Oh, I HATE when DJs hawk complete crap. We have Bob and Sheri on at work and if I have to hear them mention any more diet pills, I'm going to throw the radio out the window.
I'll also add John Tesh going on and on and on about that stupid game Apples to Apples during the holidays. I guess the advertising worked because I still vividly remember the inane ways he would segue into what a great game it is.
(as Margaret mentioned, work can interfere with studies) but I also loved free food! You brought back some nice memories. I went to school in the South (Bible belt) and the churches all offered free meals at the beginning of the fall semester. I went to them all -- the Protestants had home-cooked covered dish dinners while the Catholics served hot dogs and beer. All were good. Watch out for cults but enjoy genuine hospitality when you can.
Thanks for the excellent post and idea. I can see so many situations where I can apply this. It's kind of like identifying what is the company/person/entity's self interest and showing to them how you can help them get what they want. With this target in mind, you exert tremendous influence and leverage. Very, very good advice. Maybe I'll even watch the movie :)
I like this post. I too, have been in poverty and am now in the "voluntary simplicity", and they are in no way related! I don't eat out much or buy top shelf brands all the time, but that is a luxury compared to eating what ever the food bank can give you. I think being poor at least once in your life is one of the most valuable lessons. (maybe that sounds silly.. but) You really appreciate the simple pleasures in life so much more, when you know what its like to go with out simple pleasures and even necessities.
What I hate is the "let's not exchange gifts at Christmas this year" decision that nobody but me abides by!!! My MIL made the announcement year before last at Christmas. I was relieved because it can be pricey buying gifts for everyone. So, this past year, my DH and I arrived without gifts for the extended family and wouldn't you know it, they all gave us gifts, some rather extravegant by ones who normally give 'token' gifts. I was filled with guilt and couldn't enjoy the evening at all. Every year prior I had enjoyed giving everyone something even tho' it was tough on the budget. Never again; they'll all get something next time even if it is a simple homemade gift.
...about exercising in the evening, that is. I live for an extra hour in the evening to get home from work and get my anti-depressant in (training for an ultramarathon). It keeps my doctor time to a minimum and productivity high. I'm looking forward to DST.
One of the four roommates worked as a closing waitress part time in a natural foods restaurant. She brought home everything they had planned to toss. We ate like princesses.
There are some situations that can give you the necessary insight (such as, if you already work there, or know someone who does, or you work for a supplier, customer, or competitor). In general, though, I think you're right that it's hard to just pick an employer and then figure out what they need.
In practice, you're probably better off to come at it from the opposite direction:
What would you do for a living, if you could do anything?
What can you do well that people will pay for?
If you could replace a few of your current tasks that you don't like with ones that you do, what would your job look like?
Think about the answers to that sort of question first, then look around for companies that could benefit from your skills and expertise.
Beyond that, probably networking is the key. Get to know some of the people at the companies that you're interested in. Listen when they say things like, "My manager doesn't understand X" or "The factory always screws up Y." (They might even say, "We can't find anybody to do Z," although you can't really expect that.) Do enough of it, and you'll eventually find a match--a problem where the solution is you.
There are certain relatives we give gifts to, never expecting a return, because they're always "broke". (Stuff like a double batch of homemade sugar free cookies for a diabetic.) They'd feel badly not getting anything for Christmas (our family members are all really little kids at heart) and we generally enjoy trying to figure stuff out for them. Another relative had the great good sense to say "let's just get things for the kids" and so we have with theirs. Our gifts can be homemade or purchased but "cool", hers are always purchased and "cool". One sister is an awesome shopper. There is no way to reciprocate in kind. It's not that she always spends a ton of money (we're both thrift store junkies) but she has an incredable eye and LOVES to shop. Then she wraps them in the most beautiful ways. I've framed some of her wrappings. We get her things she can't find easily in Florida. Vintage dishes from the 1930's in dandilion yellow. Another sister gives us lots of small things. Not our tastes, but reflective of what she likes and wants. We've found when we get her similar things the following year, she's delighted to receive them, "Socks!, just what I wanted, how did you know?" If we can be straight with each person that's best. If not, we try to enjoy the process, or at least not be so thrown by it. If we receive something horribly horrible, we bring it to the thrift store. Someone will be able to use it.
I worked in a hotel all through college and ate pretty good. Just make sure you work in a full service place. We had to pay for anything that had to be cooked, but salads were free. Also chips and salsa make a pretty good meal too. Also lots of free coffee and tea. If you happen to land a job at a limited service place, you can survive nicely on bagels and cream cheese and yogurt.Also lots of guests will grab you something to eat when they go out. Many of them have large expense accounts and don't mind adding an entree to their bill for you. (This works really well when you are super extra nice to those long term guests.)
A smile goes a long way! :0)
I love what you're saying here, and I know I'd want to hire someone who presented themselves this way. But here's the thing I don't get: how do you find out what a company's problem is from afar? I mean, if you're not an employee there and don't have inside knowledge, how can you find out what they're wanting/thinking?
This was a revelation to me. About six months ago, I was ready to quit my current gig--I was already filling out applications and putting together my resume. And then someone made a comment at a meeting, and I thought, "Why the devil doesn't the company just --?" As of yesterday, the company does. And I'm making it happen. Nationally. From my home office, in my fuzzy slippers.
Not all companies are like this. I got to shop my idea to the CEO, CFO and division president in January (and they flew me out to a 4 star hotel to do it--sweet!) I consider that the sign of a truly good employer.
Not to be self-promotional or anything, but there's a longer account I posted yesterday on my blog, if you're interested in checking it out.
Actually, I like them, kinda. I would much rather give than receive because receiving then becomes awkward, especially if I didn't have a gift for the gift giver (on days other than my birthday). I try to tell people not to buy me things but they don't listen! I also always try to communicate that I bought a gift because I wanted to or I thought it would be the absolute perfect thing for the recipient and they might not buy it - not because I want a gift in return - so no one feels guilty. But me, must be the lapsed Catholic, I become a mess. The stress of getting a gift from someone unexpected is way more than the joy of getting the gift - and that's for good gifts.
It's worse when it's a token, 'I thought I should buy you something so here's a GPS that you don't need.' My parents just did that for my birthday on the advice of my husband, who I have since yelled at. Apparently my dad bought the device because he thought his was lost and then he found his and was going to return it and MY HUSBAND (idiot) said, give it to your daughter for her birthday. And my parents did. We have a GPS, it's my husband's, but I generally don't go anywhere unfamiliar without him and I definitely don't do it when he's also going somewhere unfamiliar, so we can share. And, I pretty much hate them, I like them when I'm lost but I hate them when they give me the wrong directions and because my husband is so dependent on it he can't get anywhere without it And there are things I need/want - like a rug for the kitchen or a freezer for the basement so I can make even more red beans and soups at a time and buy TONS of beef on sale or an area made in the backyard so I can grow cool purple tomatoes or NOTHING. But, instead, I have this GPS that I hate, that I don't think I can return or sell for fear of the guilt. I might as well have a $100 bill painted into the wall for all the good it's doing anyone.
Ggrrrrrr.
I do like well thought out gifts, my friend gave me a gift card to Trader Joe's so I can buy cheap wine and an Alton Brown cookbook and a toy for the dog - but I'm still eaten up with the guilt, because I didn't get her anything, although I did buy her a nice, yay, you have a baby gift, so maybe we're even.
It's too much to keep track of.
Anyway, enough from me. Great post!! And, please, spend your money on you and don't give me gifts!!
Seriously? One hour? That's what messing you up for a whole year. If time changes were so devastating, how could business travelers and professional teams function with the very sudden change in time that is often many hours.
It's dark when you leave home for work. Well, it's now light when you get home from work. Take advantage of it. Go outside and take a walk or something. The rising costs associated with DST is from increased energy used in heating or cooling houses, something that could be adverted if people would simply NOT use these features and they would not have to if they were out exercising. A number (no make that a majority) of North Americans enjoy spending time outside, doing things like playing baseball, hiking, or cycling. Now they can do that after getting home from work because of the longer sun time available. Does anyone ever calculate the benefits of the mental and physical well being associated with DST? And besides, farmers make up 2% of the work force. If anyone should cope, maybe it should be the minority.
DST doesn't make sense to me. As a lifelong resident of Indiana, I can't figure out why we do this or what it saves. In the middle of summer it is light until 10 p.m. This is insane! If you want to run in the morning in the spring, you can't because it doesn't get light enough before work to get out safely on the road. It's just messed up.
This study is great because it proves we aren't saving a thing. Thanks for putting it out there.
The problem (or maybe the benefit) of the big gift from relatives is that it's not expected to be reciprocated in kind. What that means in practice, though, is that it takes a lot of thought to give back something that doesn't seem inappropriate. If you have access to a family archive of photos (much easier in these days of scanners), you can have a nice picture of a common relative (grandmother, greatgrandmother, whatever) printed in 5x7 and put it in a pretty frame--if you're careful, you can get one for less than $10 that looks great. It's a thoughtful gift that acknowledges your closeness without trying to out-price anyone.
More difficult with family friends, but if you have an older photo, particularly of your families together back in the day, this is a nice option.
As to what other suggestions might come up in this discussion. I have this problem with a few things. The ones you can't use are the worst because I sometimes feel like I have to keep them around and trip over them out of consideration to the person who just dropped it off for you. Even if you've clearly stated you are trying to downsize and streamline. And even if you've been clearly stating it for some time. Sometimes I ask myself is it really me that's not being thoughtful? Just my two cents.
In the end I usually try to land on the side of "the gracious thing to do is the right thing to do". But it's hard when you've done all the work to organize your life and home the way you want and then have to do the work of fitting in stuff just to sit around and take up the space you carved out for the things you do want. This is a very long way of saying that I would LOVE some suggestions myself.
When I look back at my high school days I am always surprised with the financial decisions my friends have made over the subsequent years. High school is a great leveler. Almost every student is poor. However once you earn your own money you quickly find out what your friends attitude to money is.
I personally haven't really increased my spending since my first job. It really has made an incredible difference to my wealth. After 7 years I can start to the see what a difference compound returns make.
On the other hand I've got a bunch of friends who spend like no tomorrow. One recently complained to me about rising interest rates. He's got a massive mortgage in a nice suburb. When I told him he should think about saving and having a savings buffer he took offense. The next topic of conversation was about his next overseas ski trip. Changing his lifestyle was a personal affront to him. The problem is that if he doesn't spend less his wife can't quit work to have a kid. I see relationship problems up ahead.
Another friend has a massive mortgage too. Him and his wife have good incomes but possibly not stables ones. She's in banking (not good to be in now) and he's a contractor. With the economy not looking good he now wants to get an imported sports car. It doesn't help he's gadget crazy as well. I suspect he too does not have much of a savings buffer.
One thing I would like them to understand is that long term interests rates are likely to rise in the next couple of years. I know it is low now but over the long run it is unsustainable. In general terms low interest rates (and savings rates) cause inflation. Foreigners have largely keep interest rates low by lending to us. Eventually that will end once they realise they are constantly paid with a devaluing currency. It is likely my friends will be brutalized with high interest rates. I only wish they knew what kind of financial hole they are digging for themselves.
I was always taught to accept a gift graciously, but I wasn't ever taught that one had to be given in return. Giving something with the expectation of getting something back is extremely rude, in my book. How do you know the other person's situation? They might not like you, they might not have enough money, or it might not be convenient in other ways for them to return the gift.
If you move in circles where you MUST get the gifter something, try not getting anything a few times. I bet people will soon stop buying you stuff, if they expect something back.
Great post and great discussion. I understand that this site concentrates on living frugally -- "living large on a small budget" -- but I'm just not seeing why that has to mean the same thing for different people.
First of all, the many suggestions that one should pick up and move to a less expensive area assume that the same job or the same salary will be available after the move. That won't always be the case.
But even if it were the case in an individual situation, I agree with the comments that you should be able to make the choice to live near your family, your friends, or your community. As a few other commenters noted, your financial goals shouldn't be a goal in and of themselves -- they should be a means to an end. I have a six-figure income, and I could move to a less expensive area. But for it to be a meaningful difference in expenses, I would have to move pretty far. Is it worth it to me to lose a few extra hours a day commuting so that I can save on my mortgage? Not even close. I have lofty financial goals, but I have no doubt that I would pay MORE if it meant I could get more time with my wife and kids. These are and should be individual choices, in my opinion.
Finally, we all have two ways of pursuing financial goals: cutting expenses and increasing income. I think it's a mistake to focus solely on cutting expenses.
Oh, I HATE when DJs hawk complete crap. We have Bob and Sheri on at work and if I have to hear them mention any more diet pills, I'm going to throw the radio out the window.
I'll also add John Tesh going on and on and on about that stupid game Apples to Apples during the holidays. I guess the advertising worked because I still vividly remember the inane ways he would segue into what a great game it is.
(as Margaret mentioned, work can interfere with studies) but I also loved free food! You brought back some nice memories. I went to school in the South (Bible belt) and the churches all offered free meals at the beginning of the fall semester. I went to them all -- the Protestants had home-cooked covered dish dinners while the Catholics served hot dogs and beer. All were good. Watch out for cults but enjoy genuine hospitality when you can.
Thanks for the excellent post and idea. I can see so many situations where I can apply this. It's kind of like identifying what is the company/person/entity's self interest and showing to them how you can help them get what they want. With this target in mind, you exert tremendous influence and leverage. Very, very good advice. Maybe I'll even watch the movie :)
You could get a job...
I like this post. I too, have been in poverty and am now in the "voluntary simplicity", and they are in no way related! I don't eat out much or buy top shelf brands all the time, but that is a luxury compared to eating what ever the food bank can give you. I think being poor at least once in your life is one of the most valuable lessons. (maybe that sounds silly.. but) You really appreciate the simple pleasures in life so much more, when you know what its like to go with out simple pleasures and even necessities.
What I hate is the "let's not exchange gifts at Christmas this year" decision that nobody but me abides by!!! My MIL made the announcement year before last at Christmas. I was relieved because it can be pricey buying gifts for everyone. So, this past year, my DH and I arrived without gifts for the extended family and wouldn't you know it, they all gave us gifts, some rather extravegant by ones who normally give 'token' gifts. I was filled with guilt and couldn't enjoy the evening at all. Every year prior I had enjoyed giving everyone something even tho' it was tough on the budget. Never again; they'll all get something next time even if it is a simple homemade gift.
...about exercising in the evening, that is. I live for an extra hour in the evening to get home from work and get my anti-depressant in (training for an ultramarathon). It keeps my doctor time to a minimum and productivity high. I'm looking forward to DST.
One of the four roommates worked as a closing waitress part time in a natural foods restaurant. She brought home everything they had planned to toss. We ate like princesses.
There are some situations that can give you the necessary insight (such as, if you already work there, or know someone who does, or you work for a supplier, customer, or competitor). In general, though, I think you're right that it's hard to just pick an employer and then figure out what they need.
In practice, you're probably better off to come at it from the opposite direction:
Think about the answers to that sort of question first, then look around for companies that could benefit from your skills and expertise.
Beyond that, probably networking is the key. Get to know some of the people at the companies that you're interested in. Listen when they say things like, "My manager doesn't understand X" or "The factory always screws up Y." (They might even say, "We can't find anybody to do Z," although you can't really expect that.) Do enough of it, and you'll eventually find a match--a problem where the solution is you.
There are certain relatives we give gifts to, never expecting a return, because they're always "broke". (Stuff like a double batch of homemade sugar free cookies for a diabetic.) They'd feel badly not getting anything for Christmas (our family members are all really little kids at heart) and we generally enjoy trying to figure stuff out for them. Another relative had the great good sense to say "let's just get things for the kids" and so we have with theirs. Our gifts can be homemade or purchased but "cool", hers are always purchased and "cool". One sister is an awesome shopper. There is no way to reciprocate in kind. It's not that she always spends a ton of money (we're both thrift store junkies) but she has an incredable eye and LOVES to shop. Then she wraps them in the most beautiful ways. I've framed some of her wrappings. We get her things she can't find easily in Florida. Vintage dishes from the 1930's in dandilion yellow. Another sister gives us lots of small things. Not our tastes, but reflective of what she likes and wants. We've found when we get her similar things the following year, she's delighted to receive them, "Socks!, just what I wanted, how did you know?" If we can be straight with each person that's best. If not, we try to enjoy the process, or at least not be so thrown by it. If we receive something horribly horrible, we bring it to the thrift store. Someone will be able to use it.
I worked in a hotel all through college and ate pretty good. Just make sure you work in a full service place. We had to pay for anything that had to be cooked, but salads were free. Also chips and salsa make a pretty good meal too. Also lots of free coffee and tea. If you happen to land a job at a limited service place, you can survive nicely on bagels and cream cheese and yogurt.Also lots of guests will grab you something to eat when they go out. Many of them have large expense accounts and don't mind adding an entree to their bill for you. (This works really well when you are super extra nice to those long term guests.)
A smile goes a long way! :0)
I love what you're saying here, and I know I'd want to hire someone who presented themselves this way. But here's the thing I don't get: how do you find out what a company's problem is from afar? I mean, if you're not an employee there and don't have inside knowledge, how can you find out what they're wanting/thinking?
This was a revelation to me. About six months ago, I was ready to quit my current gig--I was already filling out applications and putting together my resume. And then someone made a comment at a meeting, and I thought, "Why the devil doesn't the company just --?" As of yesterday, the company does. And I'm making it happen. Nationally. From my home office, in my fuzzy slippers.
Not all companies are like this. I got to shop my idea to the CEO, CFO and division president in January (and they flew me out to a 4 star hotel to do it--sweet!) I consider that the sign of a truly good employer.
Not to be self-promotional or anything, but there's a longer account I posted yesterday on my blog, if you're interested in checking it out.
Actually, I like them, kinda. I would much rather give than receive because receiving then becomes awkward, especially if I didn't have a gift for the gift giver (on days other than my birthday). I try to tell people not to buy me things but they don't listen! I also always try to communicate that I bought a gift because I wanted to or I thought it would be the absolute perfect thing for the recipient and they might not buy it - not because I want a gift in return - so no one feels guilty. But me, must be the lapsed Catholic, I become a mess. The stress of getting a gift from someone unexpected is way more than the joy of getting the gift - and that's for good gifts.
It's worse when it's a token, 'I thought I should buy you something so here's a GPS that you don't need.' My parents just did that for my birthday on the advice of my husband, who I have since yelled at. Apparently my dad bought the device because he thought his was lost and then he found his and was going to return it and MY HUSBAND (idiot) said, give it to your daughter for her birthday. And my parents did. We have a GPS, it's my husband's, but I generally don't go anywhere unfamiliar without him and I definitely don't do it when he's also going somewhere unfamiliar, so we can share. And, I pretty much hate them, I like them when I'm lost but I hate them when they give me the wrong directions and because my husband is so dependent on it he can't get anywhere without it And there are things I need/want - like a rug for the kitchen or a freezer for the basement so I can make even more red beans and soups at a time and buy TONS of beef on sale or an area made in the backyard so I can grow cool purple tomatoes or NOTHING. But, instead, I have this GPS that I hate, that I don't think I can return or sell for fear of the guilt. I might as well have a $100 bill painted into the wall for all the good it's doing anyone.
Ggrrrrrr.
I do like well thought out gifts, my friend gave me a gift card to Trader Joe's so I can buy cheap wine and an Alton Brown cookbook and a toy for the dog - but I'm still eaten up with the guilt, because I didn't get her anything, although I did buy her a nice, yay, you have a baby gift, so maybe we're even.
It's too much to keep track of.
Anyway, enough from me. Great post!! And, please, spend your money on you and don't give me gifts!!
Seriously? One hour? That's what messing you up for a whole year. If time changes were so devastating, how could business travelers and professional teams function with the very sudden change in time that is often many hours.
It's dark when you leave home for work. Well, it's now light when you get home from work. Take advantage of it. Go outside and take a walk or something. The rising costs associated with DST is from increased energy used in heating or cooling houses, something that could be adverted if people would simply NOT use these features and they would not have to if they were out exercising. A number (no make that a majority) of North Americans enjoy spending time outside, doing things like playing baseball, hiking, or cycling. Now they can do that after getting home from work because of the longer sun time available. Does anyone ever calculate the benefits of the mental and physical well being associated with DST? And besides, farmers make up 2% of the work force. If anyone should cope, maybe it should be the minority.
part time waitress/cook job. Many people get into food service cause they're hungry and find a career.
DST doesn't make sense to me. As a lifelong resident of Indiana, I can't figure out why we do this or what it saves. In the middle of summer it is light until 10 p.m. This is insane! If you want to run in the morning in the spring, you can't because it doesn't get light enough before work to get out safely on the road. It's just messed up.
This study is great because it proves we aren't saving a thing. Thanks for putting it out there.
You're a funny guy, Minimum Wage.
What the FARC?
we will become what mexico is and what russia was.
The problem (or maybe the benefit) of the big gift from relatives is that it's not expected to be reciprocated in kind. What that means in practice, though, is that it takes a lot of thought to give back something that doesn't seem inappropriate. If you have access to a family archive of photos (much easier in these days of scanners), you can have a nice picture of a common relative (grandmother, greatgrandmother, whatever) printed in 5x7 and put it in a pretty frame--if you're careful, you can get one for less than $10 that looks great. It's a thoughtful gift that acknowledges your closeness without trying to out-price anyone.
More difficult with family friends, but if you have an older photo, particularly of your families together back in the day, this is a nice option.
As to what other suggestions might come up in this discussion. I have this problem with a few things. The ones you can't use are the worst because I sometimes feel like I have to keep them around and trip over them out of consideration to the person who just dropped it off for you. Even if you've clearly stated you are trying to downsize and streamline. And even if you've been clearly stating it for some time. Sometimes I ask myself is it really me that's not being thoughtful? Just my two cents.
In the end I usually try to land on the side of "the gracious thing to do is the right thing to do". But it's hard when you've done all the work to organize your life and home the way you want and then have to do the work of fitting in stuff just to sit around and take up the space you carved out for the things you do want. This is a very long way of saying that I would LOVE some suggestions myself.
Thanks, Xin, for the post.
When I look back at my high school days I am always surprised with the financial decisions my friends have made over the subsequent years. High school is a great leveler. Almost every student is poor. However once you earn your own money you quickly find out what your friends attitude to money is.
I personally haven't really increased my spending since my first job. It really has made an incredible difference to my wealth. After 7 years I can start to the see what a difference compound returns make.
On the other hand I've got a bunch of friends who spend like no tomorrow. One recently complained to me about rising interest rates. He's got a massive mortgage in a nice suburb. When I told him he should think about saving and having a savings buffer he took offense. The next topic of conversation was about his next overseas ski trip. Changing his lifestyle was a personal affront to him. The problem is that if he doesn't spend less his wife can't quit work to have a kid. I see relationship problems up ahead.
Another friend has a massive mortgage too. Him and his wife have good incomes but possibly not stables ones. She's in banking (not good to be in now) and he's a contractor. With the economy not looking good he now wants to get an imported sports car. It doesn't help he's gadget crazy as well. I suspect he too does not have much of a savings buffer.
One thing I would like them to understand is that long term interests rates are likely to rise in the next couple of years. I know it is low now but over the long run it is unsustainable. In general terms low interest rates (and savings rates) cause inflation. Foreigners have largely keep interest rates low by lending to us. Eventually that will end once they realise they are constantly paid with a devaluing currency. It is likely my friends will be brutalized with high interest rates. I only wish they knew what kind of financial hole they are digging for themselves.
I was always taught to accept a gift graciously, but I wasn't ever taught that one had to be given in return. Giving something with the expectation of getting something back is extremely rude, in my book. How do you know the other person's situation? They might not like you, they might not have enough money, or it might not be convenient in other ways for them to return the gift.
If you move in circles where you MUST get the gifter something, try not getting anything a few times. I bet people will soon stop buying you stuff, if they expect something back.
Great post and great discussion. I understand that this site concentrates on living frugally -- "living large on a small budget" -- but I'm just not seeing why that has to mean the same thing for different people.
First of all, the many suggestions that one should pick up and move to a less expensive area assume that the same job or the same salary will be available after the move. That won't always be the case.
But even if it were the case in an individual situation, I agree with the comments that you should be able to make the choice to live near your family, your friends, or your community. As a few other commenters noted, your financial goals shouldn't be a goal in and of themselves -- they should be a means to an end. I have a six-figure income, and I could move to a less expensive area. But for it to be a meaningful difference in expenses, I would have to move pretty far. Is it worth it to me to lose a few extra hours a day commuting so that I can save on my mortgage? Not even close. I have lofty financial goals, but I have no doubt that I would pay MORE if it meant I could get more time with my wife and kids. These are and should be individual choices, in my opinion.
Finally, we all have two ways of pursuing financial goals: cutting expenses and increasing income. I think it's a mistake to focus solely on cutting expenses.