loveandsalt makes a great point about remodeling.
Another option might be to rent a storage unit for all the stuff in the garage (buying you some space) while you wait for the market to recover (which it eventually will do).
Best of luck however you decide to move forward (although I would agree that an attorney and accountant should be your first stops before doing ANYTHING)
So many folks believe that their house is always appreciating. We've found out more than ever in the past few years that what goes up must come down. And now so many folks are looking for someone to blame or bail them out.
This is not a personal attack, but sometimes when we're in the thick of emotional mess, we need to step back and look inward. It might help to figure out what we should or could have done differently in order to avoid it in the future.
Just wondering--can you stay where you are and put on some kind of addition--building out or up? This is a tough situation. If you CAN ride it out you will do better than if you have to trash your credit and lose what you've put in.
I have a mortgage with Citi. I'm not in the situation you are in. But I find their customer service and customer relations appalling. I will never do business with them once I can get out of this mortgage.
I understand your desire for more space. But I think JT has some very valid points. I would just add that markets do go backup. It may not be for a while but the value of your house will increase some day. Waiting it out is still a valid option to consider.
Thanks for sharing. This kind of insanity is the type of thing that I wouldn't know about now that I live abroad. There's no excuse for this kind of banking practice.
I'm going to pull my money out of any bank that received TARP funds and that I suspect of having unethical lending practices.
Very upsetting news. I hope you figure this one out in a way that works for you.
I am not very sympathetic. You've been able to make the payments for 7 years, so it isn't like this is unaffordable property. Yes, you want to move, but you may not be able to at this time and may need to wait for the market to recover. When you bought the house did you really believe that you would be guaranteed a profit on the purchase, and would always be able to sell at a positive delta (or even break even)? If so, that is naive. Property values go up. They go down. A house is illiquid and frankly not the best investment for guaranteeing gain as you have discovered.
The fact that the house is worse less isn't the mortgage folder's fault (well, maybe in a macroeconomic sense, but still...). If you sold at a profit, would you give back some of your gain to the bank, "just because"? SNo? So how is selling at a loss their problem? Given that fact, the ball is in their court. Whatever their conditions, they get to decide. Even if their conditions are silly. Frankly, they don't have to do this at all.
I am basically in the same position, several years ago our home was valued at $240,000 I re-financed to $160,000 thinking I was leaving lots of room for equity and now my home is worth $120,000. It just makes me sick. My neighbors did a short sale, it took them almost a year. The other two houses on either side of me are both vacant, making it that much harder for me to sell my home, I have considered a short sale, and considered walking away, I just do not know how it would hit my credit, my ability to get a new home afterwords, or would I be stuck renting for a few years first?
I'm a Paramedic and I can't comment enough on being thorough and honest with your medical history and the current situation. There are a lot of good treatments we have available to help people, but there are many with specific contraindications or reasons to not use a drug or treatment.
If you want good care specific to your needs, then make sure that you tell the EMS or ER crews everything that is going on.
A quick emergency-related tip for those who don't have a traditional landline: keep an emergency phone connected to the landline connection, which should allow you to call 911 even if you don't pay for monthly service. Also, program emergency numbers into your cell phone for quick access.
Glad you were willing to share. As I tell everyone in this situation, SPEAK WITH AN ATTORNEY. Seriously, do it today. Find a good attorney who specializes in foreclosures and put down a retainer. It will probably also help to speak with an accountant about some of the numbers as well.
These two people will help you way more than CitiMortgage reps ever will. They'll be able to help you decide if walking away is the best bet for you or not (I'd suspect that it is).
Don't take this personally or as attack on you, but saying you did everything correct is just not true. You probably did many things correctly--but you, like many others in bubble states, failed to take into account the wild difference in housing prices as compared to rent. That factor alone would most likely have stopped you from buying to begin with. Or not. I don't know for sure, but it's usually the case.
What I'm saying is I think it's important to take away something from this situation. Learn what you could have done to prevent getting to this spot, and then teach it to your children. Tell them how it's important not only to buy a house within their means, but how it's crucial to put 20% down and make sure that home prices are in-line with what people are willing to pay to rent a similar place.
You sound like an honest man who just wants to do what's right. I hear you on that and applaud you for it. Because of that, try not to take the idea of defaulting as a reflection of your personal character. You entered an agreement with the bank that says you either pay X amount every month or we take back the home. Defaulting is part of the contract and a course of action they are fully aware of; in this case, they're even recommending you do it. So understand that choosing to default, even if you can pay the mortgage, does not make you a bad person.
I thought it would be fun to try home brewing since DH is/was such a beer drinker and always enjoyed trying new beers. We got a Mr. Beer kit for Christmas one year, and for awhile it was a fun couples thing to do. I'm not entirely sure it actually saved us any money at all, but we enjoyed the experience. After awhile, though, it became MY task to do everything while DH continued to drink the end product. I got pretty fed up with all the work involved and eventually sold everything off on ebay. So, yeah, it's fun, and if we'd had a bigger kitchen where 2 people could move around without constantly bumping into one another, it might have continued as a project for both of us to enjoy. :)
Friend of mine in the steam boiler business told me water expands to steam about 600 times the original value! But that does not really mater too much. We are not transferring the volume of water from one kettle to the next, but transferring the heat.
Water at sea level boils at 100 C. about 212 F I think. But the steam can increase to melt steal. If you heat it to steam, it's 212 F, do not coil it to cool on the way to the thumper. Insulate it if you like so it carries the heat better. The shorter and fatter the pipe, should be the better. If it expands at 600 times the original volume, we should be safe to use it to transfer 212+ degrees to the thumper without running out of water. The more back pressure you build, the higher the boiling point and the hotter the steam. Remember to not pinch off too much of the end as to stop the steam, only slow it down so it can come out the extra holes. From this thumper, we run the condenser. If you run multiple thumpers, you run the risk of loosing too much heat, and building up too much pressure. That could result in an explosion.
The more you ask, the better picture we can draw. The more people that read this, with diverse skills, can help us tweak it for laymen, not lab techs.
A couple of years ago, I had a non-life threatening back problem that was suddenly complicated by the fact that I passed out (probably due to pain doctors later said). But because I passed out, no regular doctor wanted to touch me--malpractice fears in the off chance that passing out had been due to some other strange and rare problem. So we went to the ER later in the morning and waited an entire day--not fun!
In the future, I think I'd just go straight to ER if I ever passed out--perhaps calling the doctor first.
Griff, thank you so much for your service and sacrifice. Having the appreciation for simple life can be hard to come by but it sounds like you are there. The support of a community, whether it is a small town or a group of friends or a faith community, can make a difference in the day-to-day, which is the best I can offer as far as advice right now.
I agree with the post about bed bugs. You should be very careful about buying any used furniture from someone you do not know. Bed bugs are increasingly common. (You should also be thinking about fleas and cockroaches.) Many people associate them with poverty however you can find them even in high priced hotel rooms. The eggs and the bugs can be hidden in the crevices of bed frames, dressers etc. Pretty much anything found in a bedroom or around where people are sleeping. Once you get them it requires lots of pesticides, detailed cleaning and throwing out of curtains and linens. I personally feel that if you are in the market for furniture only purchase from someone you know or save for new high quality furniture that you will keep.
As a side note. When you go to ANY hotel leave your bags outside the room until you have checked the room for bedbugs. You do this by folding up the linens on the mattress. Look for any small stains on the mattress that could be dried blood or poo from a bed bug (dark red dots). They like small crevices. They often hide in the seams of the mattress. You can also look where the headboard meets the wall. As an extra precaution you can keep your bags and cloths in the tub. This sounds paranoid until you know how common they are and how difficult they are to get rid of.
You brought up a very good side point in this post. And that is the existence of a landline.
With MagicJacks and all the others being all the rage these days, a lot of people don't realize this point about them. You would be located much faster in an emergency if you have a traditional landline.
We stil went ahead and got our MagicJack, but this was probably the biggest sticking point. It is defintiely something worth considering.
One day, when I'm not bound to living in apartments as a way to get by, I am going to look into doing this myself. I honestly am not even that big of a beer drinker, but the thought of bringing something like this to fruition just seems like it would be rewarding.
If I can make something good, it might help me appreciate beer more as well. Another thing to add to the list of "things to do when I have money."
Report the theft to police as soon as you find out. I cannot stress this enough. The longer a thief has with the car, the longer the thief has to find, remove and disable any OEM or aftermarket tracking system.
The best way to learn winter driving is to find a safe place where you can practise breaking and sliding! Nothing can prepare your for an emergency like trying to break and avoid an obstacle on a slippery surface.
This article is a great read! It made me think that our properties, which we often believed to be our assets, are actually classified as liabilities. I've spent quite a lot in building my house and that's enough for me to call it as a liability...
hmmmm....
loveandsalt makes a great point about remodeling.
Another option might be to rent a storage unit for all the stuff in the garage (buying you some space) while you wait for the market to recover (which it eventually will do).
Best of luck however you decide to move forward (although I would agree that an attorney and accountant should be your first stops before doing ANYTHING)
I have to agree with JT and Diane.
So many folks believe that their house is always appreciating. We've found out more than ever in the past few years that what goes up must come down. And now so many folks are looking for someone to blame or bail them out.
This is not a personal attack, but sometimes when we're in the thick of emotional mess, we need to step back and look inward. It might help to figure out what we should or could have done differently in order to avoid it in the future.
Good luck!
Just wondering--can you stay where you are and put on some kind of addition--building out or up? This is a tough situation. If you CAN ride it out you will do better than if you have to trash your credit and lose what you've put in.
I have a mortgage with Citi. I'm not in the situation you are in. But I find their customer service and customer relations appalling. I will never do business with them once I can get out of this mortgage.
I understand your desire for more space. But I think JT has some very valid points. I would just add that markets do go backup. It may not be for a while but the value of your house will increase some day. Waiting it out is still a valid option to consider.
Good luck on whatever you end up doing.
I liked all the suggestions. It is a new approach to finding job in today's market. Thanks,
Thanks for sharing. This kind of insanity is the type of thing that I wouldn't know about now that I live abroad. There's no excuse for this kind of banking practice.
I'm going to pull my money out of any bank that received TARP funds and that I suspect of having unethical lending practices.
Very upsetting news. I hope you figure this one out in a way that works for you.
I am not very sympathetic. You've been able to make the payments for 7 years, so it isn't like this is unaffordable property. Yes, you want to move, but you may not be able to at this time and may need to wait for the market to recover. When you bought the house did you really believe that you would be guaranteed a profit on the purchase, and would always be able to sell at a positive delta (or even break even)? If so, that is naive. Property values go up. They go down. A house is illiquid and frankly not the best investment for guaranteeing gain as you have discovered.
The fact that the house is worse less isn't the mortgage folder's fault (well, maybe in a macroeconomic sense, but still...). If you sold at a profit, would you give back some of your gain to the bank, "just because"? SNo? So how is selling at a loss their problem? Given that fact, the ball is in their court. Whatever their conditions, they get to decide. Even if their conditions are silly. Frankly, they don't have to do this at all.
I am basically in the same position, several years ago our home was valued at $240,000 I re-financed to $160,000 thinking I was leaving lots of room for equity and now my home is worth $120,000. It just makes me sick. My neighbors did a short sale, it took them almost a year. The other two houses on either side of me are both vacant, making it that much harder for me to sell my home, I have considered a short sale, and considered walking away, I just do not know how it would hit my credit, my ability to get a new home afterwords, or would I be stuck renting for a few years first?
I'm a Paramedic and I can't comment enough on being thorough and honest with your medical history and the current situation. There are a lot of good treatments we have available to help people, but there are many with specific contraindications or reasons to not use a drug or treatment.
If you want good care specific to your needs, then make sure that you tell the EMS or ER crews everything that is going on.
A quick emergency-related tip for those who don't have a traditional landline: keep an emergency phone connected to the landline connection, which should allow you to call 911 even if you don't pay for monthly service. Also, program emergency numbers into your cell phone for quick access.
Paul,
Glad you were willing to share. As I tell everyone in this situation, SPEAK WITH AN ATTORNEY. Seriously, do it today. Find a good attorney who specializes in foreclosures and put down a retainer. It will probably also help to speak with an accountant about some of the numbers as well.
These two people will help you way more than CitiMortgage reps ever will. They'll be able to help you decide if walking away is the best bet for you or not (I'd suspect that it is).
Don't take this personally or as attack on you, but saying you did everything correct is just not true. You probably did many things correctly--but you, like many others in bubble states, failed to take into account the wild difference in housing prices as compared to rent. That factor alone would most likely have stopped you from buying to begin with. Or not. I don't know for sure, but it's usually the case.
What I'm saying is I think it's important to take away something from this situation. Learn what you could have done to prevent getting to this spot, and then teach it to your children. Tell them how it's important not only to buy a house within their means, but how it's crucial to put 20% down and make sure that home prices are in-line with what people are willing to pay to rent a similar place.
You sound like an honest man who just wants to do what's right. I hear you on that and applaud you for it. Because of that, try not to take the idea of defaulting as a reflection of your personal character. You entered an agreement with the bank that says you either pay X amount every month or we take back the home. Defaulting is part of the contract and a course of action they are fully aware of; in this case, they're even recommending you do it. So understand that choosing to default, even if you can pay the mortgage, does not make you a bad person.
I thought it would be fun to try home brewing since DH is/was such a beer drinker and always enjoyed trying new beers. We got a Mr. Beer kit for Christmas one year, and for awhile it was a fun couples thing to do. I'm not entirely sure it actually saved us any money at all, but we enjoyed the experience. After awhile, though, it became MY task to do everything while DH continued to drink the end product. I got pretty fed up with all the work involved and eventually sold everything off on ebay. So, yeah, it's fun, and if we'd had a bigger kitchen where 2 people could move around without constantly bumping into one another, it might have continued as a project for both of us to enjoy. :)
Friend of mine in the steam boiler business told me water expands to steam about 600 times the original value! But that does not really mater too much. We are not transferring the volume of water from one kettle to the next, but transferring the heat.
Water at sea level boils at 100 C. about 212 F I think. But the steam can increase to melt steal. If you heat it to steam, it's 212 F, do not coil it to cool on the way to the thumper. Insulate it if you like so it carries the heat better. The shorter and fatter the pipe, should be the better. If it expands at 600 times the original volume, we should be safe to use it to transfer 212+ degrees to the thumper without running out of water. The more back pressure you build, the higher the boiling point and the hotter the steam. Remember to not pinch off too much of the end as to stop the steam, only slow it down so it can come out the extra holes. From this thumper, we run the condenser. If you run multiple thumpers, you run the risk of loosing too much heat, and building up too much pressure. That could result in an explosion.
The more you ask, the better picture we can draw. The more people that read this, with diverse skills, can help us tweak it for laymen, not lab techs.
A couple of years ago, I had a non-life threatening back problem that was suddenly complicated by the fact that I passed out (probably due to pain doctors later said). But because I passed out, no regular doctor wanted to touch me--malpractice fears in the off chance that passing out had been due to some other strange and rare problem. So we went to the ER later in the morning and waited an entire day--not fun!
In the future, I think I'd just go straight to ER if I ever passed out--perhaps calling the doctor first.
Griff, thank you so much for your service and sacrifice. Having the appreciation for simple life can be hard to come by but it sounds like you are there. The support of a community, whether it is a small town or a group of friends or a faith community, can make a difference in the day-to-day, which is the best I can offer as far as advice right now.
I agree with the post about bed bugs. You should be very careful about buying any used furniture from someone you do not know. Bed bugs are increasingly common. (You should also be thinking about fleas and cockroaches.) Many people associate them with poverty however you can find them even in high priced hotel rooms. The eggs and the bugs can be hidden in the crevices of bed frames, dressers etc. Pretty much anything found in a bedroom or around where people are sleeping. Once you get them it requires lots of pesticides, detailed cleaning and throwing out of curtains and linens. I personally feel that if you are in the market for furniture only purchase from someone you know or save for new high quality furniture that you will keep.
As a side note. When you go to ANY hotel leave your bags outside the room until you have checked the room for bedbugs. You do this by folding up the linens on the mattress. Look for any small stains on the mattress that could be dried blood or poo from a bed bug (dark red dots). They like small crevices. They often hide in the seams of the mattress. You can also look where the headboard meets the wall. As an extra precaution you can keep your bags and cloths in the tub. This sounds paranoid until you know how common they are and how difficult they are to get rid of.
You brought up a very good side point in this post. And that is the existence of a landline.
With MagicJacks and all the others being all the rage these days, a lot of people don't realize this point about them. You would be located much faster in an emergency if you have a traditional landline.
We stil went ahead and got our MagicJack, but this was probably the biggest sticking point. It is defintiely something worth considering.
We have purchased a car with a roof mounted DVD player XM1045CB. We are in Australia, PLEASE help me change the region so we can use it. Thanks
One day, when I'm not bound to living in apartments as a way to get by, I am going to look into doing this myself. I honestly am not even that big of a beer drinker, but the thought of bringing something like this to fruition just seems like it would be rewarding.
If I can make something good, it might help me appreciate beer more as well. Another thing to add to the list of "things to do when I have money."
Report the theft to police as soon as you find out. I cannot stress this enough. The longer a thief has with the car, the longer the thief has to find, remove and disable any OEM or aftermarket tracking system.
The best way to learn winter driving is to find a safe place where you can practise breaking and sliding! Nothing can prepare your for an emergency like trying to break and avoid an obstacle on a slippery surface.
Very informative article. It may help a lot of people
It is a really fun way to drive! Nice article!
Well I've seen people walk through walls and i know its an illusion and I want to learn how to. Do you know???
This article is a great read! It made me think that our properties, which we often believed to be our assets, are actually classified as liabilities. I've spent quite a lot in building my house and that's enough for me to call it as a liability...
hmmmm....
Ronchie here of omaha hvac