Persistance does pay. I remember a particularly convoluted run around on behalf of my elderly mother. It took six months to resolve a medication billing error. I did all you suggested and wrote five letters (the last one, quite funny actually, to the recalcitrant computer, refering to him as "Hal".) I finally found a sympatheic young fellow in the billing department who advocated for Mom within the company by writing internal memos to the computer people. What do ill elderly people do, if they have no one to advocate for them? My mom would have been in a horrible bind if she had to do it on her own.
I think our generation nowadays is inclined or obsessed with owning material things. It is a culture of what we have in terms of money, properties, cars, etc.
Interesting you mentioned LTF. I am from MN which is where the owner of LTF's is from. This week in our business section of the newspaper they had an interview with him. He talked about the cutbacks they are making ie: staffing cutbacks, only going to build 3 new ones instead of 12, offering less for new memberships and more cut backs in hours, daycare. personal trainers and advertising.The stock in the company is not doing well, and he is looking at how much fat he can cut from the businesses without losing clients. This guy is a real jerk. I will be curious what you will get when this contract expires and you look at signing a new contract.
The so called freebies you mention: Sport Authority is a very spendy place, so I would be better off paying full price for a gift card for someone at another store where the value of $100 would get them a lot more bang for the buck. Tanning is bad for you, and LTF used to include that for free in their memberships. I would be interested in knowing which bank(s)this offer is with as far as the reduced closing costs.
It would be nice if you follow up on this and let us know when you use any of these perks if they actually are as good as LTF says they are. Keep us posted Paul.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Awesome! I'm very envious you were able to retire after 15 years on Wall St. It sounds like you are having a GREAT time and enjoying every minute of retired life.
Just thinking of working for 20 years after you've already worked for 15 years on Wall St. sounds tiring. Maybe strike a balance, and take several more years off to make it 5 years, and then jump back in for 5 years to buffer your retirement fund. Sounds like you will be well paid if you jump back in given your experience.
Hope you live a healthy life until 99!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
I think that no one would be shocked by the family's income, since my husband is in the military, and salaries are published. I think they would be shocked to know how much we had in savings, however.
After having to quit my job because my husband was reassigned to another base halfway across the country, and then shortly afterward giving birth to our first child, I was surprised to find that we are still saving a significant amount of money despite living on a single income.
This is really inspiring! Life goes by too fast & I don't want to be stuck chasing after a number into my late 60s. Setting an earlier target is motivating to work hard now and reap the rewards sooner. I tend to get distracted with things and procrastinate so moving up my retirement age will keep a fire under my pants so I won't waste time & will instead stay focused on finding ways to save and earn more money now. :) Thanks Financial Samurai.
I left Wall Street 2 years ago after being a corporate rat for 15 years, with plenty of sleep deprivation to show for and no time to enjoy the money I earned. I slept about 3 hrs a night and every vacation I took I worked thru it. So I "retired" myself and since then got my 8 hrs of sleep, hit the gym, travelled the world over, read and wrote a lot, reconnected and bonded with friends and family, so in short, I regained my life.
I have loved every moment of my "retirement" thus far, inspite of the economic crisis. But because of the crisis, my former clients who are significantly older than me all told me to go back to work, that I am way too young to retire, that I should work for another 20 years to replenish my nest egg. There are days I do wonder if retirement is all that cut out to be as I was always validated by my work. And I do wonder if I shouldn't be working for the next 20 years just to make sure I have enough cushion should I live to 99 (my paternal grandma is 99, my maternal grandma lived to 99, and my mom is 74 and more fit than me, God blesses them)?
My temporary conclusion is that there is never a good time or a good number to decide on one's retirement. For me it was a combination of timing, circumstances and desire, and having started working at age 12 and always lived below my means, I felt it was a good time to get off the treadmill for a while. I don't know what my next chapter will look like yet, but I know I want to be productive but I would not trade a quality life style for money, I just want to earn enough to cover my burn rate and health insurance coverage should I live to 99!
If you've got a professional you're working with anyway sometimes having that office call gets further. I used to call health insurance companies occasionally for my clients and it seemed to help. At least I could usually get clarification of the issue so the problem could get resolved faster.
If you are going to get a pension, that's fantastic. It's funny that demographic experts say that the highest group of savers are actually the 24-32 year olds because they don't believe they will have pensions or social security to help them out in the future.
I believe things are pretty rational. If you like your job, and want a more luxurious retirement, then work as long as you can. Many others hate the job their working at, but have to do it out of necessity.
Sounds like you are living quite frugally, which is great. How do I shoot for a 1:1 ratio? Just simple math really... work no more than 30 years after college, "retire" for 30 years and call it a good life at 82 :) Every year beyond 82, I will count as a blessing. As I said in my post, I will bank on 100 to be conservative wrt to my spending, but don't expect to get there!
Retirement to me does not mean do nothing. Instead, it means do EVERYTHING i've always wanted to do but couldn't b/c I was stuck working!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Debbie!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
@Jansen - Great tip about traveling in the off-season, and not being afraid to ask for a discount, beyond what you find on the internet. Thanks! That's true Wise Bread thinking! (smiles)
Of course the roadblocks are intentional. It's easy to pay your insurance premiums; it's much, much harder to make a claim. The bureaucratic kudzu of making an actual claim is intended to defeat you.
When I met my inlaws for the first time in 1981 and in rural Alabama, I had to use the bathroom. As I was walking to what I thought was the bathroom, my Mother in Law handed me the Sears catalog. My new husband said the outhouse was behind the barn and to bring a gun. OH MY!
Growing up in a very large city, I was absolutely flabbergasted.
My great-grandparents, grandparents and my parents all followed the above rules. I know them inside out. I have taught them to my children. My children can squeeze a dollar bill until it screams. They have completed their college education with NO debt. They shop at thrift stores, keep their cars for years. They are only a few who believe that being frugal is a good thing.
I am afraid that the next generation, who did not have the wonderful backgroud of thrift, will sell us down a river of debt.
If you’re trying for a 1:1 work:retirement ratio, how do you guess years in retirement? Is it different if you come from a long-lived family?
People in my family live into their mid eighties, and my health is above average for my family. So if I live to be 90, then since I started working at age 17, does that mean I retire at 53? Or since I didn’t start working full-time until age 27, does that mean I can’t retire until age 58?
I’m not in credit card debt, my house is half the median value of houses in my area, and my cars are about 15% of my yearly salary. Does that mean I get to retire now? If so, all I have to do is learn to live on $200/month. With that money I could eat every day and even buy ibuprofen and band-aids. I could hang out at the library reading and web surfing all day, but I was sort of hoping to sleep indoors.
Actually, if I cash in my pension, I could have $400/month. But even if my house were paid off and I kept a roommate, that would barely cover my taxes, insurance, maintenance, and utilities. I guess I don’t really need insurance or utilities (besides water). I’d rather have food.
The problem is that I want a much more luxurious retirement. I want shoes. And I like to watch movies. And I like to go places that aren’t walking distance. And if I got an expensive illness or injury, I’d really like a chance to have that fixed up.
That said, I do actually have an age I'm aiming for rather than a number: it's the age at which I'm eligible for my pension if I keep working for the same employer and they don't change the pension rules. I'm saving extra in case they change the pension rules, but I can't quite save enough extra to switch employers.
I would like to have enough money someday to be able to volunteer, but I can't imagine not having "a job." It's how I define my life, I enjoy it, and I can't imagine ever stopping.
I called a Major health provider, (It starts with blue), and asked for a name. I had two names. Each time they said, there was no one there with that name! What's person to do!
I don't ever want to be controlled by money. I saw what money did to one immediate family member, and I promise I will never let it get the best of me.
I might not have enough money in 20 years when I'm 50, but I'm sure as heck going to do my darndest to try and get there!
As important it is to call them & keep records of that - it is also good to WRITE LETTERS and have a paper trail. You can then also copy people you think might be helpful - like your state's rep for dealing with HMO's - and ALSO send copies of any paperwork you have received - perhaps from an outside provider. I had an instance years ago of an emergency procedure that was covered by my HMO - but for some reason I kept getting bills from the out-of-state hospital. I keep the said hospital on ice for more than 6 months while assuring them via copies of correspondence with my HMO that I was dealing with it - (They wanted ME to pay out of pocket rather than the HMO and I didn't have the $.)It finally turned out that the out-of-town physician hadn't filed the right paperwork for reimbursement by my HMO & it finally did get paid (without me having to put forth a penny of my own.)I also managed to get coverage I had been denied by a gatekeeper, by writing a scathing letter to the head of that department! Squeaky wheels get greased, especially when dealing with HMOs!
Guest - $90,000 is just a number. It can be the US median of $45,000 a year, or $1 million a year. 28-29 year old kids out of business school are earning $100-140,000/yr according to US News & World Report. Oakland Dockworkers are making $100-160,000/yr in "Fortunes, Fortunes, Everywhere." Meanwhile, over 448 San Francisco City workers make over $100,000 a year, and they aren't even working! The point is, there's NEVER enough money, so why bother after a certain age?
You are absolutely right wrt to health care expenses, the topic du jour for all of us nowadays. Finger's crossed we all live healthy lives, have long term care insurance to pay for these expenses, and have at the very least, a government to do something about ridiculous healthcare costs!
I'd rather be safe than sorry in living a full life, rather than spend my entire life just trying to make one more extra dollar after a certain age. No rewind button in life!
Thnx for reading and sharing.
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
Who is making $90,000/year from the time they are aged 20-50?
Also, this does not take into consideration the costs of assisted living, should that become necessary, which it often does. My husband's grandmother was paying $6,000/month just to live in a comfortable facility, before her savings were dwindled enough that she moved in with her son, and she's relatively healthy. A person is expected to support themselves until their net worth is nearly depleted, and then they may be ending up in a not-so-nice living situation.
I'd rather be safe than sorry, and leave any remnants to my kids.
Instead of setting up retirement funds for you children, I think a better method is to simply teach them about money and how to invest, save and budget. I sure wish my parents did this for me, it was not until I was in my 30s and had to file bankruptcy that I decided to learn about investing and saving. I opened up investment accounts last year for my neice (11) and nephews (5 & 14) and let them decide what they want to invest in. I started them out with a small bank roll that cant be touched and I put a little in there each month. We then go through what types of companies they want to invest in and they tell me why, surprisingly in that time frame their returns have been better than mine. The youngest (5yrs old) has made some very good choices and he told me he wants to put all his birthday money in the account (not sure I will let him do all his Bday money but he is starting to think in the right direction when it comes to money). I am so glad I started this, it has helped me get to know them better and brought us together (I live 6 hrs away from them). They call me nearly weekly so we can reveiw thier accounts and discuss any changes (buys/sells) they wish to make...and I also get to find out all other kinds of things that are going in their lives.
Leaving residual wealth to your loved ones is the catch-all. The debate then becomes, how much inheritance is enough, or too much.
Warren Buffet's kids aren't getting billions because Warren Buffet donated everything to Bill's foundation (Warren is the man!). The kids will never be poor, but as a percentage of Warren's wealth, the kids are getting a pittance.
I believe most people who can focus on their finances very early, and consistently for 30 years will be able to leave wealth to their kids, and still have money left over. The problem is its hard to know our life expectancy.
The balance is to then figure out how to consistently spend a balanced amount of money over one's lifetime, and not run out. But, I think we're too focused on money as a society, and not focused enough on just living.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
My in-laws are talking retirement and nearing it, but they are far from prepared for it. I don't think they realize that they need to sacrifice more now and change some of their bad habits to be able to provide for themselves in retirement. Instead, their "plans" change frequently but have one thing in common: dependance on someone or something else to fix the jam they've gotten themselves into.
I don't know what I can do to help them see the bigger picture and be more realistic, but I appreciate the advice given in this article and the comments.
Persistance does pay. I remember a particularly convoluted run around on behalf of my elderly mother. It took six months to resolve a medication billing error. I did all you suggested and wrote five letters (the last one, quite funny actually, to the recalcitrant computer, refering to him as "Hal".) I finally found a sympatheic young fellow in the billing department who advocated for Mom within the company by writing internal memos to the computer people. What do ill elderly people do, if they have no one to advocate for them? My mom would have been in a horrible bind if she had to do it on her own.
Great article! I admire your parents.
I think our generation nowadays is inclined or obsessed with owning material things. It is a culture of what we have in terms of money, properties, cars, etc.
Embracing lesson #8 will be helpful!
Interesting you mentioned LTF. I am from MN which is where the owner of LTF's is from. This week in our business section of the newspaper they had an interview with him. He talked about the cutbacks they are making ie: staffing cutbacks, only going to build 3 new ones instead of 12, offering less for new memberships and more cut backs in hours, daycare. personal trainers and advertising.The stock in the company is not doing well, and he is looking at how much fat he can cut from the businesses without losing clients. This guy is a real jerk. I will be curious what you will get when this contract expires and you look at signing a new contract.
The so called freebies you mention: Sport Authority is a very spendy place, so I would be better off paying full price for a gift card for someone at another store where the value of $100 would get them a lot more bang for the buck. Tanning is bad for you, and LTF used to include that for free in their memberships. I would be interested in knowing which bank(s)this offer is with as far as the reduced closing costs.
It would be nice if you follow up on this and let us know when you use any of these perks if they actually are as good as LTF says they are. Keep us posted Paul.
Apprentice For Life,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Awesome! I'm very envious you were able to retire after 15 years on Wall St. It sounds like you are having a GREAT time and enjoying every minute of retired life.
Just thinking of working for 20 years after you've already worked for 15 years on Wall St. sounds tiring. Maybe strike a balance, and take several more years off to make it 5 years, and then jump back in for 5 years to buffer your retirement fund. Sounds like you will be well paid if you jump back in given your experience.
Hope you live a healthy life until 99!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
I think that no one would be shocked by the family's income, since my husband is in the military, and salaries are published. I think they would be shocked to know how much we had in savings, however.
After having to quit my job because my husband was reassigned to another base halfway across the country, and then shortly afterward giving birth to our first child, I was surprised to find that we are still saving a significant amount of money despite living on a single income.
This is really inspiring! Life goes by too fast & I don't want to be stuck chasing after a number into my late 60s. Setting an earlier target is motivating to work hard now and reap the rewards sooner. I tend to get distracted with things and procrastinate so moving up my retirement age will keep a fire under my pants so I won't waste time & will instead stay focused on finding ways to save and earn more money now. :) Thanks Financial Samurai.
I left Wall Street 2 years ago after being a corporate rat for 15 years, with plenty of sleep deprivation to show for and no time to enjoy the money I earned. I slept about 3 hrs a night and every vacation I took I worked thru it. So I "retired" myself and since then got my 8 hrs of sleep, hit the gym, travelled the world over, read and wrote a lot, reconnected and bonded with friends and family, so in short, I regained my life.
I have loved every moment of my "retirement" thus far, inspite of the economic crisis. But because of the crisis, my former clients who are significantly older than me all told me to go back to work, that I am way too young to retire, that I should work for another 20 years to replenish my nest egg. There are days I do wonder if retirement is all that cut out to be as I was always validated by my work. And I do wonder if I shouldn't be working for the next 20 years just to make sure I have enough cushion should I live to 99 (my paternal grandma is 99, my maternal grandma lived to 99, and my mom is 74 and more fit than me, God blesses them)?
My temporary conclusion is that there is never a good time or a good number to decide on one's retirement. For me it was a combination of timing, circumstances and desire, and having started working at age 12 and always lived below my means, I felt it was a good time to get off the treadmill for a while. I don't know what my next chapter will look like yet, but I know I want to be productive but I would not trade a quality life style for money, I just want to earn enough to cover my burn rate and health insurance coverage should I live to 99!
If you've got a professional you're working with anyway sometimes having that office call gets further. I used to call health insurance companies occasionally for my clients and it seemed to help. At least I could usually get clarification of the issue so the problem could get resolved faster.
Debbie,
If you are going to get a pension, that's fantastic. It's funny that demographic experts say that the highest group of savers are actually the 24-32 year olds because they don't believe they will have pensions or social security to help them out in the future.
I believe things are pretty rational. If you like your job, and want a more luxurious retirement, then work as long as you can. Many others hate the job their working at, but have to do it out of necessity.
Sounds like you are living quite frugally, which is great. How do I shoot for a 1:1 ratio? Just simple math really... work no more than 30 years after college, "retire" for 30 years and call it a good life at 82 :) Every year beyond 82, I will count as a blessing. As I said in my post, I will bank on 100 to be conservative wrt to my spending, but don't expect to get there!
Retirement to me does not mean do nothing. Instead, it means do EVERYTHING i've always wanted to do but couldn't b/c I was stuck working!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Debbie!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
@Jansen - Great tip about traveling in the off-season, and not being afraid to ask for a discount, beyond what you find on the internet. Thanks! That's true Wise Bread thinking! (smiles)
Of course the roadblocks are intentional. It's easy to pay your insurance premiums; it's much, much harder to make a claim. The bureaucratic kudzu of making an actual claim is intended to defeat you.
You need to do everything you mention here, and remember that persistence is the main ingredient.
When I met my inlaws for the first time in 1981 and in rural Alabama, I had to use the bathroom. As I was walking to what I thought was the bathroom, my Mother in Law handed me the Sears catalog. My new husband said the outhouse was behind the barn and to bring a gun. OH MY!
Growing up in a very large city, I was absolutely flabbergasted.
I passed.
My great-grandparents, grandparents and my parents all followed the above rules. I know them inside out. I have taught them to my children. My children can squeeze a dollar bill until it screams. They have completed their college education with NO debt. They shop at thrift stores, keep their cars for years. They are only a few who believe that being frugal is a good thing.
I am afraid that the next generation, who did not have the wonderful backgroud of thrift, will sell us down a river of debt.
If you’re trying for a 1:1 work:retirement ratio, how do you guess years in retirement? Is it different if you come from a long-lived family?
People in my family live into their mid eighties, and my health is above average for my family. So if I live to be 90, then since I started working at age 17, does that mean I retire at 53? Or since I didn’t start working full-time until age 27, does that mean I can’t retire until age 58?
I’m not in credit card debt, my house is half the median value of houses in my area, and my cars are about 15% of my yearly salary. Does that mean I get to retire now? If so, all I have to do is learn to live on $200/month. With that money I could eat every day and even buy ibuprofen and band-aids. I could hang out at the library reading and web surfing all day, but I was sort of hoping to sleep indoors.
Actually, if I cash in my pension, I could have $400/month. But even if my house were paid off and I kept a roommate, that would barely cover my taxes, insurance, maintenance, and utilities. I guess I don’t really need insurance or utilities (besides water). I’d rather have food.
The problem is that I want a much more luxurious retirement. I want shoes. And I like to watch movies. And I like to go places that aren’t walking distance. And if I got an expensive illness or injury, I’d really like a chance to have that fixed up.
That said, I do actually have an age I'm aiming for rather than a number: it's the age at which I'm eligible for my pension if I keep working for the same employer and they don't change the pension rules. I'm saving extra in case they change the pension rules, but I can't quite save enough extra to switch employers.
I would like to have enough money someday to be able to volunteer, but I can't imagine not having "a job." It's how I define my life, I enjoy it, and I can't imagine ever stopping.
I called a Major health provider, (It starts with blue), and asked for a name. I had two names. Each time they said, there was no one there with that name! What's person to do!
.........Marv
I don't ever want to be controlled by money. I saw what money did to one immediate family member, and I promise I will never let it get the best of me.
I might not have enough money in 20 years when I'm 50, but I'm sure as heck going to do my darndest to try and get there!
As important it is to call them & keep records of that - it is also good to WRITE LETTERS and have a paper trail. You can then also copy people you think might be helpful - like your state's rep for dealing with HMO's - and ALSO send copies of any paperwork you have received - perhaps from an outside provider. I had an instance years ago of an emergency procedure that was covered by my HMO - but for some reason I kept getting bills from the out-of-state hospital. I keep the said hospital on ice for more than 6 months while assuring them via copies of correspondence with my HMO that I was dealing with it - (They wanted ME to pay out of pocket rather than the HMO and I didn't have the $.)It finally turned out that the out-of-town physician hadn't filed the right paperwork for reimbursement by my HMO & it finally did get paid (without me having to put forth a penny of my own.)I also managed to get coverage I had been denied by a gatekeeper, by writing a scathing letter to the head of that department! Squeaky wheels get greased, especially when dealing with HMOs!
Guest - $90,000 is just a number. It can be the US median of $45,000 a year, or $1 million a year. 28-29 year old kids out of business school are earning $100-140,000/yr according to US News & World Report. Oakland Dockworkers are making $100-160,000/yr in "Fortunes, Fortunes, Everywhere." Meanwhile, over 448 San Francisco City workers make over $100,000 a year, and they aren't even working! The point is, there's NEVER enough money, so why bother after a certain age?
You are absolutely right wrt to health care expenses, the topic du jour for all of us nowadays. Finger's crossed we all live healthy lives, have long term care insurance to pay for these expenses, and have at the very least, a government to do something about ridiculous healthcare costs!
I'd rather be safe than sorry in living a full life, rather than spend my entire life just trying to make one more extra dollar after a certain age. No rewind button in life!
Thnx for reading and sharing.
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
Who is making $90,000/year from the time they are aged 20-50?
Also, this does not take into consideration the costs of assisted living, should that become necessary, which it often does. My husband's grandmother was paying $6,000/month just to live in a comfortable facility, before her savings were dwindled enough that she moved in with her son, and she's relatively healthy. A person is expected to support themselves until their net worth is nearly depleted, and then they may be ending up in a not-so-nice living situation.
I'd rather be safe than sorry, and leave any remnants to my kids.
Instead of setting up retirement funds for you children, I think a better method is to simply teach them about money and how to invest, save and budget. I sure wish my parents did this for me, it was not until I was in my 30s and had to file bankruptcy that I decided to learn about investing and saving. I opened up investment accounts last year for my neice (11) and nephews (5 & 14) and let them decide what they want to invest in. I started them out with a small bank roll that cant be touched and I put a little in there each month. We then go through what types of companies they want to invest in and they tell me why, surprisingly in that time frame their returns have been better than mine. The youngest (5yrs old) has made some very good choices and he told me he wants to put all his birthday money in the account (not sure I will let him do all his Bday money but he is starting to think in the right direction when it comes to money). I am so glad I started this, it has helped me get to know them better and brought us together (I live 6 hrs away from them). They call me nearly weekly so we can reveiw thier accounts and discuss any changes (buys/sells) they wish to make...and I also get to find out all other kinds of things that are going in their lives.
Leaving residual wealth to your loved ones is the catch-all. The debate then becomes, how much inheritance is enough, or too much.
Warren Buffet's kids aren't getting billions because Warren Buffet donated everything to Bill's foundation (Warren is the man!). The kids will never be poor, but as a percentage of Warren's wealth, the kids are getting a pittance.
I believe most people who can focus on their finances very early, and consistently for 30 years will be able to leave wealth to their kids, and still have money left over. The problem is its hard to know our life expectancy.
The balance is to then figure out how to consistently spend a balanced amount of money over one's lifetime, and not run out. But, I think we're too focused on money as a society, and not focused enough on just living.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Keigu,
Financial Samurai
"Slicing Through Money's Mysteries"
Leaving an inheritance of some sort is a goal for many people with children.
I would love to check out and leave my kids enough money to put their kids through college.
My in-laws are talking retirement and nearing it, but they are far from prepared for it. I don't think they realize that they need to sacrifice more now and change some of their bad habits to be able to provide for themselves in retirement. Instead, their "plans" change frequently but have one thing in common: dependance on someone or something else to fix the jam they've gotten themselves into.
I don't know what I can do to help them see the bigger picture and be more realistic, but I appreciate the advice given in this article and the comments.