As the non-yard person on my street, I do appreciate your post. Apparently, besides my yard not being too noticeable to many passerbys as I live at the end of a dead-end street, I have been deemed socially acceptable b/c I have supported the neighbor kids in their efforts to raise money for school, scouts, etc. And of course, we do cut the grass and do a bit of tree and shrub trimming.
It is not logical that one person's choices will condemn another's opposite choices but apparently there is truth there. In fact, I attended a conference a few weeks ago and the speaker said that many people feel that way and urged the audience to accept others as they are, and not feel threatened by other's decisions.
But as the yard example indicate, sometimes our choices can directly affect our neighbors. And (I have thought about this before), I do intend to learn more about gardening but if any of my neighbors intended on selling their homes soon, I'd hire some assistance.
Well, here in Spain, you cannot get a driving license if you are not able to drive with manual transmission. In fact, I have NEVER seen a car with automatic transmission in my whole life over here.
Oh, by the way, if you eat or drink or use your mobile while driving, the police stops the car and you get a HUGE fine.
Perceived criticism tends to happen when somebody you know does something outside of the friendship or group norm. Even if the changing person doesn't preach about their new ways, those "left behind" can feel that there is a certain degree of judgment being passed over them. Some particularly prevalent examples I've seen are:
Reformed Smokers. Quit smoking, and suddenly the taste and smell of tobacco doesn't seem so nice, and your wallet doesn't seem so perpetually empty. Your smoking friends, though may feel like they're being made out to be lesser people for not quitting themselves. This may be an entirely self-imposed feeling of guilt or shame, and have very little to do with the reformed smoker's actions or words.
Born Again Parents. Having children changes your life; no doubt about that. But when parents (usually new ones) talk about how life without children has no meaning or direction, people without kids aren't left feeling like they add much value if a childless life is meaningless anyway. This is usually unintentional on the part of the new parents, but can create sometimes unpassable rifts in the friendship.
As for freeloading, I agree with your points, Philip. Accepting an offer of generosity is not always freeloading; especially if you would do the same for them if the roles were reversed, and if the offer is voluntary - not invited or expected.
But there comes a point when relying on the generosity of others too much (even if the offers are genuine) can cross a line and go too far into the freeloading category. Where the line is, is dependent on the type of friendship and individuals involved.
I personally am much more "well-to-do" than most of the people I work with having sold off some businesses..I went back to work because I was bored silly and I get Health Insurance here.
I've been on a couple of Cruises with others from work and enjoyed them but they keep pressuring me to take more time off and "spend more of my money" enjoying myself.
I can't seem to make them understand that taking a couple of vacations a year is not exactly how I've set my life up...I'm perfectly content to stay home and read a book on the chaise lounge in the yard...the only difference between the back yard and the cruise ship is...is...actually my chaise lounge is more comforable.
At this point of my life (as a single person) it's more about doing what "I" want to do when I want to than what other people "think" I should do.
I got the same arguments 4 weeks ago after I was hit on my motorcycle by a hit and run street racer...other than a totalled bike and some road rash by some miracle I was fine.
I replaced the bike and all I've gotten from everyone is grief that I didn't buy a car instead...I have an older model truck and if I wanted to run around on four wheels I would have just used it....I LIKE the motorcycle and as my brother said after putting 45,000 miles on the old bike the law of averages just caught up with me.
I don't follow the herd mentality and it does get to be a pain sometimes.
As a lanlord, I'm shocked when I read your comment about a "month to month lease", because here in Spain, we are forced to make 5-year contracts. And we cannot claim eviction, if they don't pay the rent.
Even though, people is not willing to pay a 600 EUR (835 USD) rent, because average salary is around 1000 EUR (1400 USD) for most people.
At a certain park by where I live run by a mouse a Smoked Turkey Leg is $8.50 plus Tax. (A larger one is $3.38 at the nearby Wally World)
Twelve Ounce can soda from a machine is $2.50.
Twenty Four ounce Lemonoade is $3.75 plus Tax.
The three Mickey D's on the property don't have any Value Menu selections...what's a $1 off property is $2.59 on.
And in the employee cafeterias the Subway is not allowed to sell the $5 subs and the cheapest footlong is $8.79....FOR THE EMPLOYEES NO LESS!!
Consequently I can see the advice to eat first or pack you own..(as long as they don't catch it at the entrance...as a guest you're not allowed to bring in your own, employees are at least allowed too.)
I haven't ever seen those "rebate" system in my country, Spain.
If a product doesn't work at all, you can take it back to the store. Most of the times they won't give your money back, you must buy other things from the store.
But noone will ever grant you a rebate if you're not satisfied with the product, or if it doesn't suit your needs.
Furthermore, as the Judicial System is completely collapsed (trials at courts may last 5 or 6 years to start resolution) noone tries to sue companies, either stores or manufacturers.
For example, my Brother printer self-cleans every night, even being off (thought switched on) and empties the ink cartridges. That was NOT advertised, but when you call to Brother, they just laugh at you.
What can you expect from a country where companies never use toll-free numbers for their customer services, but premium-rate expensive numbers ... doh!
The bill says that it starts on July 1st. But the president hasnt signed it yet. Does this mean that even thought it hasn't come into effect yet, if I buy a car on July 2nd for example, I can claim the voucher, whenever it does get signed, and thereby get upto $4500 towards my trade-in?
I bought my last car new, and it did lose about 20% of its value when I drove it off the lot. So what? I am planning on driving it for at least 10 years, if not longer. What has always worried me about used cars is how did the previous owner treat the car? Was the proper maintenance done? How did they drive? By purchasing the car new, I can make sure that it is properly maintained.
Which leads me to point 2 - I do get my oil changed every 3 months, which is typically around 3,000 miles. My car could go longer, I know. But this way I have a professional looking at the car every 3 months. I am lucky that I have a very good mechanic that I trust. He has found worn brake pads before rotors were damaged, and other small problems before they turned into big expensive problems. Over the years I have noticed that doing things this way I spend a lot less on repairs than my friends who don't take preventive maintenace as seriously.
Yeah, freeloading is a delicate topic. There are so many levels. Sure, there's the guy who always wants a ride--very tiresome. But there's also the guy without a car who rejects most offers of group outings because he can't offer rides and doesn't want to be a freeloader--sad for his friends who'd be glad for his company and miss out.
My own sense is that it's definitely okay to freeload to the extent that I'm piggybacking on something that was freely offered (i.e. I didn't request an invite, or even hint that I'd be pleased to be invited) and already happening (e.g. riding in a car that's already going that way, watching a TV that would already be turned on).
But what if that second isn't true? What if I know someone is going out of their way to help me out? How much such help can I acccept? I don't know the answer.
Even harder, how much help is it okay to ask for? Quite a bit, I'd say, if you're in a position to reciprocate. Maybe not so much if you're not--but how much? None at all? I don't know those answers either.
Paul--As one who appreciates fine sarcasm, you hit a bullseye with me.
Content is what counts, and this article is deep on that. Sarcasm is just the flavor, and like all flavors, it only makes the content more interesting.
I enjoyed this article. It was funny... which is what I needed at the end of my long work day. We all make excuses to why we spend the way we do. It's nice to see someone call us on it.
Sometime one's frugality is only possible because of ones reliance on other. E.g the guy who won't buy a car but is always asking his friends for rides. Or the guy who won't buy a TV and never entertains but is over at your home whenever the big game is on to drink your beer.
I know it sounds completely ridiculous, but on the West coast, if you go to a fair or a sporting event, hot dogs cost $8. I'm from the midwest and wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes!
Ok, tone of the article aside, lot's of good little tips (phrased as anti-tips) here and a reminder for myself, of the money I've wasted in the past. Liked the part about buying songs instead of full albums. This is precisely why the CD is a dying relic.
And #30 - I am kind of down on printed books lately, anyway. As a former bibliophile (nearly a thousand books), I like that i can now fit my library on my IPOD touch. Kindle books and PDF versions are generally cheaper (at least for the non-fiction I like to read) and I think that as the technology gains greater acceptance, the price will come down even further. I don't know if it will ever obsolete the printed book, mostly because it's currently difficult to pirate electronic books (i.e. rip your library to digital) but I do like the fact that my house is not overflowing with books in every nook and cranny. I kind of just let go of my books and started anew (no i did not re-purchase my printed books as digital books). I have ten favorite printed books on a small bookshelf and that's it.
As one who has not been historically frugal, I can attest to this annoyance. I have had the opportunity to observe my more thrifty friends in action, and while the situations you depict are sometimes per se annoying, they are often only noticeable when accompanied by something very small that will really get you talked about. This is so fixable! Rounding your part of a split check up to the nearest dollar from time to time goes a long way toward remedying your status as the group "miser." Offering to handle all the planning or labor for a family event in exchange for a smaller financial stake can also be an easy fix. Now that I'm cutting back, I make myself scarce for lunch time, and I don't answer calls after 9 or so that I know are just my friends wanting me to go out. It's not always easy, but it's possible not to be an jerk about your frugality.
I was in Vegas the past weekend and was debating tossing a few quarters around. Then I realized I've never even seen somebody else win in all the time I'd walked around casinos. How dumb could I be to think I have the slightest chance in winning anything really?
I kept my quarters to do my laundry. Best move I made there. Good tip!
Just a thought, but has anyone else considered that the author was being inflammatory and somewhat snarky in order to get all of this attention? It's a technique that has worked well for many people, including Perez Hilton and Bill O'Reilly.
I drive an 87 Nissan Pulsar and I find that the difference in mileage I get with premium gas more than pays for the difference in price, typically an extra 4 to 6 miles per gallon for an extra 20 to 40 cents. Plus, the engine runs much cleaner and more efficiently and will last longer.
Also, I like lending money to friends who need it knowing I won't get it back. I never lend money to anyone expecting to get it back. Should I stop giving money to people who need it when I already have enough? I find it pays off in the long run because it makes my life happier. I probably pay less in medical expenses or something.
The comment by Chris is out of line and I totally agree with #4's response to your slanderous statement. Stop trying to censor people. Don't like it? Don't read it.
Chris, like there are billions of other articles on the internet, there are many time more comments. Why don't you keep your comment on the article not the responses.
The other day we got a phone call from a guy who claimed he has been trying to contact one of our neighbors and asked me if I would give them a message to call him. He was very friendly and seemed to know my neighbors, but his request seemed odd to me. I went online and entered the phone number he had given me to determine if he was legit. It turned out that he was connected with a debt collection agency. I guess his tactic was to embarass my neighbors with my awareness of their debt. I never delivered his message. This seems like an unfair practice by the collection agency.
Whoa now, #22. Me calling someone snarky is the same as murder? Really? And you're saying *I* am the one with a poor sense of perspective?
As for the "don't take it seriously" thing, I can't say I'm outraged or even particularly bothered. This is, after all, the thoughts of one random person on the Internet, and affects me only until I close this browser window or unsubscribe from this RSS feed. But that doesn't change the fact that the information here is exaggerated (hot dogs) or false/misleading (fuel octane), and the tone of the post was... nasty.)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I commented on this post to correct a piece of advice I know to be bad, and to raise my hand to say that this article is not the kind of thing I want to read in the future.
As the non-yard person on my street, I do appreciate your post. Apparently, besides my yard not being too noticeable to many passerbys as I live at the end of a dead-end street, I have been deemed socially acceptable b/c I have supported the neighbor kids in their efforts to raise money for school, scouts, etc. And of course, we do cut the grass and do a bit of tree and shrub trimming.
It is not logical that one person's choices will condemn another's opposite choices but apparently there is truth there. In fact, I attended a conference a few weeks ago and the speaker said that many people feel that way and urged the audience to accept others as they are, and not feel threatened by other's decisions.
But as the yard example indicate, sometimes our choices can directly affect our neighbors. And (I have thought about this before), I do intend to learn more about gardening but if any of my neighbors intended on selling their homes soon, I'd hire some assistance.
Well, here in Spain, you cannot get a driving license if you are not able to drive with manual transmission. In fact, I have NEVER seen a car with automatic transmission in my whole life over here.
Oh, by the way, if you eat or drink or use your mobile while driving, the police stops the car and you get a HUGE fine.
Thank you, Philip for this great post!
Perceived criticism tends to happen when somebody you know does something outside of the friendship or group norm. Even if the changing person doesn't preach about their new ways, those "left behind" can feel that there is a certain degree of judgment being passed over them. Some particularly prevalent examples I've seen are:
As for freeloading, I agree with your points, Philip. Accepting an offer of generosity is not always freeloading; especially if you would do the same for them if the roles were reversed, and if the offer is voluntary - not invited or expected.
But there comes a point when relying on the generosity of others too much (even if the offers are genuine) can cross a line and go too far into the freeloading category. Where the line is, is dependent on the type of friendship and individuals involved.
I personally am much more "well-to-do" than most of the people I work with having sold off some businesses..I went back to work because I was bored silly and I get Health Insurance here.
I've been on a couple of Cruises with others from work and enjoyed them but they keep pressuring me to take more time off and "spend more of my money" enjoying myself.
I can't seem to make them understand that taking a couple of vacations a year is not exactly how I've set my life up...I'm perfectly content to stay home and read a book on the chaise lounge in the yard...the only difference between the back yard and the cruise ship is...is...actually my chaise lounge is more comforable.
At this point of my life (as a single person) it's more about doing what "I" want to do when I want to than what other people "think" I should do.
I got the same arguments 4 weeks ago after I was hit on my motorcycle by a hit and run street racer...other than a totalled bike and some road rash by some miracle I was fine.
I replaced the bike and all I've gotten from everyone is grief that I didn't buy a car instead...I have an older model truck and if I wanted to run around on four wheels I would have just used it....I LIKE the motorcycle and as my brother said after putting 45,000 miles on the old bike the law of averages just caught up with me.
I don't follow the herd mentality and it does get to be a pain sometimes.
As a lanlord, I'm shocked when I read your comment about a "month to month lease", because here in Spain, we are forced to make 5-year contracts. And we cannot claim eviction, if they don't pay the rent.
Even though, people is not willing to pay a 600 EUR (835 USD) rent, because average salary is around 1000 EUR (1400 USD) for most people.
We're doomed.
if you want to pay high dollar.
At a certain park by where I live run by a mouse a Smoked Turkey Leg is $8.50 plus Tax. (A larger one is $3.38 at the nearby Wally World)
Twelve Ounce can soda from a machine is $2.50.
Twenty Four ounce Lemonoade is $3.75 plus Tax.
The three Mickey D's on the property don't have any Value Menu selections...what's a $1 off property is $2.59 on.
And in the employee cafeterias the Subway is not allowed to sell the $5 subs and the cheapest footlong is $8.79....FOR THE EMPLOYEES NO LESS!!
Consequently I can see the advice to eat first or pack you own..(as long as they don't catch it at the entrance...as a guest you're not allowed to bring in your own, employees are at least allowed too.)
But Tongue in Cheek articles are still good.
I haven't ever seen those "rebate" system in my country, Spain.
If a product doesn't work at all, you can take it back to the store. Most of the times they won't give your money back, you must buy other things from the store.
But noone will ever grant you a rebate if you're not satisfied with the product, or if it doesn't suit your needs.
Furthermore, as the Judicial System is completely collapsed (trials at courts may last 5 or 6 years to start resolution) noone tries to sue companies, either stores or manufacturers.
For example, my Brother printer self-cleans every night, even being off (thought switched on) and empties the ink cartridges. That was NOT advertised, but when you call to Brother, they just laugh at you.
What can you expect from a country where companies never use toll-free numbers for their customer services, but premium-rate expensive numbers ... doh!
We're doomed.
The bill says that it starts on July 1st. But the president hasnt signed it yet. Does this mean that even thought it hasn't come into effect yet, if I buy a car on July 2nd for example, I can claim the voucher, whenever it does get signed, and thereby get upto $4500 towards my trade-in?
I'd like to include:
Don't research the quality of products before you buy them. Get the cheapest one and watch it break in a few months.
Buy the newest electronic gadget / game system the day it comes out, who cares if the price will drop in a month or two.
Don't buy index funds. Pay a large management fee to get the same or worse results over time.
Never calculate the unit price in the grocery store. Just buy what the big yellow sticker tells you to.
Skip the matinee, watch the same movie for full price in a crowded theater.
I bought my last car new, and it did lose about 20% of its value when I drove it off the lot. So what? I am planning on driving it for at least 10 years, if not longer. What has always worried me about used cars is how did the previous owner treat the car? Was the proper maintenance done? How did they drive? By purchasing the car new, I can make sure that it is properly maintained.
Which leads me to point 2 - I do get my oil changed every 3 months, which is typically around 3,000 miles. My car could go longer, I know. But this way I have a professional looking at the car every 3 months. I am lucky that I have a very good mechanic that I trust. He has found worn brake pads before rotors were damaged, and other small problems before they turned into big expensive problems. Over the years I have noticed that doing things this way I spend a lot less on repairs than my friends who don't take preventive maintenace as seriously.
@ Khürt:
Yeah, freeloading is a delicate topic. There are so many levels. Sure, there's the guy who always wants a ride--very tiresome. But there's also the guy without a car who rejects most offers of group outings because he can't offer rides and doesn't want to be a freeloader--sad for his friends who'd be glad for his company and miss out.
My own sense is that it's definitely okay to freeload to the extent that I'm piggybacking on something that was freely offered (i.e. I didn't request an invite, or even hint that I'd be pleased to be invited) and already happening (e.g. riding in a car that's already going that way, watching a TV that would already be turned on).
But what if that second isn't true? What if I know someone is going out of their way to help me out? How much such help can I acccept? I don't know the answer.
Even harder, how much help is it okay to ask for? Quite a bit, I'd say, if you're in a position to reciprocate. Maybe not so much if you're not--but how much? None at all? I don't know those answers either.
Paul--As one who appreciates fine sarcasm, you hit a bullseye with me.
Content is what counts, and this article is deep on that. Sarcasm is just the flavor, and like all flavors, it only makes the content more interesting.
Keep at it!
I enjoyed this article. It was funny... which is what I needed at the end of my long work day. We all make excuses to why we spend the way we do. It's nice to see someone call us on it.
$9 for a tiny piece of steak on a stick, and $8 for a turkey leg.
Sometime one's frugality is only possible because of ones reliance on other. E.g the guy who won't buy a car but is always asking his friends for rides. Or the guy who won't buy a TV and never entertains but is over at your home whenever the big game is on to drink your beer.
I know it sounds completely ridiculous, but on the West coast, if you go to a fair or a sporting event, hot dogs cost $8. I'm from the midwest and wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes!
Ok, tone of the article aside, lot's of good little tips (phrased as anti-tips) here and a reminder for myself, of the money I've wasted in the past. Liked the part about buying songs instead of full albums. This is precisely why the CD is a dying relic.
And #30 - I am kind of down on printed books lately, anyway. As a former bibliophile (nearly a thousand books), I like that i can now fit my library on my IPOD touch. Kindle books and PDF versions are generally cheaper (at least for the non-fiction I like to read) and I think that as the technology gains greater acceptance, the price will come down even further. I don't know if it will ever obsolete the printed book, mostly because it's currently difficult to pirate electronic books (i.e. rip your library to digital) but I do like the fact that my house is not overflowing with books in every nook and cranny. I kind of just let go of my books and started anew (no i did not re-purchase my printed books as digital books). I have ten favorite printed books on a small bookshelf and that's it.
As one who has not been historically frugal, I can attest to this annoyance. I have had the opportunity to observe my more thrifty friends in action, and while the situations you depict are sometimes per se annoying, they are often only noticeable when accompanied by something very small that will really get you talked about. This is so fixable! Rounding your part of a split check up to the nearest dollar from time to time goes a long way toward remedying your status as the group "miser." Offering to handle all the planning or labor for a family event in exchange for a smaller financial stake can also be an easy fix. Now that I'm cutting back, I make myself scarce for lunch time, and I don't answer calls after 9 or so that I know are just my friends wanting me to go out. It's not always easy, but it's possible not to be an jerk about your frugality.
I was in Vegas the past weekend and was debating tossing a few quarters around. Then I realized I've never even seen somebody else win in all the time I'd walked around casinos. How dumb could I be to think I have the slightest chance in winning anything really?
I kept my quarters to do my laundry. Best move I made there. Good tip!
Just a thought, but has anyone else considered that the author was being inflammatory and somewhat snarky in order to get all of this attention? It's a technique that has worked well for many people, including Perez Hilton and Bill O'Reilly.
I drive an 87 Nissan Pulsar and I find that the difference in mileage I get with premium gas more than pays for the difference in price, typically an extra 4 to 6 miles per gallon for an extra 20 to 40 cents. Plus, the engine runs much cleaner and more efficiently and will last longer.
Also, I like lending money to friends who need it knowing I won't get it back. I never lend money to anyone expecting to get it back. Should I stop giving money to people who need it when I already have enough? I find it pays off in the long run because it makes my life happier. I probably pay less in medical expenses or something.
The comment by Chris is out of line and I totally agree with #4's response to your slanderous statement. Stop trying to censor people. Don't like it? Don't read it.
Chris, like there are billions of other articles on the internet, there are many time more comments. Why don't you keep your comment on the article not the responses.
The other day we got a phone call from a guy who claimed he has been trying to contact one of our neighbors and asked me if I would give them a message to call him. He was very friendly and seemed to know my neighbors, but his request seemed odd to me. I went online and entered the phone number he had given me to determine if he was legit. It turned out that he was connected with a debt collection agency. I guess his tactic was to embarass my neighbors with my awareness of their debt. I never delivered his message. This seems like an unfair practice by the collection agency.
Whoa now, #22. Me calling someone snarky is the same as murder? Really? And you're saying *I* am the one with a poor sense of perspective?
As for the "don't take it seriously" thing, I can't say I'm outraged or even particularly bothered. This is, after all, the thoughts of one random person on the Internet, and affects me only until I close this browser window or unsubscribe from this RSS feed. But that doesn't change the fact that the information here is exaggerated (hot dogs) or false/misleading (fuel octane), and the tone of the post was... nasty.)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I commented on this post to correct a piece of advice I know to be bad, and to raise my hand to say that this article is not the kind of thing I want to read in the future.