I am a brown bagger from way back. Your ideas are great, I try to mix it up as well to keep lunch interesting! I make my own "peanut butter sandwich crackers" , and cheese crackers as well, way cheaper than the pre-packed store bought version. Dry cereal is an awesome snack, and a nice add-in to yogurt or cottage cheese.
I don't know how many times I've had the discussion with other frugal friends about how much easier it feels to "tow the frugal line" when you are doing it and seeing results versus when you have to do it because you have absolutely no choice and you won't see any increase in the quality of your life at the end of the month.
Voluntary simplicity and frugality is all about the choice factor, and you are so right . . . having a choice about it makes all the difference in the world. We spent a fair amount of time in Cambodia during our recent around the world backpacking trip. Seeing the orphans and severely poverty stricken families there really reminded me of this.
I bought a townhouse, which is more complex than living in a condo, simply because there's a bit of outdoors to deal with and several levels to live on. Now, I'm happy with the purchase, because my net worth is MUCH higher than it was two years ago, but I have to admit that I am completely overwhelmed by the work that it takes to care for the place. Getting it decorated (nothing fancy), painted, and keeping it clean and functioning has been amazingly difficult.
I recently added several pots of flowers around the house, and while they look amazing, it's just ANOTHER damn thing that I have to take care of every morning. If I had a roommate or a husband it might be one thing, because then I could split some of the responsibility. But it's just me (and sometimes my parents, when they take pity on me and come over to help me for a weekend), and it's EXHAUSTING.
Fantastic post! I don't think I realized the difference between voluntary simplicity and poverty until recently. I've definitely lived in poverty, and I've lived a middle class lifestyle without being frugal. Now I'm aiming toward voluntary simplicity. I'm just sick of all the stuff. I'd rather focus on what's important.
At the end I kept thinking about the elephant in the room you avoided, namely buying a condominium. It would avoid many of the problems you mentioned, and in some parts of the country the mortgage isn't that much more than rent.
And you end up owning something without "throwing it down the toilet".
I ordered a box of paper online because I had a coupon and free shipping. I ended paying $15, and ordered a couple of other things - my total was around $18.00.
The paper came. Two reams were open. The "box" of paper was short by 2 reams, as well.
I called customer service, and they refunded the full price of the 4 reams of paper - $16.00. I told her I had paid half price and the entire box of 12 reams only cost $15...she said she could only refund the regular price, not the discounted price.
The next day, the extra two reams of paper showed up. They had been mailed separately because some genius in the warehouse took OUT the reams of paper in order to put IN my other things. So Office Max paid me $1 to take their 12 reams of paper, and paid to ship it twice.
This is an excellent post. I've been poor and I've been middle-class and frugal, and I agree with you, the two are worlds apart. When you're living frugally, you generally reap some benefits, like savings, and all the emotional security and options that savings provide. Poverty has no benefits, no buffer zone. I still remember the stress I felt over my child's growth spurt, because I had no money for new shoes or clothing for him (not even second-hand). It was scary living in poverty.
Good for you! I've always thought the financial arguments behind a house (throwing away money, tax break) were overstated. My wife and I own our house. While it's the right decision for us, we still fondly remember our apartment days.
I don't know if Condos are a valid option for you in the future, but they seem to be a good compromise between the financial benefits of a house and the low-maintenance of an apartment. Of course you have to deal with the association in that case..
When I added up all the stuff that my (admittedly excellent) apartment includes in the rent (your list plus: heat, water, sewer, garbage, and basic cable), I came to the conclusion that you could give me a house for free, and I couldn't live in it as cheaply as I live in my apartment.
I still hope to buy a house someday, but I'll know that I'm paying extra for the amenities and the extra control over my space.
I was a home owner for 14 years and was continually in debt and stressed out from HOAs breathing down my neck, yardwork I couldn't do or pay someone else to do, furniture I couldn't afford, repairs, taxes, etc. etc. I have rented a cute little apartment now for 2 years and have paid off the $17,500 credit card debt that being a house owner caused me. Problem with bugs, light bulbs, heaters, anything at all...the apartment office complex handles EVERYTHING for free. I mail back those annoying realtor "don't you feel like a loser apartment renter' postcards I get each day in the mail, telling them to leave me alone, that they're wrong, I LOVE renting and wish I'd done it sooner. I am a single mother. Now we can take vacations and buy shoes. In my area the cheapest house would cost me probably $400 more a month alone in the mortgage. I am so happy renting, it's ridiculous.
There are probably many places to get this kind of information, but fatwallet.com is a good example of people figuring out how to use rebates and coupons creatively at OfficeMax to get free or nearly free stuff.
Doesn't seem as easy as what you are talking about but it is the same idea.
Good for you for ignoring the pressure to buy your home. Nearly everything you read or hear about owning vs. renting leads you to believe that only losers rent. It's rare to hear about the downside to owning. Maintenance of a home is a tremendous amount of work and if you're not able/willing to do it yourself, it's extremely expensive to hire someone. I've put thousands of dollars into my home for routine upkeep - far more money than I'm gaining from the tax write-offs for owning. Never again!
If you're not ready for the taxes as a homeowner, you're not ready for the taxes as a renter. In most states, property tax rates are higher on rental property than on owner-occupied homes. Landlords do not act altruistically - their property taxes are factores into the rent they charge.
My son't GF has a brand new PT cruiser and sat on the hood and it dented. He tried using a plunger but it would not remove the dents. Before I advise them to try one of the two or possibly both methods above, has anyone experienced any damage at all to the paint? The poor girl's parents are flipping out on her as is.
I've been getting some of these now for a few months, not as good as the ones you described, they all have been $10 off a $20 purchase. I was there yesterday, second time I used it. I now have enough paper to last me a year and all my other office supplies that I need. Next time I'll look for that external hard drive case you picked up. If you really want to go nuts with them, check out on eBay for OfficeMax coupons and you'll find 100 cartridges you can exchange for $300 worth of merchandise (only $15/day/person).
I use Dr. Bronner's as a body wash! Even the most "hypo-allergenic" products would still make me itchy, but castile soap never has at all. It's awesome!
Lay, I can so relate to your situation but the only problem is as positive as you can be it is still horrible to stay in that situation. I just want a job I can go in, have a reasonable day get on with the people I work with and come home, when you have to start playing mind games with people, ignoring them, dealing with them in a certain way it all just gets you down even more, I know it did me.
One place I worked had a lot of the issues you rasied I tried my hardest to think positive and put myself in control and yes it did help a lot but I found the place was getting me so down I was having to go over all my positive thoughts, choices and motivations on a daily basis, my journey there and back home was purey just going over and over these things and that in itself got me down!
The advice given though is excellent but there comes a point where even with this self awareness and positive thought soemtimes all you can do is just leave to make things truely better.
Your math does not involve common sense. Someone with a good status, or nice things becomes a target in an area without targets making it impossible to get from the burglar barred front door to the car without wheels on it in the driveway when you have to go grocery shopping or to work. Work? What's that? in that neighborhood.
I live $5K below the poverty level, if I count medical expenses. I'm sponging off my family because of said medical expenses.
But I remind myself how rich I am. It gets me through the day,
My children are fine young men. I have family -biological and chosen - with whom I exchange amazing amounts of love.
I have clean sheets whenever I want. I can take a shower whenever I want. I have stuff to eat and drink. I have the luxury of a pet - and even though he's low maintenance, he IS a luxury.
I have access to a television. (Mine broke and I won't bother to replace it - but I've had offers of gifts.) I have Internet, and my own computer, and the skills to use them.
I have the ability to earn a living, and I love my job.
I have a roof over my head, and doors to come and go as I please.
I have my vision. I can read, and I found a church that sells books for a quarter, once a month. I have a library card. I thank my parents for teaching me to read, even though they laugh when I do.
I can drive. When I take my parents, who don't drive, to the doctor, I can repay them, somewhat, for what they do for me.
I have knowledge that I can share - and I do, all the time. I know a little about a lot of things, and I can talk to anyone. I also know how to ask for help - for myself or for others.
I have clean clothes. I have cosmetics, and inexpensive jewelry that makes me feel prettier when I wear it.
Even with money so tight, I can manage a few bucks for a homeless veteran, a care package for a soldier, or a donation to a charity.
So true - we in the West have had it good for so long that it often is purely taken for granted that this is the just the way life is. Of course its not easy for everyone in the West, but compared to the billions of people on Earth who don't have clean drinking water and have never even used a telephone (let alone a mobile phone), its a world away.
I am a brown bagger from way back. Your ideas are great, I try to mix it up as well to keep lunch interesting! I make my own "peanut butter sandwich crackers" , and cheese crackers as well, way cheaper than the pre-packed store bought version. Dry cereal is an awesome snack, and a nice add-in to yogurt or cottage cheese.
I don't know how many times I've had the discussion with other frugal friends about how much easier it feels to "tow the frugal line" when you are doing it and seeing results versus when you have to do it because you have absolutely no choice and you won't see any increase in the quality of your life at the end of the month.
Voluntary simplicity and frugality is all about the choice factor, and you are so right . . . having a choice about it makes all the difference in the world. We spent a fair amount of time in Cambodia during our recent around the world backpacking trip. Seeing the orphans and severely poverty stricken families there really reminded me of this.
Thanks so much for posting on this topic!
I bought a townhouse, which is more complex than living in a condo, simply because there's a bit of outdoors to deal with and several levels to live on. Now, I'm happy with the purchase, because my net worth is MUCH higher than it was two years ago, but I have to admit that I am completely overwhelmed by the work that it takes to care for the place. Getting it decorated (nothing fancy), painted, and keeping it clean and functioning has been amazingly difficult.
I recently added several pots of flowers around the house, and while they look amazing, it's just ANOTHER damn thing that I have to take care of every morning. If I had a roommate or a husband it might be one thing, because then I could split some of the responsibility. But it's just me (and sometimes my parents, when they take pity on me and come over to help me for a weekend), and it's EXHAUSTING.
Fantastic post! I don't think I realized the difference between voluntary simplicity and poverty until recently. I've definitely lived in poverty, and I've lived a middle class lifestyle without being frugal. Now I'm aiming toward voluntary simplicity. I'm just sick of all the stuff. I'd rather focus on what's important.
Andrea..., are you my sister??
That's scary and funny. My dad taught me a very valueable lesson about allowing professionals to do what they are good at.
Sorry about the mustard boat.
At the end I kept thinking about the elephant in the room you avoided, namely buying a condominium. It would avoid many of the problems you mentioned, and in some parts of the country the mortgage isn't that much more than rent.
And you end up owning something without "throwing it down the toilet".
I ordered a box of paper online because I had a coupon and free shipping. I ended paying $15, and ordered a couple of other things - my total was around $18.00.
The paper came. Two reams were open. The "box" of paper was short by 2 reams, as well.
I called customer service, and they refunded the full price of the 4 reams of paper - $16.00. I told her I had paid half price and the entire box of 12 reams only cost $15...she said she could only refund the regular price, not the discounted price.
The next day, the extra two reams of paper showed up. They had been mailed separately because some genius in the warehouse took OUT the reams of paper in order to put IN my other things. So Office Max paid me $1 to take their 12 reams of paper, and paid to ship it twice.
Mama Says
Thanks. I should have had that on my list: Living in poverty is scary.
This is an excellent post. I've been poor and I've been middle-class and frugal, and I agree with you, the two are worlds apart. When you're living frugally, you generally reap some benefits, like savings, and all the emotional security and options that savings provide. Poverty has no benefits, no buffer zone. I still remember the stress I felt over my child's growth spurt, because I had no money for new shoes or clothing for him (not even second-hand). It was scary living in poverty.
Good for you! I've always thought the financial arguments behind a house (throwing away money, tax break) were overstated. My wife and I own our house. While it's the right decision for us, we still fondly remember our apartment days.
I don't know if Condos are a valid option for you in the future, but they seem to be a good compromise between the financial benefits of a house and the low-maintenance of an apartment. Of course you have to deal with the association in that case..
When I added up all the stuff that my (admittedly excellent) apartment includes in the rent (your list plus: heat, water, sewer, garbage, and basic cable), I came to the conclusion that you could give me a house for free, and I couldn't live in it as cheaply as I live in my apartment.
I still hope to buy a house someday, but I'll know that I'm paying extra for the amenities and the extra control over my space.
I was a home owner for 14 years and was continually in debt and stressed out from HOAs breathing down my neck, yardwork I couldn't do or pay someone else to do, furniture I couldn't afford, repairs, taxes, etc. etc. I have rented a cute little apartment now for 2 years and have paid off the $17,500 credit card debt that being a house owner caused me. Problem with bugs, light bulbs, heaters, anything at all...the apartment office complex handles EVERYTHING for free. I mail back those annoying realtor "don't you feel like a loser apartment renter' postcards I get each day in the mail, telling them to leave me alone, that they're wrong, I LOVE renting and wish I'd done it sooner. I am a single mother. Now we can take vacations and buy shoes. In my area the cheapest house would cost me probably $400 more a month alone in the mortgage. I am so happy renting, it's ridiculous.
There are probably many places to get this kind of information, but fatwallet.com is a good example of people figuring out how to use rebates and coupons creatively at OfficeMax to get free or nearly free stuff.
Doesn't seem as easy as what you are talking about but it is the same idea.
Good for you for ignoring the pressure to buy your home. Nearly everything you read or hear about owning vs. renting leads you to believe that only losers rent. It's rare to hear about the downside to owning. Maintenance of a home is a tremendous amount of work and if you're not able/willing to do it yourself, it's extremely expensive to hire someone. I've put thousands of dollars into my home for routine upkeep - far more money than I'm gaining from the tax write-offs for owning. Never again!
If you're not ready for the taxes as a homeowner, you're not ready for the taxes as a renter. In most states, property tax rates are higher on rental property than on owner-occupied homes. Landlords do not act altruistically - their property taxes are factores into the rent they charge.
Hello,
My son't GF has a brand new PT cruiser and sat on the hood and it dented. He tried using a plunger but it would not remove the dents. Before I advise them to try one of the two or possibly both methods above, has anyone experienced any damage at all to the paint? The poor girl's parents are flipping out on her as is.
Thanks very much~
I've been getting some of these now for a few months, not as good as the ones you described, they all have been $10 off a $20 purchase. I was there yesterday, second time I used it. I now have enough paper to last me a year and all my other office supplies that I need. Next time I'll look for that external hard drive case you picked up. If you really want to go nuts with them, check out on eBay for OfficeMax coupons and you'll find 100 cartridges you can exchange for $300 worth of merchandise (only $15/day/person).
with a free underarm hair.
wait, now that I think about it I AM low on used Paris Hilton deodorant.
I'm deeply moved by your post. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your life with us. And thank you for being thankful!
I use Dr. Bronner's as a body wash! Even the most "hypo-allergenic" products would still make me itchy, but castile soap never has at all. It's awesome!
Lay, I can so relate to your situation but the only problem is as positive as you can be it is still horrible to stay in that situation. I just want a job I can go in, have a reasonable day get on with the people I work with and come home, when you have to start playing mind games with people, ignoring them, dealing with them in a certain way it all just gets you down even more, I know it did me.
One place I worked had a lot of the issues you rasied I tried my hardest to think positive and put myself in control and yes it did help a lot but I found the place was getting me so down I was having to go over all my positive thoughts, choices and motivations on a daily basis, my journey there and back home was purey just going over and over these things and that in itself got me down!
The advice given though is excellent but there comes a point where even with this self awareness and positive thought soemtimes all you can do is just leave to make things truely better.
Your math does not involve common sense. Someone with a good status, or nice things becomes a target in an area without targets making it impossible to get from the burglar barred front door to the car without wheels on it in the driveway when you have to go grocery shopping or to work. Work? What's that? in that neighborhood.
I live $5K below the poverty level, if I count medical expenses. I'm sponging off my family because of said medical expenses.
But I remind myself how rich I am. It gets me through the day,
My children are fine young men. I have family -biological and chosen - with whom I exchange amazing amounts of love.
I have clean sheets whenever I want. I can take a shower whenever I want. I have stuff to eat and drink. I have the luxury of a pet - and even though he's low maintenance, he IS a luxury.
I have access to a television. (Mine broke and I won't bother to replace it - but I've had offers of gifts.) I have Internet, and my own computer, and the skills to use them.
I have the ability to earn a living, and I love my job.
I have a roof over my head, and doors to come and go as I please.
I have my vision. I can read, and I found a church that sells books for a quarter, once a month. I have a library card. I thank my parents for teaching me to read, even though they laugh when I do.
I can drive. When I take my parents, who don't drive, to the doctor, I can repay them, somewhat, for what they do for me.
I have knowledge that I can share - and I do, all the time. I know a little about a lot of things, and I can talk to anyone. I also know how to ask for help - for myself or for others.
I have clean clothes. I have cosmetics, and inexpensive jewelry that makes me feel prettier when I wear it.
Even with money so tight, I can manage a few bucks for a homeless veteran, a care package for a soldier, or a donation to a charity.
So true - we in the West have had it good for so long that it often is purely taken for granted that this is the just the way life is. Of course its not easy for everyone in the West, but compared to the billions of people on Earth who don't have clean drinking water and have never even used a telephone (let alone a mobile phone), its a world away.