Many Asian countries share similar values about money, stemming from their shared Confucian teachings, which include thrift. I'm Chinese American and was raised on such values.
There is a lot to think about in the original post, it seems like no issue is as simple as we wish it was. I have a comment about laborers in developing countries, because I have spent most of my adult life in one. It is really easy to make comments about how unjust a system is, which pays people so little, but just like all the other issues that were raised, it is not as simple as it seems. First of all, there are many of us who really cannot afford to buy US made goods. I don't care what anyone says, sometimes, it's just an economic reality. At some point our ideals have to meet reality, and often, we have to compromise. Secondly, the unemployment rate in many developing countries is ludicrously high. Often, any job, is better than no job. If I pay my laundry lady $4.25 a day, that sounds like a crime, to most of you. But the lady next door pays her laundry lady less than $1.50 for working longer days and she doesn't care about her laundry lady's kids or health and doesn't bother to treat her kindly. Should I not hire a laundry lady at all, because I can't pay her a US standard of minimum wage, or am I doing what's right within this context? My laundry lady loves working for me, in no small part because I treat her as a human being ought to be treated. Is that good enough? None of these questions has a simple answer. My laundry lady makes more money, working for me, than her husband did working at a job he'd had for 20 years. He was recently fired because a fortune teller told the boss the man was untrustworthy. Go figure.
Life is not fair, but we have to make decisions based on our values and do the best we can with the information we have. You can't do a thing about what other people will do with your stuff if you Freecycle it.(We don't have Freecycle here, but I have been a member when I lived in the US) Frankly, I don't care what they do with it, as long as it isn't my problem anymore and it's not in a dumpster somewhere. Spend your energy where it can do some good and don't worry too much about the other stuff.
which was eerily true for a lot of people. A lady comes home with a microwave and a pair of shoes. The husband says "we didn't need a new microwave, the old one was fine." To which she replies "Yeah, but it was on sale, and with the money I saved I bought this great pair of shoes."
I'm not sure what you can do to convince your spouse of this point, but one way would be to collect everything together that she's bought on sale and display it in one room. And then ask her how much she uses each item. She may quickly see exectly what has been going on if all the evidence is in one place. This is often a way to convince shopping addicts that they have a problem, too.
I would love to buy only organic, environmentally-friend and local products, support the arts and buy books and magazines... But my budget means I can't do it all. I'm constantly frustrated by my wealthier friends and family who are wasteful when they can afford the ethically-responsible choices I can't.
My guilty pleasure is library books. I do buy books, but I can't afford to support my reading habits. If I only read books I could afford to buy, I would have to read less rather than buy more books. (Besides, I'm saving trees!)
Companies will maximize profit despite your best efforts to support workers. (See Prada selling $800 purses made by Chinese "Italian craftsman") Thus even socially conscious consumers will be exploited. It might cost 10% more to produce cage-free eggs, but since you feel guilty enough to pay 100% more that's what you will pay. The chickens are probably not much happier crammed into a barn with 10000 other chickens, but the farmer, corporation, and retailer, who each receive a cut of you generosity, are.
You made a number of points that I had never considered before.
And I do think that in a perfect world, I would take all of those points to heart and try to consider more than just the price tag.
But....here are some things that I feel need to be said:
1)Those organic cotton T-Shirts? They were probably trying to sell them for $40 each or something like that. I think that while there are some people who are not concerned about price at all, most people who have a budget are hesitant to spend that much on a T-Shirt, no matter what it's made of. So maybe you're still voting with your dollar by not buying it until it goes on clearance, voting to "pay less" than what Macy's thinks it's worth....
2) I shop at WalMart. And I have given a lot of thought to the fact that, I could not bake bread for a dollar a loaf. I could not make shoes for $12 a pair. And I could not sew a coat for under $40. And I know the reason for the fact that I can buy those things at WalMart for those prices is not a cheerful one.
However, since we are on a hugely tight budget, I cannot feed and clothe my family without buying some things there.
On the flip side, I always check my favorite second-hand store first, when I determine I need an article of clothing or a kitchen utensil, etc. There are so many issues that can be stirred up by this debate. If I go to the second-hand store to buy a frying pan, am I hurting someone in China buy not buying a brand new one?
I vote with the poster who said that any purchase and/or donation that keeps stuff out of the landfill(s) is beneficial. And as far as the sweatshops go, if I decide to spend more money to buy the same things that my family needs, by not going to Walmart, then my family suffers, because my budget now limits me to only buying one pair of shoes (and who gets to wear them?) or maybe even no shoes at all, instead of the three (one for each person) that we really need. And at the very least, my family is uncomfortable for having to keep wearing ripped up shoes, but quite possibly, other people in the community may think (without knowing my reasoning) that since I don't buy shoes for my family when they clearly need it, I am not caring for my daughter properly. So I believe in this situation, you really can't make a good choice. I make the one that works for my family. And I don't feel virtuous about it at all, but I'm not stealing, and if I didn't shop there, the CEOs would still get rich, and I would just have tougher decisions to make.
3) There are a lot of great thrift shops around. Unfortunately, Goodwill has decided that they are no longer in the business of being a second-hand store serving less fortunate people and bargain hunters. They have decided that they will mark their items to the price where someone "might" pay for them. I.E., the Goodwill nearest my house, in MN, charges $6.99 for a used pair of jeans. And higher if they're a name-brand. But I just bought that same brand of jeans brand new at (you guessed it) WalMart, for $8.00. What the heck? So shopping at the Goodwill no longer makes me feel anything except I'm probably padding the pockets of the executives. And also, I don't think Goodwill employees make more than minimum wage, even though the Goodwill had that pair of jeans donated to them at no cost.
The thrift shop in my town is more of what people expect when you shop for second hand stuff...Jeans are a dollar, shirts are a dollar, shoes are three dollars, sometimes very nice items are priced higher than that, but they aren't in it to "make as much money as they can." So I always try to shop and donate there instead of the Goodwill.
But anyhow, my point is, that if I had wiggle room in my budget, I would opt to make more conscience-based decisions when I shop. But seeing as how right now I could only afford that Macy's T-Shirt if it showed up at my local thrift store, well, my thoughts have been provoked, but my actions haven't.
The apartment complex I live in has a very cosmopolitan feel to it. We've got lots of grad students (which around here means lots of foreign students), seniors, young singles, young couples, young familes, working class folks, affluent folks, etc. It's a good mix and I really like the community.
However, a non-trivial fraction of the people who live here lack basic life skills.
I first realized that when they gave us our move-in packet, which included a bunch of sheets of instructions, telling us not to do really appalling things that we would never consider: don't flush aerosol cans down the toilet; don't run kitty litter through the disposall; don't turn the heat down so low the pipes freeze.... There was quite a list. If I hadn't been so amused, I might have felt insulted. But, the fact was, people who lived here had done every one of those things before it went on the list.
All that is preable to this: The opinion among landlords is that section-8 tenants are particularly likely to suffer from this sort of deficit in life skills. I don't know if that's true--obviously plenty of people using section-8 vouchers have average-or-higher life skills--but that's the perception, and it's the reason that they recommend against new landlords renting to them at the outset.
Agreed. Now please forward this to my spouse for me, who glazes over and salivates at the appearance of just about any XX% off solicitation from favorite vendors. Somehow, I'm just not convincing enough on this point.
Seriously, what happens when only one of a couple understands these issues for what they are and the other doesn't quite? Don't misunderstand: I too am tempted by discounts for unneeded items. But I tend to snap out of it more quickly and before plunking down the cash.
The desperation radio managers have now to get ANY sales through the door because of shrinking listenership is only compounded by the jocks who’ll do anything to keep their piss-poor paying gigs. And there are no bad guys at the station level because they’re just trying to keep the darn station afloat.
In fairness though, these live reads were they very backbone of radio from its inception through to the 50’s and 60’s. It just sounds cheesier and more forced now.
Everyone says buy locally. Where do you all live that you can grow veggies and such in the dead of winter? Last summer I went to a local fruit/veg stand and the canalope was from California! I have to admit that as much as I want to vote with my dollar and be green, it is frustrating to do the research on a product only to find out that it is just as bad in another way and shouldn't be supported. I think the reason that we haven't all gone green or shop only ethically is that there is just not enough time or energy to always do this, unless you live like the Amish.
I hear you what you're saying. A lot of these posts are clearly written by well-meaning, good people, who nevertheless are used to having the luxury of a lot more choices than many folks in America. I grew up in a family too poor to even afford Wal-Mart; mostly we had to shop at super-discount stores like Family Dollar, etc. In fact, my mom was a sewing machine operator in a garment factory in those days, before retailers like Wal-Mart pressured their suppliers to take advantage of cheaper labor overseas and killed the garment industry in this country. If not for Wal-Mart, my mom might have been making your striped pants. Believe me, you still would have been getting a bargain: Mama's net pay was about $12 a DAY, compared to that foreign lady's $12 a week.
For Wal-Mart, it's a no-lose situation: they force their vendors to move our manufacturing jobs elsewhere, and any manufacturers who do try to keep employing workers here have to keep their wages low in order to be as competitive with the sweatshops as possible. So Wal-Mart doesn't just get lower prices on their stock; by helping to depress wages, they also expand the class of people who are too poor to shop anywhere but -- Wal-Mart! Of course, this goes for Target and all the others as well.
That's why I don't shop at Wal-Mart, even though I know and love lots of people who do (including Mama!). No matter how hard I work, or how carefully I watch my pennies, I can never quite keep up with the cost of living, and I think more and more people can sympathize with that experience. Maybe there's not a lot I can do to change that in the long run, but in the short run I CAN avoid rewarding the very people who are making it so.
and I used to buy stuff because it was a good deal, whether or not I needed it. I finally (most of the time) am able to say, spending $0 is cheaper than $2 for a $40 item I don't need.
But the receipe up above is for ordinary bakers yeast. Brewers yeast will give you more alcohol per gallon, but only if you put in more sugar. If you're going to distill it anyway, it won't actually increase the alcohol concentration of the product. It will increase total amount of alcohol that you get--but only to the extent that you add more sugar. (You can use about half-again as much sugar and will get about half-again as much ethanol.)
Really, the only gain from using brewers yeast is that it'll take less fuel in the distilling stage.
You honestly believe that if I pay $1 more for a shirt at Wal-Mart it's going to go back to that worker? Ha! It'll go straight into the hands of some CEO.
Given the option, I shop local but I'm not going out of my way to be environmentally friendly. As a student on an extremely limited budget, going to school from 7-4 every day and working until 10 most nights, I don't have the time or energy for it.
I've got enough guilt associated with mooching off my parents, worries about student loans, and stress about passing my program, I'm not about to feel guilty about the one part of my life (my budget) that's under control. I'm looking out for number one, sorry.
It's such an obvious point that something's not a deal if you don't actually need to buy it but it's one that so often gets overlooked. It used to drive me nuts at the grocery store when they would circle the amount I'd "saved" because I had their club cards. My internal response was always along the lines of "I didn't SAVE anything, I spent $50.00". Of course, if you're going to buy something anyway then you should definitely look for those deals but you're totally right that you need to take a moment and see if you really need something before you buy it. A great deal is hard to pass up but it's easy to waste a lot of money on things that you don't need because of those deals. Congrats on walking away!
I don't have direct experience with section 8, so I respect your perspective on it. There are some good things about it. However, our lawyer recommended against it on the basis that section 8 tenants are riskier in general than employed, middle class tenants. This is probably true of low-income housing in general, however, so if you know you are going to be involved in renting low income housing, then section 8 will not have added risk. The goal is to avoid evictions and vacancies, so your best bet is gainfully employed, self-supporting tenants. I'm trying to steer new landlords and landladies to the safest option, but there are definitely other alternatives.
Because it's so difficult to find section 8 housing, anyone who is renting an "affordable" home will get section 8 applications, but the vouchers don't cover the full rent on a home in a typical middle-class neighborhood (which is the type of property I had in mind).
How about this, so you want to be a tenant :) I always bring my mom with me when I go look at places. She always feels better knowing that I am living in a sensible place, and the landlords really seem to like meeting her. I think having my mom there was what made my current landlord so keen to have me, and when my landlord bought a new house, she was so anxious to keep trustworthy ol' me as a tenant (she wanted a really reliable person as the new house is quite nice) that she threw in all sorts of freebies like free laundry, cable, internet and garage storage. I save so much money living with her, and she is happy that she does not have to worry about hooligans who will trash her swanky new house. When the tenant's mother is inspecting the premises to find out whether YOU are good enough landlord for HER, you know you have a tenant who won't be a problem :)
I too use a zero budget system of my own design. One thing that I have learned over the past 4 years of using this system is that it is extremely difficult to track every expense.
My wife and I have three accounts - one for paying bills, and one account each for personal (going to lunch at work, gas, misc). We direct deposit $50/wk into the personal accounts and the balance goes into the main account. This way we only have to track the bill paying account.
My husband works three jobs. I ALSO work. Even so, we qualify for state health insurance. And still I wouldn't want to make a buying choice that hurts someone else.
Frugality isn't about being cheap, it's about making smart choices with possessions and money. Morally, ethically, spiritually, as well as financially, people have to live with their decisions. I want to teach my children about the value of people on this planet.
We don't need all this crap regardless of how cheap it is.
I think that consumer choices are greater now than ever before. Most communities have multiple places to shop for goo-gaws. Those goo-gaws come in many flavors, colors, styles by multiple name and no-name brands. It's easy to get overwhelmed and that's at the center of this post.
I know #6 was tongue-in-cheek, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that businesses pay a percentage of each sale to the credit card company.
That's why you see "no Credit Card purchases under $X" signs in a lot of small businesses.
If you want to support an independent business, consider paying in cash, that way they aren't paying the bank a fee for cashing your check, or the credit card company a percentage that could be adding to their profits.
I know #6 was tongue-in-cheek, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that businesses pay a percentage of each sale to the credit card company.
That's why you see "no Credit Card purchases under $X" signs in a lot of small businesses.
If you want to support an independent business, consider paying in cash, that way they aren't paying the bank a fee for cashing your check, or the credit card company a percentage that could be profits.
To the commenters that refuse to pay more... really? You can't spare even an extra dollar to trickle back to that worker in China? She and her family are not as worthy as yours? If you are really so broke can you not shop in a thrift store where the garments are likely to be even cheaper?
I am not a wealthy person but I don't see the point of wasting my money on cheap crap that will fall apart in a matter of weeks so that I have to go and buy it all over again.
The people in the sweatshops can't do anything to help your husband have a day off, because they are even worse off than you. I bet that factory worker would love to stay home with her children when in fact she is probably having to send them out to work from a young age. Try and have a little compassion for others, there is always someone worse off than you.
Many Asian countries share similar values about money, stemming from their shared Confucian teachings, which include thrift. I'm Chinese American and was raised on such values.
There is a lot to think about in the original post, it seems like no issue is as simple as we wish it was. I have a comment about laborers in developing countries, because I have spent most of my adult life in one. It is really easy to make comments about how unjust a system is, which pays people so little, but just like all the other issues that were raised, it is not as simple as it seems. First of all, there are many of us who really cannot afford to buy US made goods. I don't care what anyone says, sometimes, it's just an economic reality. At some point our ideals have to meet reality, and often, we have to compromise. Secondly, the unemployment rate in many developing countries is ludicrously high. Often, any job, is better than no job. If I pay my laundry lady $4.25 a day, that sounds like a crime, to most of you. But the lady next door pays her laundry lady less than $1.50 for working longer days and she doesn't care about her laundry lady's kids or health and doesn't bother to treat her kindly. Should I not hire a laundry lady at all, because I can't pay her a US standard of minimum wage, or am I doing what's right within this context? My laundry lady loves working for me, in no small part because I treat her as a human being ought to be treated. Is that good enough? None of these questions has a simple answer. My laundry lady makes more money, working for me, than her husband did working at a job he'd had for 20 years. He was recently fired because a fortune teller told the boss the man was untrustworthy. Go figure.
Life is not fair, but we have to make decisions based on our values and do the best we can with the information we have. You can't do a thing about what other people will do with your stuff if you Freecycle it.(We don't have Freecycle here, but I have been a member when I lived in the US) Frankly, I don't care what they do with it, as long as it isn't my problem anymore and it's not in a dumpster somewhere. Spend your energy where it can do some good and don't worry too much about the other stuff.
I'm certainly glad I don't need a gallon of make-up...
which was eerily true for a lot of people. A lady comes home with a microwave and a pair of shoes. The husband says "we didn't need a new microwave, the old one was fine." To which she replies "Yeah, but it was on sale, and with the money I saved I bought this great pair of shoes."
I'm not sure what you can do to convince your spouse of this point, but one way would be to collect everything together that she's bought on sale and display it in one room. And then ask her how much she uses each item. She may quickly see exectly what has been going on if all the evidence is in one place. This is often a way to convince shopping addicts that they have a problem, too.
I would love to buy only organic, environmentally-friend and local products, support the arts and buy books and magazines... But my budget means I can't do it all. I'm constantly frustrated by my wealthier friends and family who are wasteful when they can afford the ethically-responsible choices I can't.
My guilty pleasure is library books. I do buy books, but I can't afford to support my reading habits. If I only read books I could afford to buy, I would have to read less rather than buy more books. (Besides, I'm saving trees!)
Companies will maximize profit despite your best efforts to support workers. (See Prada selling $800 purses made by Chinese "Italian craftsman") Thus even socially conscious consumers will be exploited. It might cost 10% more to produce cage-free eggs, but since you feel guilty enough to pay 100% more that's what you will pay. The chickens are probably not much happier crammed into a barn with 10000 other chickens, but the farmer, corporation, and retailer, who each receive a cut of you generosity, are.
You made a number of points that I had never considered before.
And I do think that in a perfect world, I would take all of those points to heart and try to consider more than just the price tag.
But....here are some things that I feel need to be said:
1)Those organic cotton T-Shirts? They were probably trying to sell them for $40 each or something like that. I think that while there are some people who are not concerned about price at all, most people who have a budget are hesitant to spend that much on a T-Shirt, no matter what it's made of. So maybe you're still voting with your dollar by not buying it until it goes on clearance, voting to "pay less" than what Macy's thinks it's worth....
2) I shop at WalMart. And I have given a lot of thought to the fact that, I could not bake bread for a dollar a loaf. I could not make shoes for $12 a pair. And I could not sew a coat for under $40. And I know the reason for the fact that I can buy those things at WalMart for those prices is not a cheerful one.
However, since we are on a hugely tight budget, I cannot feed and clothe my family without buying some things there.
On the flip side, I always check my favorite second-hand store first, when I determine I need an article of clothing or a kitchen utensil, etc. There are so many issues that can be stirred up by this debate. If I go to the second-hand store to buy a frying pan, am I hurting someone in China buy not buying a brand new one?
I vote with the poster who said that any purchase and/or donation that keeps stuff out of the landfill(s) is beneficial. And as far as the sweatshops go, if I decide to spend more money to buy the same things that my family needs, by not going to Walmart, then my family suffers, because my budget now limits me to only buying one pair of shoes (and who gets to wear them?) or maybe even no shoes at all, instead of the three (one for each person) that we really need. And at the very least, my family is uncomfortable for having to keep wearing ripped up shoes, but quite possibly, other people in the community may think (without knowing my reasoning) that since I don't buy shoes for my family when they clearly need it, I am not caring for my daughter properly. So I believe in this situation, you really can't make a good choice. I make the one that works for my family. And I don't feel virtuous about it at all, but I'm not stealing, and if I didn't shop there, the CEOs would still get rich, and I would just have tougher decisions to make.
3) There are a lot of great thrift shops around. Unfortunately, Goodwill has decided that they are no longer in the business of being a second-hand store serving less fortunate people and bargain hunters. They have decided that they will mark their items to the price where someone "might" pay for them. I.E., the Goodwill nearest my house, in MN, charges $6.99 for a used pair of jeans. And higher if they're a name-brand. But I just bought that same brand of jeans brand new at (you guessed it) WalMart, for $8.00. What the heck? So shopping at the Goodwill no longer makes me feel anything except I'm probably padding the pockets of the executives. And also, I don't think Goodwill employees make more than minimum wage, even though the Goodwill had that pair of jeans donated to them at no cost.
The thrift shop in my town is more of what people expect when you shop for second hand stuff...Jeans are a dollar, shirts are a dollar, shoes are three dollars, sometimes very nice items are priced higher than that, but they aren't in it to "make as much money as they can." So I always try to shop and donate there instead of the Goodwill.
But anyhow, my point is, that if I had wiggle room in my budget, I would opt to make more conscience-based decisions when I shop. But seeing as how right now I could only afford that Macy's T-Shirt if it showed up at my local thrift store, well, my thoughts have been provoked, but my actions haven't.
The apartment complex I live in has a very cosmopolitan feel to it. We've got lots of grad students (which around here means lots of foreign students), seniors, young singles, young couples, young familes, working class folks, affluent folks, etc. It's a good mix and I really like the community.
However, a non-trivial fraction of the people who live here lack basic life skills.
I first realized that when they gave us our move-in packet, which included a bunch of sheets of instructions, telling us not to do really appalling things that we would never consider: don't flush aerosol cans down the toilet; don't run kitty litter through the disposall; don't turn the heat down so low the pipes freeze.... There was quite a list. If I hadn't been so amused, I might have felt insulted. But, the fact was, people who lived here had done every one of those things before it went on the list.
All that is preable to this: The opinion among landlords is that section-8 tenants are particularly likely to suffer from this sort of deficit in life skills. I don't know if that's true--obviously plenty of people using section-8 vouchers have average-or-higher life skills--but that's the perception, and it's the reason that they recommend against new landlords renting to them at the outset.
Agreed. Now please forward this to my spouse for me, who glazes over and salivates at the appearance of just about any XX% off solicitation from favorite vendors. Somehow, I'm just not convincing enough on this point.
Seriously, what happens when only one of a couple understands these issues for what they are and the other doesn't quite? Don't misunderstand: I too am tempted by discounts for unneeded items. But I tend to snap out of it more quickly and before plunking down the cash.
The desperation radio managers have now to get ANY sales through the door because of shrinking listenership is only compounded by the jocks who’ll do anything to keep their piss-poor paying gigs. And there are no bad guys at the station level because they’re just trying to keep the darn station afloat.
In fairness though, these live reads were they very backbone of radio from its inception through to the 50’s and 60’s. It just sounds cheesier and more forced now.
Best always,
- Peter
Everyone says buy locally. Where do you all live that you can grow veggies and such in the dead of winter? Last summer I went to a local fruit/veg stand and the canalope was from California! I have to admit that as much as I want to vote with my dollar and be green, it is frustrating to do the research on a product only to find out that it is just as bad in another way and shouldn't be supported. I think the reason that we haven't all gone green or shop only ethically is that there is just not enough time or energy to always do this, unless you live like the Amish.
I hear you what you're saying. A lot of these posts are clearly written by well-meaning, good people, who nevertheless are used to having the luxury of a lot more choices than many folks in America. I grew up in a family too poor to even afford Wal-Mart; mostly we had to shop at super-discount stores like Family Dollar, etc. In fact, my mom was a sewing machine operator in a garment factory in those days, before retailers like Wal-Mart pressured their suppliers to take advantage of cheaper labor overseas and killed the garment industry in this country. If not for Wal-Mart, my mom might have been making your striped pants. Believe me, you still would have been getting a bargain: Mama's net pay was about $12 a DAY, compared to that foreign lady's $12 a week.
For Wal-Mart, it's a no-lose situation: they force their vendors to move our manufacturing jobs elsewhere, and any manufacturers who do try to keep employing workers here have to keep their wages low in order to be as competitive with the sweatshops as possible. So Wal-Mart doesn't just get lower prices on their stock; by helping to depress wages, they also expand the class of people who are too poor to shop anywhere but -- Wal-Mart! Of course, this goes for Target and all the others as well.
That's why I don't shop at Wal-Mart, even though I know and love lots of people who do (including Mama!). No matter how hard I work, or how carefully I watch my pennies, I can never quite keep up with the cost of living, and I think more and more people can sympathize with that experience. Maybe there's not a lot I can do to change that in the long run, but in the short run I CAN avoid rewarding the very people who are making it so.
and I used to buy stuff because it was a good deal, whether or not I needed it. I finally (most of the time) am able to say, spending $0 is cheaper than $2 for a $40 item I don't need.
But the receipe up above is for ordinary bakers yeast. Brewers yeast will give you more alcohol per gallon, but only if you put in more sugar. If you're going to distill it anyway, it won't actually increase the alcohol concentration of the product. It will increase total amount of alcohol that you get--but only to the extent that you add more sugar. (You can use about half-again as much sugar and will get about half-again as much ethanol.)
Really, the only gain from using brewers yeast is that it'll take less fuel in the distilling stage.
You honestly believe that if I pay $1 more for a shirt at Wal-Mart it's going to go back to that worker? Ha! It'll go straight into the hands of some CEO.
Given the option, I shop local but I'm not going out of my way to be environmentally friendly. As a student on an extremely limited budget, going to school from 7-4 every day and working until 10 most nights, I don't have the time or energy for it.
I've got enough guilt associated with mooching off my parents, worries about student loans, and stress about passing my program, I'm not about to feel guilty about the one part of my life (my budget) that's under control. I'm looking out for number one, sorry.
It's such an obvious point that something's not a deal if you don't actually need to buy it but it's one that so often gets overlooked. It used to drive me nuts at the grocery store when they would circle the amount I'd "saved" because I had their club cards. My internal response was always along the lines of "I didn't SAVE anything, I spent $50.00". Of course, if you're going to buy something anyway then you should definitely look for those deals but you're totally right that you need to take a moment and see if you really need something before you buy it. A great deal is hard to pass up but it's easy to waste a lot of money on things that you don't need because of those deals. Congrats on walking away!
Can you buy brewers yeast at local stores, or only brew shops?
I don't have direct experience with section 8, so I respect your perspective on it. There are some good things about it. However, our lawyer recommended against it on the basis that section 8 tenants are riskier in general than employed, middle class tenants. This is probably true of low-income housing in general, however, so if you know you are going to be involved in renting low income housing, then section 8 will not have added risk. The goal is to avoid evictions and vacancies, so your best bet is gainfully employed, self-supporting tenants. I'm trying to steer new landlords and landladies to the safest option, but there are definitely other alternatives.
Because it's so difficult to find section 8 housing, anyone who is renting an "affordable" home will get section 8 applications, but the vouchers don't cover the full rent on a home in a typical middle-class neighborhood (which is the type of property I had in mind).
Catherine Shaffer
Wise Bread Contributor
there is always someone with money on their dining card...you just have to become friends with them.
How about this, so you want to be a tenant :) I always bring my mom with me when I go look at places. She always feels better knowing that I am living in a sensible place, and the landlords really seem to like meeting her. I think having my mom there was what made my current landlord so keen to have me, and when my landlord bought a new house, she was so anxious to keep trustworthy ol' me as a tenant (she wanted a really reliable person as the new house is quite nice) that she threw in all sorts of freebies like free laundry, cable, internet and garage storage. I save so much money living with her, and she is happy that she does not have to worry about hooligans who will trash her swanky new house. When the tenant's mother is inspecting the premises to find out whether YOU are good enough landlord for HER, you know you have a tenant who won't be a problem :)
I too use a zero budget system of my own design. One thing that I have learned over the past 4 years of using this system is that it is extremely difficult to track every expense.
My wife and I have three accounts - one for paying bills, and one account each for personal (going to lunch at work, gas, misc). We direct deposit $50/wk into the personal accounts and the balance goes into the main account. This way we only have to track the bill paying account.
My husband works three jobs. I ALSO work. Even so, we qualify for state health insurance. And still I wouldn't want to make a buying choice that hurts someone else.
Frugality isn't about being cheap, it's about making smart choices with possessions and money. Morally, ethically, spiritually, as well as financially, people have to live with their decisions. I want to teach my children about the value of people on this planet.
We don't need all this crap regardless of how cheap it is.
I think that consumer choices are greater now than ever before. Most communities have multiple places to shop for goo-gaws. Those goo-gaws come in many flavors, colors, styles by multiple name and no-name brands. It's easy to get overwhelmed and that's at the center of this post.
I know #6 was tongue-in-cheek, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that businesses pay a percentage of each sale to the credit card company.
That's why you see "no Credit Card purchases under $X" signs in a lot of small businesses.
If you want to support an independent business, consider paying in cash, that way they aren't paying the bank a fee for cashing your check, or the credit card company a percentage that could be adding to their profits.
I know #6 was tongue-in-cheek, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that businesses pay a percentage of each sale to the credit card company.
That's why you see "no Credit Card purchases under $X" signs in a lot of small businesses.
If you want to support an independent business, consider paying in cash, that way they aren't paying the bank a fee for cashing your check, or the credit card company a percentage that could be profits.
To the commenters that refuse to pay more... really? You can't spare even an extra dollar to trickle back to that worker in China? She and her family are not as worthy as yours? If you are really so broke can you not shop in a thrift store where the garments are likely to be even cheaper?
I am not a wealthy person but I don't see the point of wasting my money on cheap crap that will fall apart in a matter of weeks so that I have to go and buy it all over again.
The people in the sweatshops can't do anything to help your husband have a day off, because they are even worse off than you. I bet that factory worker would love to stay home with her children when in fact she is probably having to send them out to work from a young age. Try and have a little compassion for others, there is always someone worse off than you.