basic survival skills. I enjoy watching Les Stroud, Survivorman, and he always seems to find a way to boil water in the most severe conditions. He also did a special on surviving a flood, after Katrina. Well worth a watch.
We used a small coleman camp stove w/ the small propane tanks to boil water, make coffee, cook, etc. when Hurricane Isabel hit and we were without power for about a week. We had also filled up the bathtub so we could flush the toilets when necessary (something people on city water who don't have to worry about their well pump not working when the power is out do not have to do).
I grew up in a small rural town with not a lot of everything. I have worked pretty hard for what I have now.
I tend to be frugal with my money. My husband and I both have good incomes, and most people we know simply spend a LOT more than we do. They grew up more middle class - eat out more, drive nicer cars, buy expensive furniture. While I don't feel bad about my small, old house...it can be hard. Especially when the "social" thing seems to be eating out. That gets expensive, but also being the "host" to dinners in can be too.
Anyway, I know where the author is coming from. People think I'm weird for going to garage sales or getting clothing from thrift stores. At home, it's a way of life.
Leaving the corporate job and choosing to live in an "ending" community lets me ignore the "keep up with the Joneses" pressure.
My neighbors are mostly retirees who don't care about conspicuous consumption - they've left their big houses for easy townhouse living - if there are "starter" houses, these are "ending" houses - they all LOVE my young kids.
The peers I have left know I had to leave my Fortune 500 job to care for an ill parent, and that there was some significant under/unemployment involved with that decision.
What they don't know is my current income isn't really any less than in the corporate job, but I'm not having to wear a different $500 suit every day of the week (or have the new car)
Or commute any appreciable distance in my $2000 beater - that's a big negative of rural living - driving and more driving to get anywhere.
Here in the city I'm never more than 10 miles away from work or home - even if my dirt cheap car self-destructs, a cab will get me anywhere I need to be.
I think that letters work best because when it comes civil law a paper-trail is a must. Companies know that, if pushed far enough, disgruntled consumers may lodge court cases (or contact regulatory bodies) for faulty, mis-sold or deficient products or services.
Something I would recommend is to address the letter to the chief executive of the company. Whilst he or she is unlikely to personally read it, many large companies take the fact that a customer has had to complain to the chief exec quite seriously and in some cases have a dedicated department to deal with these complaints with better tools at their disposal for resolution.
Remember though that if you're going to send a letter to complain then be sure to make it to the point, courteous and clear what resolution you are expecting. Also ensure that you send the letter by recorded delivery as this will allow you to confirm that it has been received.
Denmark has a name for work happiness and India has loss of a relationship leave. America used to be at the forefront of wooing our employees and I believe we are falling behind. Ford paid his employees 4 times the national average back when the model T was in it's beginning stages.
Hopefully we recognize this trend and the companies, not the government, see the potential in making work happy and fun.
I grew up in a rural Maine town. I never full understood the meaining of the term "keeping up with the Jonses" until my wife and I moved to Boston and started hanging out with "more sophisticated" friends. It was a hoot watching these people trying to out do one another with their cars.
Even more amazing was that my wife and I made as much if not more than most of these people and just the thought of financing or leasing a brand new Lexus.
Apparently some members of U.S. Congress agree with Andrea, as reported by the Wall Street Journal: that is, some credit card practices are predatory and unfair. The Federal Reserve Board is accepting comments on credit card regulations -- go here to view comments or submit your own comments.
I think it is odd that a company can create an agreement that says that it can change all the rules at a moment's notice, without fully substantiating why it is changing the agreement (e.g., Fed rate has changed).
but it's something I never forgot - "we measure our happiness (or our misery) by our surroundings.
If you're living in a nice 2 bedroom apartment and everyone else around you has a studio apartment, you feel like you're doing well. Put that same 2 bedroom apartment next to 5 bedroom mansions, and you don't feel so good.
I've been at my present company for over 11 years. I've been with the same boss for 20+ years. He decided to take a sabbatical about 2 years ago. The boogerhead that took the boss's place treats all the long term people like idiots. (He seems to think we're dumb for staying in one place and not jumping every 2 years?) He has rubbed our noses in how much more he's paying his new hires than he pays us "dinosaurs." I laughed my a$$ off when the IT department all walked within days of each other, until the boogerhead called me into his office and told me that since I had managed IT 5 years ago, he would be demoting me back down to that position until they could hire new people, oh, and no guarantee that I'll get my current position back. I'm now making what I made in 2002 and definitely searching for a different job even though the old boss gets back next month.
I like your post Linsey. It's or life is really about happiness. In the US I live in a gated community, with the $50 mailbox, no fences, the right color, etc on the house. But I work overseas in Indonesia, with lots of poverty, malnutrition, etc and a society that really is based on haves and have nots. I tend to look at the children, playing, living in squalor, but smiling, laughing, and appearing to be happy. But the minute they can work or contribute, life for them changes. It really hurts to see these children become part of the workforce at 6 years old. So this dose of reality to me. ie where i was born, prepares me when I fly home, I do not worry about the Jones, Indonesia keeps me and my perspective on what I really need in line with reality of the world for billions of people. I am very thankful that I was not born in Africa, Sri Lanka, or other poverty stricken countries.Everyone should witness this different life style once, on the ground and up close. That view could change the view of keeping up with the Jones to being happy whether its rural or urban.
I agree that as a confident adult, I should be able to look past the "Joneses". That being said, it's one thing to have a few friends who have more than you. I found myself in trouble, when ALL of my daily contacts (co-workers, neighbors, friends, etc.) were living a lifestyle way beyond the one I grew up with. I considered this a different culture altogether, and one that I wasn't particularly comfortable with.
Since it usually is just a matter of perspective, people can grow and adapt to find balance in whatever situation they are in. On the flip side, I see cases of peer pressure forcing those with modest intentions into buying more than they can afford. An example of this was a housing community I lived in once. The houses were all very nice. The residents were professionals making much more than me. I could easily afford the rent, utilities, etc, but I felt pressure to "keep up" with various community "codes" that were enforced. (Mailboxes had to be made from certain materials, lawns needed to be manicured a particular way, signage had to conform to the suggested decor, etc.) All of this was very costly and unnecessary in my opinion. But when you live on a block full of "Joneses" you're pretty much going to be outvoted on some issues.
This, of course, is the exception and not the rule, and my "Jones" may not be someone else's. Thanks again for such great comments!
Am I the only one who has no problem with "the Joneses"? Some of my friends make more/spend more than me, but I've never felt the need to "keep up". One of my best friends is the epitome of "the Jones" he has a 2 bed condo (to himself) downtown, drives a new Audi and buys his suits when on holiday in Italy.
I on the other hand ride the bus to work, and share a small one bed apartment with my partner.
I really am not concerned with how he spends his money and he certainly doesn't seem bothered by the fact that I try not to spend mine.
I'd hate to feel we couldn't be friends or that I'd need to move away from him. I guess I really don't get this peer pressure to spend- it's not like we're 14 and the cool kids are offering us a cigarette.
We just moved from SoCal to New Mexico and cut our expenses in half. Sure, there was a one time jump in expenses for the move, but now that we are here, I can see how much lower our expenses are than they were last week. We are in our new house and we love the change of pace!
I would be VERY bored out here without my kids and husband. I also need to have connectivity with the rest of the world. I love farm living for its simplicity in some ways, but I could never leave technology behind. Plus I love having big BBQ's and get-togethers with my friends. And I still get into the city for dining, shopping, and theatre. I can't leave EVERYTHING behind.. :)
Hmmm, I don't know... I myself feel the experience of going to the rural life quite tempting, but after a while I feel kinda bored... I guess I'm used to the hectic city life...
I couldn't agree more. For some, living in the city is the best way to save. (Especially if you're a sucker for some of the "trappings" that rural life holds.) I know people that move to the country to save money, but spend more on things that they think they have to have, but don't. (Which is why I tried to say in my last paragraph that you have to do what works for you, city or country.)
I hope you don't think I was "slamming" city-life. It just wasn't for me (although I LOVE to vacation there.) I know others that will find the reverse to be true. The "Joneses" could live anywhere, I think.
I've seen a number of anti-city posts on frugal living resources recently and I think they're a little one-sided. For one thing, big cities offer a lot more job opportunities, so your choices are greater and salaries usually higher. Secondly, you can often skip out on driving, which saves not only on gas, but on a car, insurance, repair, etc. It's hard to beat an "all you can eat" public transportation system for $96/month (I live in NYC). And most cities offer an amazing array of free entertainment, with plays in the park, free movie screenings, amply stocked libraries and so on. You can also take advantage of all sorts of cheap ethnic restaurants, street vendors, fairs, and the like. In the end, there are always Jones to keep up with. It's up to you to decide how to handle that, and while some people may enjoy a rural lifestyle, others will find themselves eminently more successful and financially well-off in an urban environment.
I recently had unacceptable service at the car dealer. I spoke directly to my service advisor and received several promises of which 3 of the 4 were not met. When I emailed I received a call and all will be taken care of on the 12th of July. I believe that whether it is an email or a letter, clearly articulating your position gets results.
While I had reasons to move other than just leaving the rat race, I find that my materialism isn't an issue much anymore. And if you don't want to move "physically", you can still remove yourself from situations where there is pressure to spend. Friends that can't respect your frugality aren't worth your time and concern, in my opinion.
I had a watch that needed the glass face repaired and a new wrist band (the latch system locked up and I could never take the watch off my wrist). The watch company uses a fashion retail chain in Australia as their rep so I had to go through the store to place it for repairs. After three months of dealing with the store sending the watch and returning it with nothing done (and eventually just the glass face fixed) and their continual blaming of the watch retailer, I sent letters to both the watch company and head office of the retail store. The watch company emailed me within a day of receipt, they sent a courier to pick my watch up on friday, fixed it for free over the weekend (saving me $150 in repairs), sent it to my home address instead of the retail store by monday. They also sent a gift pack with a free hat, tshirt and wallet that I still use (pretty fashionable :D).
The retail store wrote back to me with a $100 voucher. Then a few weeks later I was contacted by the NEW store manger of the particular shop I took my watch (old guy was probably fired or moved for incompetency). He asked for the whole story and how they could fix it and then said I could come in and look at their range of converse shoes and take any pair that I wanted for free (about $80). All up a $150 repair was done for nothing and I got about $200-$300 worth of free stuff. very nice.
I've also had vouchers from coca cola, from the guys that make linx deoderant and a few other things I can't remember.
I never complain just for something free, only when I believe the service has not been up to scratch.
Who cares really? The only responsible use of credit card is to pay your balances in full by the end of the grace period. Anybody with an ounce of common sense shall understand it. The only exception would be a real emergency, and by emergency I mean unexpected and unpaid medical or legal bills, not just usual "life" stuff.
I couldn't care less if they raise my rate to 99.9%. I am not paying it. In fact, if someone gives me a card that charges 99.9% but gives 50% cashback, I'll take it.
To someone who mentioned getting credit history - nobody tells you you have to carry a balance to get credit history. Using a card then paying your balance IN FULL before the interest occurs will result in even better credit history.
As to those with medical bills, if they had been responsible and have good credit, and their card raises interest rate, there is nothing to prevent them from transferring their balance elsewhere. There is still no shortage of "0% for one year" offers. Even with 3% transfer fee, it is still only 3% for the whole year of no interest. A friend of mine was in this situation because of her mother's cancer (the mother was in Russia, there was a drug that allowed her to live a bit longer and have good quality of life but it was expensive). My friend was shuffling her balance from one 0% card to another until she comfortably repaid her debt.
@Jared - people are in trouble the first time they bought something they cannot afford to repay in full. By the time the rate jumps to 21%, they are already in trouble. As to "learning about personal finances" - I grew up in the Soviet Union. I can assure you, there was no "personal finance" education there, not even such a concept. Yet, my lack of knowledge didn't prevent me or even my 40-something parents who couldn't even speak English properly to figure out that if you don't pay your full credit card balance by the due date, you pay high interest. OK, 21% is more than 10%, but even 10% is wasted money at current bank savings rates. It isn't rocket science of "finance", it is plain common sense. If you earn taxable 4% on your savings, paying more than 4%-taxes in interest to somebody else is wasted money. It was totally obvious to my parents, yet Americans who have no problems with English complain about "fine print". The information about the grace period and interest is not in fine print - it is usually nicely summarized in a table.
basic survival skills. I enjoy watching Les Stroud, Survivorman, and he always seems to find a way to boil water in the most severe conditions. He also did a special on surviving a flood, after Katrina. Well worth a watch.
We used a small coleman camp stove w/ the small propane tanks to boil water, make coffee, cook, etc. when Hurricane Isabel hit and we were without power for about a week. We had also filled up the bathtub so we could flush the toilets when necessary (something people on city water who don't have to worry about their well pump not working when the power is out do not have to do).
I grew up in a small rural town with not a lot of everything. I have worked pretty hard for what I have now.
I tend to be frugal with my money. My husband and I both have good incomes, and most people we know simply spend a LOT more than we do. They grew up more middle class - eat out more, drive nicer cars, buy expensive furniture. While I don't feel bad about my small, old house...it can be hard. Especially when the "social" thing seems to be eating out. That gets expensive, but also being the "host" to dinners in can be too.
Anyway, I know where the author is coming from. People think I'm weird for going to garage sales or getting clothing from thrift stores. At home, it's a way of life.
Leaving the corporate job and choosing to live in an "ending" community lets me ignore the "keep up with the Joneses" pressure.
My neighbors are mostly retirees who don't care about conspicuous consumption - they've left their big houses for easy townhouse living - if there are "starter" houses, these are "ending" houses - they all LOVE my young kids.
The peers I have left know I had to leave my Fortune 500 job to care for an ill parent, and that there was some significant under/unemployment involved with that decision.
What they don't know is my current income isn't really any less than in the corporate job, but I'm not having to wear a different $500 suit every day of the week (or have the new car)
Or commute any appreciable distance in my $2000 beater - that's a big negative of rural living - driving and more driving to get anywhere.
Here in the city I'm never more than 10 miles away from work or home - even if my dirt cheap car self-destructs, a cab will get me anywhere I need to be.
I think that letters work best because when it comes civil law a paper-trail is a must. Companies know that, if pushed far enough, disgruntled consumers may lodge court cases (or contact regulatory bodies) for faulty, mis-sold or deficient products or services.
Something I would recommend is to address the letter to the chief executive of the company. Whilst he or she is unlikely to personally read it, many large companies take the fact that a customer has had to complain to the chief exec quite seriously and in some cases have a dedicated department to deal with these complaints with better tools at their disposal for resolution.
Remember though that if you're going to send a letter to complain then be sure to make it to the point, courteous and clear what resolution you are expecting. Also ensure that you send the letter by recorded delivery as this will allow you to confirm that it has been received.
Denmark has a name for work happiness and India has loss of a relationship leave. America used to be at the forefront of wooing our employees and I believe we are falling behind. Ford paid his employees 4 times the national average back when the model T was in it's beginning stages.
Hopefully we recognize this trend and the companies, not the government, see the potential in making work happy and fun.
Great article and thanks for the link love.
You've pretty much summarized my life as well!
I grew up in a rural Maine town. I never full understood the meaining of the term "keeping up with the Jonses" until my wife and I moved to Boston and started hanging out with "more sophisticated" friends. It was a hoot watching these people trying to out do one another with their cars.
Even more amazing was that my wife and I made as much if not more than most of these people and just the thought of financing or leasing a brand new Lexus.
Linsey,
Great post, I can totally relate. Look forward to returning back to my rural roots.
I posted a link to the article on my site (www.cheaperversion.com)
Chris
Apparently some members of U.S. Congress agree with Andrea, as reported by the Wall Street Journal: that is, some credit card practices are predatory and unfair. The Federal Reserve Board is accepting comments on credit card regulations -- go here to view comments or submit your own comments.
I think it is odd that a company can create an agreement that says that it can change all the rules at a moment's notice, without fully substantiating why it is changing the agreement (e.g., Fed rate has changed).
but it's something I never forgot - "we measure our happiness (or our misery) by our surroundings.
If you're living in a nice 2 bedroom apartment and everyone else around you has a studio apartment, you feel like you're doing well. Put that same 2 bedroom apartment next to 5 bedroom mansions, and you don't feel so good.
Great post Linsey. Perspective is everything.
I've been at my present company for over 11 years. I've been with the same boss for 20+ years. He decided to take a sabbatical about 2 years ago. The boogerhead that took the boss's place treats all the long term people like idiots. (He seems to think we're dumb for staying in one place and not jumping every 2 years?) He has rubbed our noses in how much more he's paying his new hires than he pays us "dinosaurs." I laughed my a$$ off when the IT department all walked within days of each other, until the boogerhead called me into his office and told me that since I had managed IT 5 years ago, he would be demoting me back down to that position until they could hire new people, oh, and no guarantee that I'll get my current position back. I'm now making what I made in 2002 and definitely searching for a different job even though the old boss gets back next month.
wise post. thanks for all the profound advice!
I like your post Linsey. It's or life is really about happiness. In the US I live in a gated community, with the $50 mailbox, no fences, the right color, etc on the house. But I work overseas in Indonesia, with lots of poverty, malnutrition, etc and a society that really is based on haves and have nots. I tend to look at the children, playing, living in squalor, but smiling, laughing, and appearing to be happy. But the minute they can work or contribute, life for them changes. It really hurts to see these children become part of the workforce at 6 years old. So this dose of reality to me. ie where i was born, prepares me when I fly home, I do not worry about the Jones, Indonesia keeps me and my perspective on what I really need in line with reality of the world for billions of people. I am very thankful that I was not born in Africa, Sri Lanka, or other poverty stricken countries.Everyone should witness this different life style once, on the ground and up close. That view could change the view of keeping up with the Jones to being happy whether its rural or urban.
L-
I agree that as a confident adult, I should be able to look past the "Joneses". That being said, it's one thing to have a few friends who have more than you. I found myself in trouble, when ALL of my daily contacts (co-workers, neighbors, friends, etc.) were living a lifestyle way beyond the one I grew up with. I considered this a different culture altogether, and one that I wasn't particularly comfortable with.
Since it usually is just a matter of perspective, people can grow and adapt to find balance in whatever situation they are in. On the flip side, I see cases of peer pressure forcing those with modest intentions into buying more than they can afford. An example of this was a housing community I lived in once. The houses were all very nice. The residents were professionals making much more than me. I could easily afford the rent, utilities, etc, but I felt pressure to "keep up" with various community "codes" that were enforced. (Mailboxes had to be made from certain materials, lawns needed to be manicured a particular way, signage had to conform to the suggested decor, etc.) All of this was very costly and unnecessary in my opinion. But when you live on a block full of "Joneses" you're pretty much going to be outvoted on some issues.
This, of course, is the exception and not the rule, and my "Jones" may not be someone else's. Thanks again for such great comments!
Linsey
Am I the only one who has no problem with "the Joneses"? Some of my friends make more/spend more than me, but I've never felt the need to "keep up". One of my best friends is the epitome of "the Jones" he has a 2 bed condo (to himself) downtown, drives a new Audi and buys his suits when on holiday in Italy.
I on the other hand ride the bus to work, and share a small one bed apartment with my partner.
I really am not concerned with how he spends his money and he certainly doesn't seem bothered by the fact that I try not to spend mine.
I'd hate to feel we couldn't be friends or that I'd need to move away from him. I guess I really don't get this peer pressure to spend- it's not like we're 14 and the cool kids are offering us a cigarette.
We just moved from SoCal to New Mexico and cut our expenses in half. Sure, there was a one time jump in expenses for the move, but now that we are here, I can see how much lower our expenses are than they were last week. We are in our new house and we love the change of pace!
I would be VERY bored out here without my kids and husband. I also need to have connectivity with the rest of the world. I love farm living for its simplicity in some ways, but I could never leave technology behind. Plus I love having big BBQ's and get-togethers with my friends. And I still get into the city for dining, shopping, and theatre. I can't leave EVERYTHING behind.. :)
Hmmm, I don't know... I myself feel the experience of going to the rural life quite tempting, but after a while I feel kinda bored... I guess I'm used to the hectic city life...
I couldn't agree more. For some, living in the city is the best way to save. (Especially if you're a sucker for some of the "trappings" that rural life holds.) I know people that move to the country to save money, but spend more on things that they think they have to have, but don't. (Which is why I tried to say in my last paragraph that you have to do what works for you, city or country.)
I hope you don't think I was "slamming" city-life. It just wasn't for me (although I LOVE to vacation there.) I know others that will find the reverse to be true. The "Joneses" could live anywhere, I think.
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences.
Linsey
I've seen a number of anti-city posts on frugal living resources recently and I think they're a little one-sided. For one thing, big cities offer a lot more job opportunities, so your choices are greater and salaries usually higher. Secondly, you can often skip out on driving, which saves not only on gas, but on a car, insurance, repair, etc. It's hard to beat an "all you can eat" public transportation system for $96/month (I live in NYC). And most cities offer an amazing array of free entertainment, with plays in the park, free movie screenings, amply stocked libraries and so on. You can also take advantage of all sorts of cheap ethnic restaurants, street vendors, fairs, and the like. In the end, there are always Jones to keep up with. It's up to you to decide how to handle that, and while some people may enjoy a rural lifestyle, others will find themselves eminently more successful and financially well-off in an urban environment.
that makes a lot of sense, very insightful post.
I recently had unacceptable service at the car dealer. I spoke directly to my service advisor and received several promises of which 3 of the 4 were not met. When I emailed I received a call and all will be taken care of on the 12th of July. I believe that whether it is an email or a letter, clearly articulating your position gets results.
While I had reasons to move other than just leaving the rat race, I find that my materialism isn't an issue much anymore. And if you don't want to move "physically", you can still remove yourself from situations where there is pressure to spend. Friends that can't respect your frugality aren't worth your time and concern, in my opinion.
I had a watch that needed the glass face repaired and a new wrist band (the latch system locked up and I could never take the watch off my wrist). The watch company uses a fashion retail chain in Australia as their rep so I had to go through the store to place it for repairs. After three months of dealing with the store sending the watch and returning it with nothing done (and eventually just the glass face fixed) and their continual blaming of the watch retailer, I sent letters to both the watch company and head office of the retail store. The watch company emailed me within a day of receipt, they sent a courier to pick my watch up on friday, fixed it for free over the weekend (saving me $150 in repairs), sent it to my home address instead of the retail store by monday. They also sent a gift pack with a free hat, tshirt and wallet that I still use (pretty fashionable :D).
The retail store wrote back to me with a $100 voucher. Then a few weeks later I was contacted by the NEW store manger of the particular shop I took my watch (old guy was probably fired or moved for incompetency). He asked for the whole story and how they could fix it and then said I could come in and look at their range of converse shoes and take any pair that I wanted for free (about $80). All up a $150 repair was done for nothing and I got about $200-$300 worth of free stuff. very nice.
I've also had vouchers from coca cola, from the guys that make linx deoderant and a few other things I can't remember.
I never complain just for something free, only when I believe the service has not been up to scratch.
Who cares really? The only responsible use of credit card is to pay your balances in full by the end of the grace period. Anybody with an ounce of common sense shall understand it. The only exception would be a real emergency, and by emergency I mean unexpected and unpaid medical or legal bills, not just usual "life" stuff.
I couldn't care less if they raise my rate to 99.9%. I am not paying it. In fact, if someone gives me a card that charges 99.9% but gives 50% cashback, I'll take it.
To someone who mentioned getting credit history - nobody tells you you have to carry a balance to get credit history. Using a card then paying your balance IN FULL before the interest occurs will result in even better credit history.
As to those with medical bills, if they had been responsible and have good credit, and their card raises interest rate, there is nothing to prevent them from transferring their balance elsewhere. There is still no shortage of "0% for one year" offers. Even with 3% transfer fee, it is still only 3% for the whole year of no interest. A friend of mine was in this situation because of her mother's cancer (the mother was in Russia, there was a drug that allowed her to live a bit longer and have good quality of life but it was expensive). My friend was shuffling her balance from one 0% card to another until she comfortably repaid her debt.
@Jared - people are in trouble the first time they bought something they cannot afford to repay in full. By the time the rate jumps to 21%, they are already in trouble. As to "learning about personal finances" - I grew up in the Soviet Union. I can assure you, there was no "personal finance" education there, not even such a concept. Yet, my lack of knowledge didn't prevent me or even my 40-something parents who couldn't even speak English properly to figure out that if you don't pay your full credit card balance by the due date, you pay high interest. OK, 21% is more than 10%, but even 10% is wasted money at current bank savings rates. It isn't rocket science of "finance", it is plain common sense. If you earn taxable 4% on your savings, paying more than 4%-taxes in interest to somebody else is wasted money. It was totally obvious to my parents, yet Americans who have no problems with English complain about "fine print". The information about the grace period and interest is not in fine print - it is usually nicely summarized in a table.