing...to really get a good deal with coupons takes a lot more time than I think it's worth! And you can usually save more by choosing a different brand or a generic.
Set aside $50 (I've seen advice up to $200!) a month to savings. I'm single and living paycheck to paycheck - I don't have $50 a month leftover after I pay everything! Heck, if I had $50 extra, I'd be tossing it at my credit card debt.
I hate all the money advice "tailored" for a 20-something year old woman. Not all of us run out and spend our salaries (and then some) on Louis Vuitton, Manalos, spa treatment, mani/pedis.
Pack your lunch and don't eat out. Yes, it makes perfect sense. But when you hate your job and the hour away from the office with friends is your only solace in the work week, shouldn't that cost be a necessary part of your mental health budget? In long run, isn't it cheaper than paying legal fees because you got fed up and went postal on the boss?
Big Yes! on Penzey's. Been ordering from them for years and always happy. Can't stand to buy spices in the grocery store anymore - they all taste bland!
If you need rechargeable batteries (and they do wear out eventually), try http://www.greenbatteries.com/. They have good information about the different types of batteries and what each is best used for. I have always been happy with my orders from them.
Being healthy physically is often likened to being healthy financially, and I think the analogy holds here as well. Dieting is like paying off your debt and exercising is like saving. Yes, if you're drowning in debt (or are obese) then that is your primary (though not singular) concern. You need to loose the weight and drop the debt. But you will never be financially healthy if you don't eventually learn to save.
In the beginning, you may focus solely on paying off high interest debt, but as you work your way down to your student loans and second mortgage, you generally start to save money alongside your debt repayment. This is partially because it is as much a habit as anything and the sooner you can form that habit the better. The same is true for your physical health. Diet is always very important, but you will never be healthy if you don't get out and move. It doesn't have to be a gym, obviously, but parking far away and taking the stairs isn't going to cut it either.
Someone above said that this article was sophist, and I have to agree. No one is telling overweight people "You should exercise and then eat whatever you want." The advice is proper diet and exercise for good health. This study shows that if you exercise and then eat more you won't lose weight. Duh. Did anyone really need a study to know that? Exercise AND watch your diet. Its not glamorous or contrarian, but it is healthy, safe, and effective.
(And as far as injuries go, exercise increases bone strength which decreases risk of injury later in life, especially for women. That section was especially specious.)
There are plenty of money advices but, the worst one is "Don't use credit card". First off, the "reason" for not using them, do not apply to me. I pay in full every single time, I even pay before my statement cuts shall I want to pimp my credit score for any reason for that month.
I also think this advice is actually a bit harmful. Card networks, such as Visa, MasterCard and American Express, charge the merchants a fee for each transactions which, at the end, affect the consumer price-wise. So, if you are not paying with a rewards/cashback/miles credit card, you are just overpaying.
I get really frustrated hearing over and over to get down to bare basics, get rid of cable, don't have both a landline and cell phone, etc. We have been down to bare basics forever. Have NEVER had cable so can't get rid of it and I have never owned a cell phone :-)
Buy Gold! I'm sick of hearing this! Also, "buy silver"! Mostly the bloggers that are promoting this idea are the ones that are promoting gold investment sites so they have a vested interest in having the public buy gold. Maybe buying gold is a good idea but I don't have tons of cash sitting around to purchase $1200 ounces of gold (or $18 ounces of silver for that matter). It's getting tired.
Candice - AMEN on the Angle food thing! I totally agree.
I second everything on here - and the chnage jar! Oh, my.... someone told me a couple weeks ago that if I & my kids put our change in a jar we'd have 40-60 at the end of the month. You have to have 40-60 to waste in the first place & like someone else said, who carries cash? If I loose my debit card I can have it rpelaced. If I loose the cash grocery money I'm hosed.
And don't even get me started on why/how the kids would have that much chanmge in a month - I never give them money, they loose it. Each has a savings acct that they deposit money they find into but for them to find that much I'd be wondering if they are stealing from freind's houses. All my kids are under 11 - too younge for real jobs yet. All the paperwroutes & yard care gigs are taken up by adults around here.
What is it with lattes and money managers? Do they assume that the majority of us spends $3 on coffee every single day? I’ve lived and worked in Seattle (home of the latte) for over 30 years, and conservatively estimate that only about 30 percent of my friends and associates purchase lattes on a daily basis.
I also take issue with the advice to use coupons in the grocery store. The coupons aren’t usually worth much (a dollar off isn’t a huge sum these days), they’re for brand-name products which cost more anyway, and discount and high volume retailers like Grocery Outlet and Costco don’t take them. And as far as looking for stores offering “double coupon days:” I’m beginning to think they’re an urban myth.
My biggest pet peeve is people who are well off suddenly deciding how to live frugal and acting self-righteous about it. Their cutbacks amount to how I live my life. What? They want a medal for it?
I've always personally found the use of "superhero" when referring to anything but superpowered or costumed heroes to be annoying:
1) It devalues the term hero, which is really what you're referring to. The term hero is more than enough of a reverent term. Just because someone has determination and is kind to others over themselves does not elevate them above the realm of hero into superhero, just as someone who knows how to tweet isn't a "social networking god." They're both equally ridiculous statements.
2) It just sounds like cashing in on the current superhero craze. It's as ridiculous as sunglasses calling themselves "HD Sunglasses"... I think I even saw someone advertising themselves as HD without having anything to do with vision... like "HD Plumbing Services". It sounds like the same kind of pseudospeak that birthed "synergy" and "paradigm"
3) Not that it really matters, but did you know that the term superhero is trademarked jointly by Marvel and DC comics? You literally cannot have any and all parts of your product include the term "superhero" or variations thereof:
I feel like after 9/11 we were doing pretty good about recognizing the true heroes in our lives: doctors, firefighters, policemen, volunteers. Well, apparently being a hero just doesn't cut it nowadays, we now need to become superheroes.
In regards to number 1 on the list: give your stuff to goodwill or other charities. Only sell stuff that is "near new" or actually worth something (current computers, game systems, dvds, etc.) Even that stuff that you think is collectible (sports cards, etc) is probably near worthless to anyone who is a serious collector.
Selling an item on ebay for a buck or two isn't worth it as much as it is to charities that could use those items even more (worse, you overprice your items and no one buys). Get a receipt and put it toward your taxes.
My friend is an Amway vendor, and though I have only ordered from them once, they're not a bad place. They sell in bulk, so it's an alternative to going to Costco, which is a bit out of the ways for me. And the fact that I get to help out a person I know is a plus, too!
Hmmmm. I just read though nearly 70 responses. I'm not going to add any peeves, but comment on the comments... which I understand doesn't quality me for any $20. That's okay.
I appreciate that folks are responding to the question asked. But there is also a sentiment expressed here that some wish for suggestions that are more helpful to people who are already doing the obvious. This what I'm responding to.
There are two categories of complaints. One is the category of good-but-tiresome bits of frugal advice. Like giving up the lattes and brown-bagging it to work. While this stuff is obvious, the reality is that many people who believe they can't save money haven't even done these basics yet. So it is worth putting this stuff out there for the newbies, which means that everyone else has to wade through it.
The second category is the generally lame tips. I call this the "shop the perimeter of the store" category. Huh, baking supplies are in the center aisles. In this category I include the one about not using credit cards... credit cards are a very useful tool if used properly. This category deserves the complaints.
But I think the thing to bear in mind is that, unfortunately, there are few really new and innovative ideas that save a great deal of money and apply to everyone. When we are first new to this save-money thing, it is exciting because there are lots of strategies to learn. But eventually we pretty much have learned what there is to learn that we can apply to our lives. We all want to continue to learn, so we come to sites like wisebread. But it is an unrealistic expectation that we will continue to find a wealth of completely new ideas at the same rate.
Frugality has limitations. That's just the reality. You can't save so much money that your cost of living is zero. There is a bottom limit that is a realistic standard of living. But even if you do everything possible, for some people it still will not be enough to make ends meet. There just is no magic.
But even if you can't make ends meet, or meet comfortably, what frugality gives you is the opportunity to have a rich life for less money. If hubbie loses his job, there will still be Christmas because we know how to come up with great gifts inexpensively or even free. We know we don't have to blow our wad to have a romantic date. We know how to put together attractive meals from the most humble ingredients. For people who do not have these basic skills, their experience of tough times is bleak and miserable. We know how to live really well, even in tough times.
Get real! It really does not apply to me as I don't drink coffee but I get tired of hearing "don't buy Starbucks." Anybody who is really having money problems surely is not spending $4 or more for a cup of coffee.
Thanks for the comments -- keep 'em coming!
Christina: The rule of 2 - 2.5x your income is based on gross, rather than net, income. This is a fairly conservative rule, but certainly a good one to live by and reasonable if you have other significant debts (student loans, credit cards, etc.). This article via SmartMoney Magazine (http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/real-estate/how-much-house-ca...) uses the figure 3.5 times your income, though I would venture to guess they are using net income, rather than gross. When you use my salary, 2.5x gross income and 3.5x net are very similar figures.
Latte factor.
Snowballing.
Cut coupons (return for time is ridiculously small-time better spent with children, learning a new skill, or networking).
Get rid of your landline (so 911 can only roughly triangulate, and not locate you in a real emergency).
Invite friends over instead of going out (Suppose I am antisocial?)
Save X% for retirement- who can really achieve those percentages?
It's in your power to change things! (Sometimes yes, sometimes no.)
That cracked me up!!
Use your credit cards smartly is not a easy job. For coupons, I used some coupons for online shopping a lot of times. Yes, coupon works for me.
* Getting a second job to earn more money. I haven't been able to hold a first job, and that's after looking for nearly a year and a half. If I can't find a first job, how does the mysterious voice of personal finance expect me to find a second job?
* The latte factor. I don't even drink coffee! I'm actually quite frugal when it comes to buying things for myself just because I don't like having a lot of stuff lying around.
* Moving. I already live in a really inexpensive area, but 1. I don't have a car and can't drive one for health reasons, and 2. New York City and San Francisco are the areas where my area is vibrant. There's nothing here in my area at all, so moving would actually be more practical...if I could afford to, of course.
I'm sure some of this will be relevant as I get a job and actually have bills to pay, but it's mostly
I love Zappos.com and Endless.com for shoes. You order your shoes in the morning and the next day they are on your doorstep! They have easy, free returns too.
There's a lot that could be considered an extension of the latte factor -- lunches out, cable, all of those "luxuries" that we could never afford to begin with. A coworker made a comment to me recently, after I said I'd brought my lunch to work, that she really ought to bring her lunch more often to save a few dollars and eat healthier. It made me cringe a bit because she makes so much more than me that I know it didn't occur to her that I don't have the option not to pack my lunch, except for special occasions.
Basically I'm looking for advice that doesn't involve telling me to cut out things I could never afford to begin with.
I agree that the whole latte factor thing is very annoying, especially for someone who isn't a big coffee drinker. But even more annoying to me is the whole cut grocery costs by using coupons thing...to really get a good deal with coupons takes a lot more time than I think it's worth! And you can usually save more by choosing a different brand or a generic.
Set aside $50 (I've seen advice up to $200!) a month to savings. I'm single and living paycheck to paycheck - I don't have $50 a month leftover after I pay everything! Heck, if I had $50 extra, I'd be tossing it at my credit card debt.
I hate all the money advice "tailored" for a 20-something year old woman. Not all of us run out and spend our salaries (and then some) on Louis Vuitton, Manalos, spa treatment, mani/pedis.
Pack your lunch and don't eat out. Yes, it makes perfect sense. But when you hate your job and the hour away from the office with friends is your only solace in the work week, shouldn't that cost be a necessary part of your mental health budget? In long run, isn't it cheaper than paying legal fees because you got fed up and went postal on the boss?
Big Yes! on Penzey's. Been ordering from them for years and always happy. Can't stand to buy spices in the grocery store anymore - they all taste bland!
If you need rechargeable batteries (and they do wear out eventually), try http://www.greenbatteries.com/. They have good information about the different types of batteries and what each is best used for. I have always been happy with my orders from them.
Being healthy physically is often likened to being healthy financially, and I think the analogy holds here as well. Dieting is like paying off your debt and exercising is like saving. Yes, if you're drowning in debt (or are obese) then that is your primary (though not singular) concern. You need to loose the weight and drop the debt. But you will never be financially healthy if you don't eventually learn to save.
In the beginning, you may focus solely on paying off high interest debt, but as you work your way down to your student loans and second mortgage, you generally start to save money alongside your debt repayment. This is partially because it is as much a habit as anything and the sooner you can form that habit the better. The same is true for your physical health. Diet is always very important, but you will never be healthy if you don't get out and move. It doesn't have to be a gym, obviously, but parking far away and taking the stairs isn't going to cut it either.
Someone above said that this article was sophist, and I have to agree. No one is telling overweight people "You should exercise and then eat whatever you want." The advice is proper diet and exercise for good health. This study shows that if you exercise and then eat more you won't lose weight. Duh. Did anyone really need a study to know that? Exercise AND watch your diet. Its not glamorous or contrarian, but it is healthy, safe, and effective.
(And as far as injuries go, exercise increases bone strength which decreases risk of injury later in life, especially for women. That section was especially specious.)
There are plenty of money advices but, the worst one is "Don't use credit card". First off, the "reason" for not using them, do not apply to me. I pay in full every single time, I even pay before my statement cuts shall I want to pimp my credit score for any reason for that month.
I also think this advice is actually a bit harmful. Card networks, such as Visa, MasterCard and American Express, charge the merchants a fee for each transactions which, at the end, affect the consumer price-wise. So, if you are not paying with a rewards/cashback/miles credit card, you are just overpaying.
I get really frustrated hearing over and over to get down to bare basics, get rid of cable, don't have both a landline and cell phone, etc. We have been down to bare basics forever. Have NEVER had cable so can't get rid of it and I have never owned a cell phone :-)
Buy Gold! I'm sick of hearing this! Also, "buy silver"! Mostly the bloggers that are promoting this idea are the ones that are promoting gold investment sites so they have a vested interest in having the public buy gold. Maybe buying gold is a good idea but I don't have tons of cash sitting around to purchase $1200 ounces of gold (or $18 ounces of silver for that matter). It's getting tired.
Candice - AMEN on the Angle food thing! I totally agree.
I second everything on here - and the chnage jar! Oh, my.... someone told me a couple weeks ago that if I & my kids put our change in a jar we'd have 40-60 at the end of the month. You have to have 40-60 to waste in the first place & like someone else said, who carries cash? If I loose my debit card I can have it rpelaced. If I loose the cash grocery money I'm hosed.
And don't even get me started on why/how the kids would have that much chanmge in a month - I never give them money, they loose it. Each has a savings acct that they deposit money they find into but for them to find that much I'd be wondering if they are stealing from freind's houses. All my kids are under 11 - too younge for real jobs yet. All the paperwroutes & yard care gigs are taken up by adults around here.
What is it with lattes and money managers? Do they assume that the majority of us spends $3 on coffee every single day? I’ve lived and worked in Seattle (home of the latte) for over 30 years, and conservatively estimate that only about 30 percent of my friends and associates purchase lattes on a daily basis.
I also take issue with the advice to use coupons in the grocery store. The coupons aren’t usually worth much (a dollar off isn’t a huge sum these days), they’re for brand-name products which cost more anyway, and discount and high volume retailers like Grocery Outlet and Costco don’t take them. And as far as looking for stores offering “double coupon days:” I’m beginning to think they’re an urban myth.
Sad but true: the latte thing drives me bananas. Also, any advice that begins with the word "just."
My biggest pet peeve is people who are well off suddenly deciding how to live frugal and acting self-righteous about it. Their cutbacks amount to how I live my life. What? They want a medal for it?
I've always personally found the use of "superhero" when referring to anything but superpowered or costumed heroes to be annoying:
1) It devalues the term hero, which is really what you're referring to. The term hero is more than enough of a reverent term. Just because someone has determination and is kind to others over themselves does not elevate them above the realm of hero into superhero, just as someone who knows how to tweet isn't a "social networking god." They're both equally ridiculous statements.
2) It just sounds like cashing in on the current superhero craze. It's as ridiculous as sunglasses calling themselves "HD Sunglasses"... I think I even saw someone advertising themselves as HD without having anything to do with vision... like "HD Plumbing Services". It sounds like the same kind of pseudospeak that birthed "synergy" and "paradigm"
3) Not that it really matters, but did you know that the term superhero is trademarked jointly by Marvel and DC comics? You literally cannot have any and all parts of your product include the term "superhero" or variations thereof:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8650
I feel like after 9/11 we were doing pretty good about recognizing the true heroes in our lives: doctors, firefighters, policemen, volunteers. Well, apparently being a hero just doesn't cut it nowadays, we now need to become superheroes.
In regards to number 1 on the list: give your stuff to goodwill or other charities. Only sell stuff that is "near new" or actually worth something (current computers, game systems, dvds, etc.) Even that stuff that you think is collectible (sports cards, etc) is probably near worthless to anyone who is a serious collector.
Selling an item on ebay for a buck or two isn't worth it as much as it is to charities that could use those items even more (worse, you overprice your items and no one buys). Get a receipt and put it toward your taxes.