There's some really good advice here. My husband has just been told he's to be laid off in the New Year and he's still reeling. He feels angry and hurt at the same time especially as some of his collegues are remaining. It's "why me"
I feel you need to let as many people know as possible. So many jobs are not even advertised they are often filled by word of mouth.
Someone has put him on their company job mailing list and he's already had some details come through.
If I gave a priority to these, I'd have to say that your first point of nailing down cash is the absolute most important. If you can cut your spending in half then you've just doubled the amount of time you can go with out work. It isn't hard to do really. The hardest part is breaking old habits and making new ones. It's a daily chore to remind yourself again every day of money saving habits, but it's worth it. Little things are best to start with, like cut out the trip to the convenience store for a snack. Stop renting movies. All these little things add up along with turning off lights,etc. I think self discipline plays a large role here.
The raw population trends have been largely ignored in this discussion. While the population has stayed relatively level like you said, underlying that is an age distribution with a large bubble flowing through it. I have a pdf graph of this census data that might help. I would be happy to forward it but I do not have a means to upload it.
I don't think there's been any fall in the demand for houses for people to live in. The number of households in the US is still growing, and they all have to live somewhere.
There has definitely been a drop in the demand for McMansions in the exurbs, for a lot of different reasons. But I think the biggest drop in demand is that people have quit buying three, four, or five extra houses, hoping to flip them for a quick profit.
That is a fall in demand, but I don't think it's the sort of demographic change you seem to be talking about.
How long of an "inactive" period does it take before they close the account? I don't really plan to use my Amex card since finally paying it off but I still want to have it around in case of an emergency (as in I need to pay for something that can't wait a few days for a transfer from my savings). Oh, and I want to use the points it has accumulated ;)
The economic crisis had occurred as a result of the things that have been spoken of but there is still a significant root cause that has not been mentioned. A market works with supply and demand, sellers and consumers. The problem is that the supply of goods namely housing and big ticket items has now substantially outpaced demand.
Why is there no demand you may ask? The demand has waned because the number of consumers has dropped significantly over the past decade as the baby boomers move out of their life period of conspicuous consumption. They are selling their houses now and doing it all at once. The problem is that there is no where near the same number of buyers coming behind them to pick up the slack.
This crisis has been coming and likely the financial missteps have delayed and exasperated the crisis but there is little that can be done to get out of it other than creating a new economy that is not built upon the U.S. baby boomer. Where is the next consumer and what are they wanting? That is where our long term focus should be.
Gold is more liquid today than the paper market. Though its price keeps fluctuating, investors know that in the long run, they will reap the benefits of investing in such a prime commodity.
Thank you for this. I tend to think of it as: No, buying more big screen teevees on credit cards is NOT the way out of this mess. Not spending quite so much more than we earn is now a bad thing?
The other day, heard a story on the radio w/power companies whining because consumers had cut back on their usage. It's bad for their balance sheets, apparently. Conserving electricity is now a bad thing?
I can't speak much to auto loans. But tuition: Its totally out of control, and often completely disproportionate to the value of the education the student obtains. But I am a heretic, and do not think that education for education's sake should be debt financed, or directly subsidized.
I also recently had a CC account closed by a creditor for inactivity. And I don't, and won't, miss it.
Won't having that credit card "closed" for inactivity damage your credit score? Your credit card is part of your credit history, and by losing that history, your score loses points.
Some of those may be corruption, but others may not be--they may simply be bad or unfair results (which happen all the time, even with no corruption at all).
Take the car accident, for example. Because I ride my bicycle for transportation, I'm very aware of just how lenient the law is with people who have car accidents. Where I live, for example, a woman recently killed a bicyclist when she got distracted downloading ringtones to her phone and swerved onto the shoulder. She wasn't charged with negligent homicide, though; she was charged with improper lane usage and fined $1000.
The bicycling community was outraged. The prosecutor, though, said that's how the law was interpreted in Illinois--and I believe it, because I've seen this happen before. And it's not due to corruption. It's due to the fact that almost everyone is a driver. Anyone who has driven more than a few thousand miles has made a mistake that could have caused a serious accident. Most of those accidents were avoided--but only because some other driver was alert and prevented it. Because of that, every judge, every lawyer, every police officer, and (especially) every jury member knows that it could have been them accidentally injuring or killing someone. That makes them quite willing to go easy on people who cause car accidents (as long as they weren't under the influence, and as long as they don't have a long history of causing accidents).
Similarly with the job action--maybe corruption, but maybe just coming up with the cheapest way to deal with unsatisfactory behavior by employees. I've worked places where having sex on the job might well not have gotten anyone fired.
It's corruption when people get favorable treatment because they're rich or have the right skin color or right last name or look pretty or offer cash or favors of one kind or another--and any of your examples may well have been a result of corruption. But any of them might not have been. Pointing to poor folks or folks who belong to the wrong ethnic group who don't get such favorable treatment is suggestive, but even that isn't proof of corruption.
Having said all that, I agree with you that people in power need to be held to a higher standard than they are. I just think that unfair results don't prove corruption.
One of the major reasons why we're in the financial mess we're in is easy credit. Greenspan, in particular, left rates too low for too long. Like grain alcohol in the punch bowl, it had an effect.
The only way to go back to the 'good-ol'-days' of pre-2006 is to re-ignite the economy with easy credit again. So the thinking goes.
The problem is this: what if loans were available but no one wanted them? I know plenty of people who qualify for good loans - car loans, home loans, business loans - but are not taking them. Sure credit is jammed up, but if it wasn't would it make any difference as we lurch into a deep recession?
People are uncertain now about the future. They are pulling inward; trying to save and not spend too much.
This is something the punditry doesn't like to talk about.
Thanks! I've edited the article to reflect your discovery. I was wondering if that's what was intended, but didn't want to question someone with better ideas than my own. I appreciate the catch!
I have used the space heater suggestion. We lived in a rental home for a year that had electric heat built into the wall. I LOVED it for when I gave the newborn a bath (he got so chilly in that old house.) Now that we live in our own old farm home, I do put a space heater in the tiny bathroom for a minute or two before I hop in the shower. You're right.. I don't dread getting out so much. And it helps save hot water for the next person.
I also really want to get a tankless heater for directly underneath the sinks. They are a bit spendy, but I figure it will be a good deal in the long run. Sediment blows our traditional heaters within 6-12 months from each time we fix them.
One option to help cover costs is the use of a medical credit card, but you have to be careful. I have a Care Credit care (through GE Money) and it has been very useful. Generally, I set up the amount of my total annual dental costs after insurance (Delta Dental is a good insurance) in my flexible spending account. When I go to the dentist, anything I have to pay is put on Care Credit, and then I pay off the card when I'm reimbursed from my flexible spending account. The few times I've had to use it when I didn't have the amount in flex spending, I just divided the total amount by the number of months without interest. Each dentist (vet, doctor, etc) who accepts it will give you a period of months where you don't have to pay any interest. I ALWAYS pay it off in full before the promotional period ends, and so wind up getting to make payments on necessary dental work without paying any interest. But, if you don't pay it off before the promotional period ends, then they charge you high interest (25% or more) and charge you interest for the entire promotional period.
In the beginning when i started working in customer service i was very nice until i started to see how selfish, arrogant some people are, some of those people think you owe them something, or they act is if they are doing you a favor. You can say have a nice day to some customers and they flat out say uh huh or nothing.
People are not nice in customer service is because they may have dealt with a few jerks ahead of the time you came in, we are only human at the end of the day.
When i work on my job i expect no results, i take my day as it comes, i try to nice, sometimes customers are annoying.
We as a country have to learn how to live within our means again. Only then can we regain the footing that has made the US such a successful country. The debt that was taken on in the past has to be repaid at some point in time. The time is now.
My kids love to use instant potatoes as part of a family favorite. "Hot Dog Boats" or really unhealthy, glow in the dark, oh my veins are clogging boats.
Make up some potatoes, enough for 8 people
two pkgs. hot dogs, beef in our kosher home
seasoned salt
1 cup shredded cheese or enough slices of processed cheese to cover.
1. Slice hot dogs length wise, and lay out on a cookie sheet.
2. Stuff the hot dogs with the instant potatoes.
3. Strinkle with the seasoned salt.
4. Cover with cheese.
5. Bake at 350 degrees until cheese is melted, about 25 minutes.
I haven't personally had any trouble getting credit, and I"m sure many Wise Bread readers wouldn't have the problem either.
However, I have been watching Suze Orman every Saturday and it does seem that a lot of people ARE having trouble getting credit. There are probably a lot of people that would like to consolidate their CC balances to a lower interest card and that isn't an option anymore.
I don't really agree with the bailout plan because much like the first one, it does nothing to discourage the borrowing and lending practices that got us into trouble in the first place. I also think that people might be a bit cautious right now and are probably a little reluctant to buy buy buy.
Came here to second the shepard's pie idea. So simple, and the spices and ingredients have basically already been cooked. I like making mini pies and freezing them individually for later.
And you just can't beat a good 'ole turkey sandwich.
It is important that we conserve, for saving money for us now, and for it to be there for future generations. We forget that water isn't infinite. We have grown up living that it is, and that we don't need to plant a tree when we take one, to replenish what we use, for later. It is a sad thing when you see a area where trees were at one time, and are no more. Look at the middle east, and other countries that use to have the stuff we have, and don't any more. I read on another blog where it was mentioned that he didn't save that much, but it is more than about how much you can save. There is only so much fresh drinking water on this planet.
recycling paper, carton and glass is sort of easy because you can just store it till you get an opportunity to drive by a container (maybe you can find one somewhere in your nearby city?) and just drop it. It won't stink in your basement or garage.
Of course it is a little hassle but the amount of trash you produce will decrease dramatically.
Reducing debt should be a priority and I think you are right that people don't need more credit but rather more adjusting. Unfortunately I think the process of adjusting to living within ones means will be very painful for Americans as a group.
Even if GM goes bankrupt and all the jobs get lost things will find the way to balance themselves; the question is always how long it will take for them to do so.
I still believe it is just time to bite the bullet.
The wall that was approved and funded to be built on the boarder of Mexico and the United States is real. The only problem is that it was a sham. They approved of it and set funding aside for it so that the people of the USA would shut up about boarder control, because it's something that is worrisome to the people of the U.S.
They began building it but only built roughly four miles of this wall so that they could tell the people and show them there was in fact a wall and they (the government) were doing their jobs to protect the boarder of the U.S.A.
The reason they didn't go through with finishing this wall is it would be counter productive for them to build something that is going to be pointless within the next five years. The Amero already is in existence, in fact I've read reports of China receiving Eight hundred billion of the Amero's from our Denver ment. I find it funny that i read about China receiving this amount of the Amero about a month ago and tonight on NPR i heard that the U.S. Government is going to be going forward with a Eight hundred billion dollar bail out plan... Kinda interesting... When they asked where all of that money was going to come from for the government to hand out like that they said that it would come from other countries buying Government bonds or whatnot.
Here's a scary thought for anyone who has ever bought a car.
When you take out a loan for your car, who owns it? you get to use the car and you have to take care of the car but the car really belongs to the lean holder... so. When you take out a loan for your country, who owns the country? you get to use the country and you have to take care of it, but at the end of the day, who owns it?
The Amero is going to happen whether we like it or not, and no-one is going to take the name before us because we already have it, it's just not in circulation yet. It's only a matter of time. Probably within the next year or two in my opinion.
And Kris AKA #48.
I agree with what you had to say and I believe that what you said and what I had said earlier go hand in hand and that my friend is a very scary thing.
Sigurd.
United States Citizen. Born and Raised. Life without Freedom is simply existing.
Are you joking? This past summer I had nothing but problems with T-Mobile's lackadaisical customer service. So much happened that eventually they started to ignore my emails completely (yes, I was calling them too; like I said, a lot was going on) and I decided to break the service contracst to move on. Absolutely clueless, nothing but problems and it culminated this past summer...I couldn't take it anymore. Did I mention that the coverage I got was pretty shoddy? I could get a good signal where I lived, but not at any of my jobs or my parents' house!
There's some really good advice here. My husband has just been told he's to be laid off in the New Year and he's still reeling. He feels angry and hurt at the same time especially as some of his collegues are remaining. It's "why me"
I feel you need to let as many people know as possible. So many jobs are not even advertised they are often filled by word of mouth.
Someone has put him on their company job mailing list and he's already had some details come through.
If I gave a priority to these, I'd have to say that your first point of nailing down cash is the absolute most important. If you can cut your spending in half then you've just doubled the amount of time you can go with out work. It isn't hard to do really. The hardest part is breaking old habits and making new ones. It's a daily chore to remind yourself again every day of money saving habits, but it's worth it. Little things are best to start with, like cut out the trip to the convenience store for a snack. Stop renting movies. All these little things add up along with turning off lights,etc. I think self discipline plays a large role here.
Philip
The raw population trends have been largely ignored in this discussion. While the population has stayed relatively level like you said, underlying that is an age distribution with a large bubble flowing through it. I have a pdf graph of this census data that might help. I would be happy to forward it but I do not have a means to upload it.
k
I don't think there's been any fall in the demand for houses for people to live in. The number of households in the US is still growing, and they all have to live somewhere.
There has definitely been a drop in the demand for McMansions in the exurbs, for a lot of different reasons. But I think the biggest drop in demand is that people have quit buying three, four, or five extra houses, hoping to flip them for a quick profit.
That is a fall in demand, but I don't think it's the sort of demographic change you seem to be talking about.
Hmmm
How long of an "inactive" period does it take before they close the account? I don't really plan to use my Amex card since finally paying it off but I still want to have it around in case of an emergency (as in I need to pay for something that can't wait a few days for a transfer from my savings). Oh, and I want to use the points it has accumulated ;)
The economic crisis had occurred as a result of the things that have been spoken of but there is still a significant root cause that has not been mentioned. A market works with supply and demand, sellers and consumers. The problem is that the supply of goods namely housing and big ticket items has now substantially outpaced demand.
Why is there no demand you may ask? The demand has waned because the number of consumers has dropped significantly over the past decade as the baby boomers move out of their life period of conspicuous consumption. They are selling their houses now and doing it all at once. The problem is that there is no where near the same number of buyers coming behind them to pick up the slack.
This crisis has been coming and likely the financial missteps have delayed and exasperated the crisis but there is little that can be done to get out of it other than creating a new economy that is not built upon the U.S. baby boomer. Where is the next consumer and what are they wanting? That is where our long term focus should be.
Try this information for an insight into what the core root is.
http://www.thegreatbustahead.com/
k
Gold is more liquid today than the paper market. Though its price keeps fluctuating, investors know that in the long run, they will reap the benefits of investing in such a prime commodity.
Thank you for this. I tend to think of it as: No, buying more big screen teevees on credit cards is NOT the way out of this mess. Not spending quite so much more than we earn is now a bad thing?
The other day, heard a story on the radio w/power companies whining because consumers had cut back on their usage. It's bad for their balance sheets, apparently. Conserving electricity is now a bad thing?
I can't speak much to auto loans. But tuition: Its totally out of control, and often completely disproportionate to the value of the education the student obtains. But I am a heretic, and do not think that education for education's sake should be debt financed, or directly subsidized.
I also recently had a CC account closed by a creditor for inactivity. And I don't, and won't, miss it.
erm..guest.. i didn't close the credit card.. the credit card company did it for inactivity. It doesn't affect your score as much as you think.
Won't having that credit card "closed" for inactivity damage your credit score? Your credit card is part of your credit history, and by losing that history, your score loses points.
Tsk, tsk.
@Jesse:
Some of those may be corruption, but others may not be--they may simply be bad or unfair results (which happen all the time, even with no corruption at all).
Take the car accident, for example. Because I ride my bicycle for transportation, I'm very aware of just how lenient the law is with people who have car accidents. Where I live, for example, a woman recently killed a bicyclist when she got distracted downloading ringtones to her phone and swerved onto the shoulder. She wasn't charged with negligent homicide, though; she was charged with improper lane usage and fined $1000.
The bicycling community was outraged. The prosecutor, though, said that's how the law was interpreted in Illinois--and I believe it, because I've seen this happen before. And it's not due to corruption. It's due to the fact that almost everyone is a driver. Anyone who has driven more than a few thousand miles has made a mistake that could have caused a serious accident. Most of those accidents were avoided--but only because some other driver was alert and prevented it. Because of that, every judge, every lawyer, every police officer, and (especially) every jury member knows that it could have been them accidentally injuring or killing someone. That makes them quite willing to go easy on people who cause car accidents (as long as they weren't under the influence, and as long as they don't have a long history of causing accidents).
Similarly with the job action--maybe corruption, but maybe just coming up with the cheapest way to deal with unsatisfactory behavior by employees. I've worked places where having sex on the job might well not have gotten anyone fired.
It's corruption when people get favorable treatment because they're rich or have the right skin color or right last name or look pretty or offer cash or favors of one kind or another--and any of your examples may well have been a result of corruption. But any of them might not have been. Pointing to poor folks or folks who belong to the wrong ethnic group who don't get such favorable treatment is suggestive, but even that isn't proof of corruption.
Having said all that, I agree with you that people in power need to be held to a higher standard than they are. I just think that unfair results don't prove corruption.
One of the major reasons why we're in the financial mess we're in is easy credit. Greenspan, in particular, left rates too low for too long. Like grain alcohol in the punch bowl, it had an effect.
The only way to go back to the 'good-ol'-days' of pre-2006 is to re-ignite the economy with easy credit again. So the thinking goes.
The problem is this: what if loans were available but no one wanted them? I know plenty of people who qualify for good loans - car loans, home loans, business loans - but are not taking them. Sure credit is jammed up, but if it wasn't would it make any difference as we lurch into a deep recession?
People are uncertain now about the future. They are pulling inward; trying to save and not spend too much.
This is something the punditry doesn't like to talk about.
Thanks! I've edited the article to reflect your discovery. I was wondering if that's what was intended, but didn't want to question someone with better ideas than my own. I appreciate the catch!
Linsey Knerl
I have used the space heater suggestion. We lived in a rental home for a year that had electric heat built into the wall. I LOVED it for when I gave the newborn a bath (he got so chilly in that old house.) Now that we live in our own old farm home, I do put a space heater in the tiny bathroom for a minute or two before I hop in the shower. You're right.. I don't dread getting out so much. And it helps save hot water for the next person.
I also really want to get a tankless heater for directly underneath the sinks. They are a bit spendy, but I figure it will be a good deal in the long run. Sediment blows our traditional heaters within 6-12 months from each time we fix them.
Linsey Knerl
One option to help cover costs is the use of a medical credit card, but you have to be careful. I have a Care Credit care (through GE Money) and it has been very useful. Generally, I set up the amount of my total annual dental costs after insurance (Delta Dental is a good insurance) in my flexible spending account. When I go to the dentist, anything I have to pay is put on Care Credit, and then I pay off the card when I'm reimbursed from my flexible spending account. The few times I've had to use it when I didn't have the amount in flex spending, I just divided the total amount by the number of months without interest. Each dentist (vet, doctor, etc) who accepts it will give you a period of months where you don't have to pay any interest. I ALWAYS pay it off in full before the promotional period ends, and so wind up getting to make payments on necessary dental work without paying any interest. But, if you don't pay it off before the promotional period ends, then they charge you high interest (25% or more) and charge you interest for the entire promotional period.
In the beginning when i started working in customer service i was very nice until i started to see how selfish, arrogant some people are, some of those people think you owe them something, or they act is if they are doing you a favor. You can say have a nice day to some customers and they flat out say uh huh or nothing.
People are not nice in customer service is because they may have dealt with a few jerks ahead of the time you came in, we are only human at the end of the day.
When i work on my job i expect no results, i take my day as it comes, i try to nice, sometimes customers are annoying.
We as a country have to learn how to live within our means again. Only then can we regain the footing that has made the US such a successful country. The debt that was taken on in the past has to be repaid at some point in time. The time is now.
My kids love to use instant potatoes as part of a family favorite. "Hot Dog Boats" or really unhealthy, glow in the dark, oh my veins are clogging boats.
Make up some potatoes, enough for 8 people
two pkgs. hot dogs, beef in our kosher home
seasoned salt
1 cup shredded cheese or enough slices of processed cheese to cover.
1. Slice hot dogs length wise, and lay out on a cookie sheet.
2. Stuff the hot dogs with the instant potatoes.
3. Strinkle with the seasoned salt.
4. Cover with cheese.
5. Bake at 350 degrees until cheese is melted, about 25 minutes.
Eat with ketchup and a salad on the side.
I haven't personally had any trouble getting credit, and I"m sure many Wise Bread readers wouldn't have the problem either.
However, I have been watching Suze Orman every Saturday and it does seem that a lot of people ARE having trouble getting credit. There are probably a lot of people that would like to consolidate their CC balances to a lower interest card and that isn't an option anymore.
I don't really agree with the bailout plan because much like the first one, it does nothing to discourage the borrowing and lending practices that got us into trouble in the first place. I also think that people might be a bit cautious right now and are probably a little reluctant to buy buy buy.
Came here to second the shepard's pie idea. So simple, and the spices and ingredients have basically already been cooked. I like making mini pies and freezing them individually for later.
And you just can't beat a good 'ole turkey sandwich.
It is important that we conserve, for saving money for us now, and for it to be there for future generations. We forget that water isn't infinite. We have grown up living that it is, and that we don't need to plant a tree when we take one, to replenish what we use, for later. It is a sad thing when you see a area where trees were at one time, and are no more. Look at the middle east, and other countries that use to have the stuff we have, and don't any more. I read on another blog where it was mentioned that he didn't save that much, but it is more than about how much you can save. There is only so much fresh drinking water on this planet.
recycling paper, carton and glass is sort of easy because you can just store it till you get an opportunity to drive by a container (maybe you can find one somewhere in your nearby city?) and just drop it. It won't stink in your basement or garage.
Of course it is a little hassle but the amount of trash you produce will decrease dramatically.
Reducing debt should be a priority and I think you are right that people don't need more credit but rather more adjusting. Unfortunately I think the process of adjusting to living within ones means will be very painful for Americans as a group.
Even if GM goes bankrupt and all the jobs get lost things will find the way to balance themselves; the question is always how long it will take for them to do so.
I still believe it is just time to bite the bullet.
The wall that was approved and funded to be built on the boarder of Mexico and the United States is real. The only problem is that it was a sham. They approved of it and set funding aside for it so that the people of the USA would shut up about boarder control, because it's something that is worrisome to the people of the U.S.
They began building it but only built roughly four miles of this wall so that they could tell the people and show them there was in fact a wall and they (the government) were doing their jobs to protect the boarder of the U.S.A.
The reason they didn't go through with finishing this wall is it would be counter productive for them to build something that is going to be pointless within the next five years. The Amero already is in existence, in fact I've read reports of China receiving Eight hundred billion of the Amero's from our Denver ment. I find it funny that i read about China receiving this amount of the Amero about a month ago and tonight on NPR i heard that the U.S. Government is going to be going forward with a Eight hundred billion dollar bail out plan... Kinda interesting... When they asked where all of that money was going to come from for the government to hand out like that they said that it would come from other countries buying Government bonds or whatnot.
Here's a scary thought for anyone who has ever bought a car.
When you take out a loan for your car, who owns it? you get to use the car and you have to take care of the car but the car really belongs to the lean holder... so. When you take out a loan for your country, who owns the country? you get to use the country and you have to take care of it, but at the end of the day, who owns it?
The Amero is going to happen whether we like it or not, and no-one is going to take the name before us because we already have it, it's just not in circulation yet. It's only a matter of time. Probably within the next year or two in my opinion.
And Kris AKA #48.
I agree with what you had to say and I believe that what you said and what I had said earlier go hand in hand and that my friend is a very scary thing.
Sigurd.
United States Citizen. Born and Raised. Life without Freedom is simply existing.
Are you joking? This past summer I had nothing but problems with T-Mobile's lackadaisical customer service. So much happened that eventually they started to ignore my emails completely (yes, I was calling them too; like I said, a lot was going on) and I decided to break the service contracst to move on. Absolutely clueless, nothing but problems and it culminated this past summer...I couldn't take it anymore. Did I mention that the coverage I got was pretty shoddy? I could get a good signal where I lived, but not at any of my jobs or my parents' house!