This may be a decent time to buy, but that doesn't mean buying is the right thing. If you aren't going to be able to get that 20% equity and get rid of any PMI within the next year its probably not worth it. When you own a house there are a lot of expenses that seem like throwing money away even more so than rent does. Insurance, Taxes, Fees, Repairs, Any utilities that were normally handled. Sure its a decent time, but you need to be ready to commit to multiple years of living there and finding a good price. Run the numbers yourself, figure out how long you can reasonably stay in one home, what fees and other expenses will be included in the loan, what rates are for a non 20% loan, what taxes and insurance would be. Its a lot of variables, but it takes a couple years to build up enough equity that you wouldn't have been better off in the stock market with an index fund. Be careful, do not do this based on emotion, entitlement, momentum or perceptions. Use the cold hard facts.
To be honest I think this article sounded a bit like what all realtors are saying to first time homebuyers now. I am not familiar enough with your situation to give advice on whether or not it's a good decision for you, but I feel like you should research what kind of loans you can get without a 20% downpayment, and if it's worthwhile to buy the house considering all the costs. As a previous commenter mentioned, any loans with less than 20% equity would slap you with a PMI. Also, building equity is not exactly guaranteed considering that home prices are still falling in certain areas, and depending on the type of loan you get you might not be building equity at all. Also, you should consider if you will be moving anytime soon. Anyway, buying a house isn't totally about having the money, because anyone with a mortgage technically could not afford their houses in the entirety. It is really an individual decision and everyone's circumstance is different. I would say definitely don't rush into it just because of outside stimuli such as the tax credit.
One major premise in your argument you may want to reconsider is that if you wait you may miss the boat. Have you been listening to too many REALTOR commercials lately?
Once the bottom is actually hit it won't be a V shaped bottom. You will have plenty of time to jump in. Or if it is, the V part will only represent a small portion of any price change.
Don't pick bottoms. If you do, make sure the asset class is liquid so you can get out if need be. Houses are not liquid. If you want to pick bottoms in the housing market buy a housing industry ETF, or the Ultra/3X ETF.
This method of course doesn't really work for those who invest in specific areas - but then again I'm pretty certain you don't have some inside knowledge on an imminent change in your local real estate market that gives you an edge worhty of deciding to buy.
There are a lot of consumers that want or expect companies to be green. I think the biggest reason companies are going green is because it makes them look good in the eyes of customers. Being green is now basically a must have item for companies appearances and marketing purposes. If you sell a good or service and your competition is saying they are green and you don't then that ends up a competitive disadvantage. So companies make themselves green so they can brag about it.
At first blush, I'd say go for it. My wife and I didn't put any money down on our house five years ago - but we also didn't overspend. We now find ourselves in a mediocre position - we don't have much equity in the house, and we're considering moving within the next year. If our appraisal doesn't go up, we could be looking at breaking even, MAYBE.
We're not in a bad area; it's just that with appraisals based on comps of homes that have actually sold in the last year (for far less than they'd normally be worth, due to the depressed market) our appraisal is only a few thousand more than we paid.
The whole situation has caused me to rethink the idea of owning a home. Is it really the American dream? We've done a lot of work ourselves to the house to improve it to how we want it. We probably won't get that money back.
If we move again, it will probably be out of state, and I'm not sure we want to buy another house - especially if we'll want to move again in a few years after that.
I would say if you're planning to be in the house a good amount of time (with 13% down, at least 5 years probably), then it makes sense. But if you're going to move, it's not the best move, so to speak!
To me, that's far more important that your down payment amount. Can you afford to lose your income for 6 months or more and still keep the house? Can you afford to have your income substantially cut for possibly years and still keep the house? People got into big trouble because they thought their incomes would only go up, but the truth is that incomes aren't guaranteed like that.
Also, if you don't have a good-sized down payment for a home then that IS a sign that you probably can't afford it. Owning a home is a lot more costly than renting. Your utilities will probably be higher. You'll have to pay for mortgage insurance. Then there are the taxes -- which can go up significantly! And when things go wrong and need to be fixed or replaced -- which they WILL -- it's up to you to pay for it all. And heck, just the fact that the house is yours will make you want to spend money on a lot of little things that you would have probably left alone if you were just renting.
Owning a home can be great, but until you've been there you probably don't understand how large a burden and risk it can be. I would caution anyone to wait until they can TRULY afford it. There WILL be other great deals. Remember how many people bought homes they couldn't afford a few years ago because they thought they'd never be able to afford a home if they didn't hurry up and buy one before prices rose even more!
Howide Partner – Please, PLEASE don’t buy the house until you have at least 30% of the House value down! Please?
Unless you have 70,000 readers like Trent and JD, and make $20 to probably $40,000/month just from blogging, don’t do it!
Do not co-mingle your finds, which means no raiding of anything. A house is indeed a special place, but it will be your nightmare if you suddenly lose all your income. You need to come up with 20% down, and then have that further 10% buffer just in case something happens.
$1 mil house? $200,000 down, $100,000 buffer in cash. It’s that simple.
Hang tough, and don’t fall into the temptation. And if you need any more straight from the gut advice, come by Financial Samurai and share your thoughts.
Building equity is not what is relevant--it's the total cost of buying versus renting you should consider. If you buy, you are "throwing away" much more than your monthly rent costs in expenses related to the house such as interest, property taxes, and opportunity costs (savings at possible 8% return, vs inflation-adjusted appreciation of your house that is likely near zero). You are tying up a huge amount of capital. True, if you sell you get some of it back, but there is a huge cost associated with it.
Buying a house is not a smart *financial* decision unless those costs are less than the cost of renting. This is true in a few markets, like Detroit, Pittsburgh, but in the overwhelming number of markets, it is not. It may be a good decision for you to buy in other ways (you can buy exactly the house you want, make improvements, keep a permanent address for a while, etc.), those ways are just not financial.
In my view, your reasonings are sound. And presuming you're not buying way more house than you actually need, having one mortgage is not the end of the world. Especially if you have no other long-term debt.
Go buy your house, make it a home.
And then get on a track that allows you to pay it off early.
Most companies are not going to make major changes to go green unless they will see the result in their pockets as well. (not all, just most) But, let's face it, most of the time going green does save you money. By driving less, we use less gas, and therefore have to fill up less, saving more money. Also, by getting our bills online we bypass the need for a postage stamp, saving more money. In addition, when we recycle our bottles we are given back a deposit that we would not otherwise receive, again putting more money in our own pockets. Sure there is a major profit involved in companies reducing the 'free' items they supply, but isn't there usually a profit involved in going green? And don't we also buy into this as consumers?
"The law is that waitpersons do not have to be paid minimum wage."
Not always. It depends on the state law.
Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington all require full minimum. Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa and Ohio have lower minimums for tipped but are still in the $3-5 range.
Of course it's both. But there's nothing wrong with that. 10 years ago you would not have been able to convince a company to make these "green" waste-reducing steps even though it would presumably have the same effect on the bottom line....The reason is that now a broader base of consumers are willing to do their part for the environment. I imagine in the past the company would have worried that they would alienate their customers.
$10 GC only! I don't live anywhere near any Broadway shows, so Amazon please. :)
Many times you can get in for free or at an incredible discount if you offer some volunteer work for a show. I used to be involved in the local ballet company in a major city, and I volunteered to make phone calls for donations. In exchange, I got a few free ticket or discounted tickets.
Not all places will allow it, but it's worth asking about. Especially if you like to frequent the arts.
You have never been a waiter. No, waiters don't cook anything. But they deal with smart a$$ cooks, managers, and other waiters. When a waiter has five tables with 4 people at each table, being hassled over a free dessert you won't get tipped for is just that, a hassle. And furthermore, having to deal with "sharers" (yup, that's what you're called) is another headache. When two people drink from one glass, that mean it gets filled twice as often, which means more trips to the kitchen, wondering if the ice is stocked, and fresh glasses are in the glass trays. Then you have a manager audit monthly (at least where I work you do), and he is gonna question why you have tickets with two entrees and one beverage. Then there are people who order water. Then you bring their water, and they want a bowl of lemons and 20 packs of Splenda, because they are too cheap to pay for LEMONADE. You people knoooow who you are. More often than not, I will bring them a shotglass of lemonade, and say next time you should try this. It will keep your carpal tunnel from acting up when you try to stir in too much Splenda. I know some people say that a waiter is someone who can't find a real job. Maybe that person is paying for college because he isn't eligible for government handouts, and the restaurant industry is the only place that offers hours that are flexible enough to work around class and studying.
I estimate that buying a car and driving to work would cost me ~$3,000/year more than taking public transportation. In addition, instead of spending two hours per day reading on the bus, I'd be spending 1 hour driving myself to and from work and two hours reading at home (the reading is indispensable).
(And, for the record, this is the second place I've lived and worked in Midwest where I've taken public transportation to work, and I know someone who's done it in a third Midwestern metropolitan area. If you make public transportation a priority when you're seeking work and housing--and sometimes even if you haven't--it's quite possible even here. I mention this in response to Stacie, comment #7.)
#29 -
The law is that waitpersons do not have to be paid minimum wage. It is expected a large portion of their income is tips. They have to report all tips, and have to pay income tax on a minimum of 11%? of their receipts. That means that if you give the wait person less than that, not only are you stiffing them, they are paying taxes on that non-existent income.
for the people who don't agree or like tipping, it is your prerogative to not frequent restaurants that involve tipping (fast food, eat at home, do takeout). If you are really bothered by the system you can also get involved and try to change the law in your state so that waitpeople are paid minimum wage. It's kind of like someone getting hissy at the mechanic because they charge for both parts AND labor. As the mechanic would say, if you don't like it, then fix your car yourself.
Part of any offer is to obviously have contingincies in place such as home inspections, radon tests, water tests, etc. A buyers agent is there to provide you with qualified people to perform all these tasks in a timely manner as time is of the essence in any offer. They can help eliviate much of the stress that comes with purchasing a home.
As far as the property that sold for 335k I was going to comment on how if it was pending they wouldn't be able to just "back out" of it to go with your offer of 327k. To each his own I suppose. A sellers agent has to disclose any known property defects with any property to everyone as well, that's why when you take a listing you need to have the seller fill out the property disclosure form for any and all potential buyers and their agents to view. It's nice to have someone on your side to help figure out how all this info will effect your offer. If a listing agent is telling you the owner is motivated and does not have the owners permission to do so I feel bad for that seller because it's against the law.
Best of luck in all future real estate endeavors..
I would like to point out that my family and I always tip 18-20% of the bill. More if the service was outstanding. I would never have the patience or dedication to work those hours and deal with some seriously rude people with a smile on my face. With one or two exceptions, my servers have always been hard-working and polite. They all rely on tips as income. I don't ever want to be Mr. Pink (watch the opening of Reservoir Dogs for the tipping scene).
classy entertainment for cheap:
-use restaurant.com to reduce dinner bills
-look for free shows and music in your area. in the summer parks have all sorts of things.
- go to shows at colleges. they are great and inexpensive
-stroll through the park - romantic and sweet - and quality time
-make a homemade meal and rent a movie.
Really the key is to do your research. You DO learn what is the good deals and what are not. And then you know what to go buy the next time, and what to pass on.
If you don't have someone there who KNOWS the ropes to go with you and hold your hand, it'll take a few trips.
I've done Kmart doubles since July now. July, while I did get good deals. I was not GOOD...
Now I've got it down where I'm getting $30-$50 worth of stuff for $1-$2 in many cases.
I actually had a run on sunday where I had $36 in product and I only paid .11
Knowledge is power :)
As for surplus. I don't have near as much as most of the 'hard core' people do. But I do have more deodorants than I can use before they expire. I haven't yet decided what to do with them. Hubby and I contemplated doing 'hygiene baskets' for family members for christmas. I've contemplated donating to the church. I've contemplated hanging onto it for a little while as a just in case measure should something happen to my husbands job.
Sure, you see this phenomenon every place. I buy (and use) those reusable grocery totes at the supermarket and hardware store mostly because I like them better than the flimsy plastic bags--they're bigger, sturdier, more manageable. I certainly don't mind that they are also (maybe) better for the environment, but I don't kid myself that the stores are losing money by SELLING (not giving) them away for the common good. It's one more profit center and one less expense for them.
This may be a decent time to buy, but that doesn't mean buying is the right thing. If you aren't going to be able to get that 20% equity and get rid of any PMI within the next year its probably not worth it. When you own a house there are a lot of expenses that seem like throwing money away even more so than rent does. Insurance, Taxes, Fees, Repairs, Any utilities that were normally handled. Sure its a decent time, but you need to be ready to commit to multiple years of living there and finding a good price. Run the numbers yourself, figure out how long you can reasonably stay in one home, what fees and other expenses will be included in the loan, what rates are for a non 20% loan, what taxes and insurance would be. Its a lot of variables, but it takes a couple years to build up enough equity that you wouldn't have been better off in the stock market with an index fund. Be careful, do not do this based on emotion, entitlement, momentum or perceptions. Use the cold hard facts.
To be honest I think this article sounded a bit like what all realtors are saying to first time homebuyers now. I am not familiar enough with your situation to give advice on whether or not it's a good decision for you, but I feel like you should research what kind of loans you can get without a 20% downpayment, and if it's worthwhile to buy the house considering all the costs. As a previous commenter mentioned, any loans with less than 20% equity would slap you with a PMI. Also, building equity is not exactly guaranteed considering that home prices are still falling in certain areas, and depending on the type of loan you get you might not be building equity at all. Also, you should consider if you will be moving anytime soon. Anyway, buying a house isn't totally about having the money, because anyone with a mortgage technically could not afford their houses in the entirety. It is really an individual decision and everyone's circumstance is different. I would say definitely don't rush into it just because of outside stimuli such as the tax credit.
One major premise in your argument you may want to reconsider is that if you wait you may miss the boat. Have you been listening to too many REALTOR commercials lately?
Once the bottom is actually hit it won't be a V shaped bottom. You will have plenty of time to jump in. Or if it is, the V part will only represent a small portion of any price change.
Don't pick bottoms. If you do, make sure the asset class is liquid so you can get out if need be. Houses are not liquid. If you want to pick bottoms in the housing market buy a housing industry ETF, or the Ultra/3X ETF.
This method of course doesn't really work for those who invest in specific areas - but then again I'm pretty certain you don't have some inside knowledge on an imminent change in your local real estate market that gives you an edge worhty of deciding to buy.
There are a lot of consumers that want or expect companies to be green. I think the biggest reason companies are going green is because it makes them look good in the eyes of customers. Being green is now basically a must have item for companies appearances and marketing purposes. If you sell a good or service and your competition is saying they are green and you don't then that ends up a competitive disadvantage. So companies make themselves green so they can brag about it.
At first blush, I'd say go for it. My wife and I didn't put any money down on our house five years ago - but we also didn't overspend. We now find ourselves in a mediocre position - we don't have much equity in the house, and we're considering moving within the next year. If our appraisal doesn't go up, we could be looking at breaking even, MAYBE.
We're not in a bad area; it's just that with appraisals based on comps of homes that have actually sold in the last year (for far less than they'd normally be worth, due to the depressed market) our appraisal is only a few thousand more than we paid.
The whole situation has caused me to rethink the idea of owning a home. Is it really the American dream? We've done a lot of work ourselves to the house to improve it to how we want it. We probably won't get that money back.
If we move again, it will probably be out of state, and I'm not sure we want to buy another house - especially if we'll want to move again in a few years after that.
I would say if you're planning to be in the house a good amount of time (with 13% down, at least 5 years probably), then it makes sense. But if you're going to move, it's not the best move, so to speak!
How large is your emergency fund and savings?
To me, that's far more important that your down payment amount. Can you afford to lose your income for 6 months or more and still keep the house? Can you afford to have your income substantially cut for possibly years and still keep the house? People got into big trouble because they thought their incomes would only go up, but the truth is that incomes aren't guaranteed like that.
Also, if you don't have a good-sized down payment for a home then that IS a sign that you probably can't afford it. Owning a home is a lot more costly than renting. Your utilities will probably be higher. You'll have to pay for mortgage insurance. Then there are the taxes -- which can go up significantly! And when things go wrong and need to be fixed or replaced -- which they WILL -- it's up to you to pay for it all. And heck, just the fact that the house is yours will make you want to spend money on a lot of little things that you would have probably left alone if you were just renting.
Owning a home can be great, but until you've been there you probably don't understand how large a burden and risk it can be. I would caution anyone to wait until they can TRULY afford it. There WILL be other great deals. Remember how many people bought homes they couldn't afford a few years ago because they thought they'd never be able to afford a home if they didn't hurry up and buy one before prices rose even more!
Howide Partner – Please, PLEASE don’t buy the house until you have at least 30% of the House value down! Please?
Unless you have 70,000 readers like Trent and JD, and make $20 to probably $40,000/month just from blogging, don’t do it!
Do not co-mingle your finds, which means no raiding of anything. A house is indeed a special place, but it will be your nightmare if you suddenly lose all your income. You need to come up with 20% down, and then have that further 10% buffer just in case something happens.
$1 mil house? $200,000 down, $100,000 buffer in cash. It’s that simple.
Hang tough, and don’t fall into the temptation. And if you need any more straight from the gut advice, come by Financial Samurai and share your thoughts.
Best
It's better to slice through all the mysteries, and all the baloney.
Hammer's are henchmen, swiss army knives are tools.
The samurai sword is what you really want to be.
Building equity is not what is relevant--it's the total cost of buying versus renting you should consider. If you buy, you are "throwing away" much more than your monthly rent costs in expenses related to the house such as interest, property taxes, and opportunity costs (savings at possible 8% return, vs inflation-adjusted appreciation of your house that is likely near zero). You are tying up a huge amount of capital. True, if you sell you get some of it back, but there is a huge cost associated with it.
Buying a house is not a smart *financial* decision unless those costs are less than the cost of renting. This is true in a few markets, like Detroit, Pittsburgh, but in the overwhelming number of markets, it is not. It may be a good decision for you to buy in other ways (you can buy exactly the house you want, make improvements, keep a permanent address for a while, etc.), those ways are just not financial.
Witch hazel is great for healing tattoos. And awesome for the skin i totally love it
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/the-basics-of-private-mortgage...
In my view, your reasonings are sound. And presuming you're not buying way more house than you actually need, having one mortgage is not the end of the world. Especially if you have no other long-term debt.
Go buy your house, make it a home.
And then get on a track that allows you to pay it off early.
Good luck!
Most companies are not going to make major changes to go green unless they will see the result in their pockets as well. (not all, just most) But, let's face it, most of the time going green does save you money. By driving less, we use less gas, and therefore have to fill up less, saving more money. Also, by getting our bills online we bypass the need for a postage stamp, saving more money. In addition, when we recycle our bottles we are given back a deposit that we would not otherwise receive, again putting more money in our own pockets. Sure there is a major profit involved in companies reducing the 'free' items they supply, but isn't there usually a profit involved in going green? And don't we also buy into this as consumers?
"The law is that waitpersons do not have to be paid minimum wage."
Not always. It depends on the state law.
Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington all require full minimum. Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa and Ohio have lower minimums for tipped but are still in the $3-5 range.
Of course it's both. But there's nothing wrong with that. 10 years ago you would not have been able to convince a company to make these "green" waste-reducing steps even though it would presumably have the same effect on the bottom line....The reason is that now a broader base of consumers are willing to do their part for the environment. I imagine in the past the company would have worried that they would alienate their customers.
$10 GC only! I don't live anywhere near any Broadway shows, so Amazon please. :)
Many times you can get in for free or at an incredible discount if you offer some volunteer work for a show. I used to be involved in the local ballet company in a major city, and I volunteered to make phone calls for donations. In exchange, I got a few free ticket or discounted tickets.
Not all places will allow it, but it's worth asking about. Especially if you like to frequent the arts.
You have never been a waiter. No, waiters don't cook anything. But they deal with smart a$$ cooks, managers, and other waiters. When a waiter has five tables with 4 people at each table, being hassled over a free dessert you won't get tipped for is just that, a hassle. And furthermore, having to deal with "sharers" (yup, that's what you're called) is another headache. When two people drink from one glass, that mean it gets filled twice as often, which means more trips to the kitchen, wondering if the ice is stocked, and fresh glasses are in the glass trays. Then you have a manager audit monthly (at least where I work you do), and he is gonna question why you have tickets with two entrees and one beverage. Then there are people who order water. Then you bring their water, and they want a bowl of lemons and 20 packs of Splenda, because they are too cheap to pay for LEMONADE. You people knoooow who you are. More often than not, I will bring them a shotglass of lemonade, and say next time you should try this. It will keep your carpal tunnel from acting up when you try to stir in too much Splenda. I know some people say that a waiter is someone who can't find a real job. Maybe that person is paying for college because he isn't eligible for government handouts, and the restaurant industry is the only place that offers hours that are flexible enough to work around class and studying.
I estimate that buying a car and driving to work would cost me ~$3,000/year more than taking public transportation. In addition, instead of spending two hours per day reading on the bus, I'd be spending 1 hour driving myself to and from work and two hours reading at home (the reading is indispensable).
(And, for the record, this is the second place I've lived and worked in Midwest where I've taken public transportation to work, and I know someone who's done it in a third Midwestern metropolitan area. If you make public transportation a priority when you're seeking work and housing--and sometimes even if you haven't--it's quite possible even here. I mention this in response to Stacie, comment #7.)
"The more your have, the more you're occupied;
The less you have, the more free you are." Mother Teresa
I have been called "cheap" for years, but I have everything I
need (except a cool mountain stream to soak my feet in at the
moment :) ) Parks (national, state and local belong to us
all...I have taught my children to love and freely use
their "backyards" for educataion, relaxation, recreation....
#29 -
The law is that waitpersons do not have to be paid minimum wage. It is expected a large portion of their income is tips. They have to report all tips, and have to pay income tax on a minimum of 11%? of their receipts. That means that if you give the wait person less than that, not only are you stiffing them, they are paying taxes on that non-existent income.
for the people who don't agree or like tipping, it is your prerogative to not frequent restaurants that involve tipping (fast food, eat at home, do takeout). If you are really bothered by the system you can also get involved and try to change the law in your state so that waitpeople are paid minimum wage. It's kind of like someone getting hissy at the mechanic because they charge for both parts AND labor. As the mechanic would say, if you don't like it, then fix your car yourself.
Part of any offer is to obviously have contingincies in place such as home inspections, radon tests, water tests, etc. A buyers agent is there to provide you with qualified people to perform all these tasks in a timely manner as time is of the essence in any offer. They can help eliviate much of the stress that comes with purchasing a home.
As far as the property that sold for 335k I was going to comment on how if it was pending they wouldn't be able to just "back out" of it to go with your offer of 327k. To each his own I suppose. A sellers agent has to disclose any known property defects with any property to everyone as well, that's why when you take a listing you need to have the seller fill out the property disclosure form for any and all potential buyers and their agents to view. It's nice to have someone on your side to help figure out how all this info will effect your offer. If a listing agent is telling you the owner is motivated and does not have the owners permission to do so I feel bad for that seller because it's against the law.
Best of luck in all future real estate endeavors..
I would like to point out that my family and I always tip 18-20% of the bill. More if the service was outstanding. I would never have the patience or dedication to work those hours and deal with some seriously rude people with a smile on my face. With one or two exceptions, my servers have always been hard-working and polite. They all rely on tips as income. I don't ever want to be Mr. Pink (watch the opening of Reservoir Dogs for the tipping scene).
classy entertainment for cheap:
-use restaurant.com to reduce dinner bills
-look for free shows and music in your area. in the summer parks have all sorts of things.
- go to shows at colleges. they are great and inexpensive
-stroll through the park - romantic and sweet - and quality time
-make a homemade meal and rent a movie.
You do have some points.
Really the key is to do your research. You DO learn what is the good deals and what are not. And then you know what to go buy the next time, and what to pass on.
If you don't have someone there who KNOWS the ropes to go with you and hold your hand, it'll take a few trips.
I've done Kmart doubles since July now. July, while I did get good deals. I was not GOOD...
Now I've got it down where I'm getting $30-$50 worth of stuff for $1-$2 in many cases.
I actually had a run on sunday where I had $36 in product and I only paid .11
Knowledge is power :)
As for surplus. I don't have near as much as most of the 'hard core' people do. But I do have more deodorants than I can use before they expire. I haven't yet decided what to do with them. Hubby and I contemplated doing 'hygiene baskets' for family members for christmas. I've contemplated donating to the church. I've contemplated hanging onto it for a little while as a just in case measure should something happen to my husbands job.
Time will tell :)
Sure, you see this phenomenon every place. I buy (and use) those reusable grocery totes at the supermarket and hardware store mostly because I like them better than the flimsy plastic bags--they're bigger, sturdier, more manageable. I certainly don't mind that they are also (maybe) better for the environment, but I don't kid myself that the stores are losing money by SELLING (not giving) them away for the common good. It's one more profit center and one less expense for them.