I have a lot of other pieces, just tell me what you need and I will go through the stash of extras to see if I can accomodate the request. Thats if you really want them.
First, I'm sorry, Paul. While I chose to rent and not buy during the bubble, despite being offered a 7-figure loan on no documented income (!!!!), I am infuriated by the irresponsibility of the homeowners who did take similar offers and are now getting bailed out.
We have ceased to have a free market because the government insists on putting an artificial floor in place. Econ 101: supply and demand. We need to get back to the appropriate point where the two meet. If the government continues to intervene like this, I think it will only extend buyers' unwillingness to get into real estate, and further exacerbate the recession.
Obviously this is a multifactorial problem with no easy solution, and I don't think transferring homes from people to banks will be any good.
What I would love to see is a requirement for foreclosure "victims" to provide free shelter for the homeless, women and children, and others who are turned away from conventional shelters due to lack of space. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and if you can't pay up for your house, you should work off your debt to the government.
That way our government can put the bailout money into social security, medicare, and other programs that will support taxpayers and our society as a whole.
Just wanted to clarify who really started this whole subprime mortgage busines: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A... (Hint: the Clinton administration). I know the Republicans inherited this mess and didn't really heed the warnings of some Congresspeople. But just wanted to set the record straight. Thanks!
can give you a rough idea Andrea, but it's not great. If you add in any upgrades, do your own comps, you can get close. But an appraiser is always better.
And once again, a commenter who has no idea what communism actually is.
Also, make sure to vote for McCain. He wants the government to buy these bad mortgages. That will be MUCH better for free market capitalism.
EPIC fail, Guest. You are welcome to try again.
Paul, I feel your pain. I actually don't know what my house is worth right now, and am kind of afraid to find out. I'm thinking of renting out half of it to give me a little more breathing room over the next few months.
"Welcome to the New American world of socialism. What's the big problem? When you pull down that lever on November 4th, if you vote for Obama plan on being angry for the next 4 years. Wait till you working folks with a job see your payroll taxes increase so you can share your wealth with those folks who don't work."
*sigh*
The financial, which could certainly be called socialistic in many respects, is happening under a Republican administration, with strong support from congressional Republicans (and Democrats). John McCain has proposed buying up bad mortgages. And yet, somehow, Obama is the socialist?
My husband and I are both educated, and we both work. We will not see an increase in payroll taxes under an Obama presidency because we, like most Americans, make less than $250,000 per year. (Having said that, I'll be happier with where the tax money I do pay goes under an Obama presidency than under a Bush/McCain presidency, since less of my money will be spent on the Iraq debacle.)
...it's McCain who initially presented the mortgage bailout plan, in the 2nd debate I believe. Which I found odd as it goes against the GOP party line.
And Carrie, Colorado was way overpriced. That, plus the silly mortgage deals, meant that house prices skyrocketed here really quickly and then plummeted. We got hit pretty hard, but things look to have hit the low and are bouncing back.
Welcome to the New American world of socialism. What's the big problem? When you pull down that lever on November 4th, if you vote for Obama plan on being angry for the next 4 years. Wait till you working folks with a job see your payroll taxes increase so you can share your wealth with those folks who don't work.
Yeah! Life in these here United States are going to be real good.
Ironically I'm moving out and getting my first condo. In all this turmoil I haven't really had an issue getting pre-approved for a mortgage aside from not having much to put down. But I have an excellent credit score, getting a good deal on a place, and have gone into "lock down" in preperation (cutting down the amount I'm putting into paying off credit cards, not shoveling money into savings, etc). After a few months I'll get a sense of how much money I can put where again.
That said, this whole bailout thing has furiated me. I was without a job for over a year, unemployment only went so far. no one helped me out, I plowed through it and working on paying off my credit cards I lived off of for that year... that was 6 years ago. Maybe I should stop paying those, have the government go "here, take this money and don't do it again" and problem solved! Of course, like other financially responsible people I'm not going to do that. but this whole helping people that messed up and punishing the people that did good is rediculous. and one look at the stock market and you can see how well it's been helping.
Wow, are you sure your house is down 15% when you bought 7 years ago? You must have been in a very hot market, no?
I wouldn't say we could know for sure that housing prices have bottomed out. Not at all.
And finally, I think if there is a bailout that helps people stay in their homes, it will be for the overall social good, whether it pisses people off or not. Will it benefit our society if say, 15 percent of homeowners are put out on the street? If we are walking around seeing one or two houses on every block with boarded up windows, getting broken into by squatters, if the banks are holding onto even more houses they can't unload? I'm nervous about the state of the country now, but at least we're not dealing with a massive wave of social unrest, homelessness and crime.
You will always be better off than people who need this kind of help, because you're smarter than they are. Be happy you're you and not them, no matter what they happen to be getting at the moment.
Yes, I'm not happy about the bailout either but hey my taxes go to pay to kill people in foreign countries and to teach children to just say no to biological imperatives they aren't going to say no to. So, money is always spent against my will.
I bought a mortgage 3 years ago. It's adjustable rate. But we also bought our house for cheap on an acre of land in an area that wasn't going to really drop that far. And it hasn't. And while we are shopping for a fixed, we are taking our time to get the best possible deal. We've been told by our own mortgage company that we don't qualify for any of their hardship programs because we have never fallen behind! LOL. C'est la vie. If not this it would be something else.
I'll be happy with the day when we spend money on arts, grants for American students to go into math and science, and other things dear to my heart. I won't hold my breath.
I'm livid too. I've been working my way through graduate school through this whole bubble and would have loved to live in a house for a number of reasons, and probably could have qualified for a subprime mortgage, but did the conservative thing and stayed in low-rent apartments. Other people made the aggressive choice, levereged themselves into very high risk-reward situations, and benefitted from the reward of living in lavish homes and having equity to spend as they chose. And I would accept that as part of the risk-reward nature of capitalism, except that now we've come to the "risk" part of the deal, and instead of the negative consequences affecting the people who took on the risk, it's being pushed on people like me through national debt and inflation. Meanwhile I'm still in a low-rent apartment and they're still in a lavish house.
If we're going to be a strict free market capitalist society, then we need to sit back let people sleep in the beds they've made, just like we let them profit from the winning bets. Or we could adopt the Scandinavian model of comprehensive, universal social programs that spread this kind of spending around in a consistent and roughly equitable way. But we need to choose one or the other, because these kinds of narrow, rush-job, emergency bailouts are unacceptable.
@MKB: Sorry, but if the government is taking my money away from me and giving it to other people because they made stupid decisions, then yes, I call that being punished for not making stupid mistakes.
@Guest: Those are different programs that address different problems. Who is responsible for and what causes poverty? That's a big question with no easy answer, and no easy solution. Why did a person agree to a mortgage so large that he/she couldn't afford it? Who is responsible for that person's decision? That's an easy question (or at least it should be.) You can't really lump all that into one category.
The fact that he grocery shops at all would be a dream for so many reasons, let alone being price conscious about it.
I think so many issues about food between parents are about control. But that's another story.
Lately Money Saving Mom has had several guest posts where people talk about combining coupons with the effort to eat more fresh and organic foods. The basic idea is to maximize coupons savings you CAN use and use the saved money, or the Catalina coupons, on the organic and whole foods that you want. For example, I am always going to use coupons on cereal and get it for $1 a box, and I am going to use coupons at CVS to get most of our toiletries, baby products and medicines free. That does free up some money for the organic produce I want.
But if you really find that you don't want ANYTHING shown in the coupon flyers, for goodness sake, save yourself the time! And if your husband really just brings home things you won't use, just turn over your charity budget to him and let him deliver his coupon steals right to the food bank. God knows, the food banks need all the help they can get right now.
yes, we are responsible and didn't knowlingly take on more than we could pay for (a mortgage for a zillion dollar house we when we made $20,000!)...etc, etc.
we did the right thing and we got screwed. and we have to pay for these greedy *)*)*)*)&)(.
"...we're afraid we won't be able to take out a home equity loan to pay for replacing the windows..."
Stop pre-paying the mortgage and put that money into a savings account. Then you can use that to replace the windows instead of borrowing to replace them.
It's in situations such as this that I often have to remind myself of two things:
1. Half of the population is of below average intelligence.
2. The people I hang out with, are generally, well above the average.
Basically, for me and probably for eveyrone else reading this, most of the people of this nation and this world just really aren't very smart by comparison.
This is, of course, not an excuse and not really much of an explaination, but it does help to keep things in perspective and help me understand where at least some of all of this mess is coming from. Still doesn't make it any less wrong but it does make it half a bit easier to stomach.
One other thing to make sure when you buy a home is to be absolutely sure that there is no prepayment penalty. In some mortgages, they will charge you extra if you make additional payments each month.
When I bought my house, I made this clear to the real estate broker and right before signing the mortgage papers, I asked them to show me the line where it says that there is no prepayment penalty. Please make sure that is written into the mortgage contract.
I haven't had television in decades. I was a tv junkie as a kid, but after moving to NYC, where there's no reception without cable, I was weaned but fast - I refuse to pay $90+/month for the thing! That was the best decision I've ever made, bar none.
Being without television is the most natural thing in the world. It's rather sad that the only conversations some people can have with one another is about whatever crap they watched the night before. Sometimes others treat me as a sort of Luddite fruitcake - how can you not watch Dancing With the Stars (or whatever the latest tv fad is)? Answer: Easily! Happily! Thrilled to have missed that! I read constantly, write, walk my dog, bike, play the piano, etc., etc. It's called real life, and it frightens many! "Where do you get your news?" they often ask. Yet I know just as much - more, actually - about current events than the tv addicts. Funny how a newspaper or web article can be more in-depth than a 10-second tv soundbite, eh?
I'd go so far as to say tv makes you stupid, but I don't want to sound like a Luddite fruitcake...
Yes, I am more than a bit put out -- as a single homeowner who bought two homes alone -- no handout from anyone -- this seems SO unfair
HOWEVER, I think we need to look at a slightly larger picture -- do we only do the right thing when someone is looking? Is it OK to knowingly cheat just because "everyone else is doing it"?
I fear the next wave of bailouts that WILL occur when the government is unable to pay for social security, medicare and other entitlement related services. I am pretty sure that govt will start taxing our 401(k) and Roth IRA's to pay for all this mess.
I have a lot of other pieces, just tell me what you need and I will go through the stash of extras to see if I can accomodate the request. Thats if you really want them.
First, I'm sorry, Paul. While I chose to rent and not buy during the bubble, despite being offered a 7-figure loan on no documented income (!!!!), I am infuriated by the irresponsibility of the homeowners who did take similar offers and are now getting bailed out.
We have ceased to have a free market because the government insists on putting an artificial floor in place. Econ 101: supply and demand. We need to get back to the appropriate point where the two meet. If the government continues to intervene like this, I think it will only extend buyers' unwillingness to get into real estate, and further exacerbate the recession.
Obviously this is a multifactorial problem with no easy solution, and I don't think transferring homes from people to banks will be any good.
What I would love to see is a requirement for foreclosure "victims" to provide free shelter for the homeless, women and children, and others who are turned away from conventional shelters due to lack of space. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and if you can't pay up for your house, you should work off your debt to the government.
That way our government can put the bailout money into social security, medicare, and other programs that will support taxpayers and our society as a whole.
Just wanted to clarify who really started this whole subprime mortgage busines: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A... (Hint: the Clinton administration). I know the Republicans inherited this mess and didn't really heed the warnings of some Congresspeople. But just wanted to set the record straight. Thanks!
I can tell. You hang out with the magic dragon, don't you?
can give you a rough idea Andrea, but it's not great. If you add in any upgrades, do your own comps, you can get close. But an appraiser is always better.
And once again, a commenter who has no idea what communism actually is.
Also, make sure to vote for McCain. He wants the government to buy these bad mortgages. That will be MUCH better for free market capitalism.
EPIC fail, Guest. You are welcome to try again.
Paul, I feel your pain. I actually don't know what my house is worth right now, and am kind of afraid to find out. I'm thinking of renting out half of it to give me a little more breathing room over the next few months.
If you can't beat them, join them? I would rather keep my good credit, vote for Obama, and wait for a change.
"Welcome to the New American world of socialism. What's the big problem? When you pull down that lever on November 4th, if you vote for Obama plan on being angry for the next 4 years. Wait till you working folks with a job see your payroll taxes increase so you can share your wealth with those folks who don't work."
*sigh*
The financial, which could certainly be called socialistic in many respects, is happening under a Republican administration, with strong support from congressional Republicans (and Democrats). John McCain has proposed buying up bad mortgages. And yet, somehow, Obama is the socialist?
My husband and I are both educated, and we both work. We will not see an increase in payroll taxes under an Obama presidency because we, like most Americans, make less than $250,000 per year. (Having said that, I'll be happier with where the tax money I do pay goes under an Obama presidency than under a Bush/McCain presidency, since less of my money will be spent on the Iraq debacle.)
...it's McCain who initially presented the mortgage bailout plan, in the 2nd debate I believe. Which I found odd as it goes against the GOP party line.
And Carrie, Colorado was way overpriced. That, plus the silly mortgage deals, meant that house prices skyrocketed here really quickly and then plummeted. We got hit pretty hard, but things look to have hit the low and are bouncing back.
I don't understand why anyone is angry?
Welcome to the New American world of socialism. What's the big problem? When you pull down that lever on November 4th, if you vote for Obama plan on being angry for the next 4 years. Wait till you working folks with a job see your payroll taxes increase so you can share your wealth with those folks who don't work.
Yeah! Life in these here United States are going to be real good.
Hammer and sickle anyone?
Ha ha ha ha!
Ironically I'm moving out and getting my first condo. In all this turmoil I haven't really had an issue getting pre-approved for a mortgage aside from not having much to put down. But I have an excellent credit score, getting a good deal on a place, and have gone into "lock down" in preperation (cutting down the amount I'm putting into paying off credit cards, not shoveling money into savings, etc). After a few months I'll get a sense of how much money I can put where again.
That said, this whole bailout thing has furiated me. I was without a job for over a year, unemployment only went so far. no one helped me out, I plowed through it and working on paying off my credit cards I lived off of for that year... that was 6 years ago. Maybe I should stop paying those, have the government go "here, take this money and don't do it again" and problem solved! Of course, like other financially responsible people I'm not going to do that. but this whole helping people that messed up and punishing the people that did good is rediculous. and one look at the stock market and you can see how well it's been helping.
Wow, are you sure your house is down 15% when you bought 7 years ago? You must have been in a very hot market, no?
I wouldn't say we could know for sure that housing prices have bottomed out. Not at all.
And finally, I think if there is a bailout that helps people stay in their homes, it will be for the overall social good, whether it pisses people off or not. Will it benefit our society if say, 15 percent of homeowners are put out on the street? If we are walking around seeing one or two houses on every block with boarded up windows, getting broken into by squatters, if the banks are holding onto even more houses they can't unload? I'm nervous about the state of the country now, but at least we're not dealing with a massive wave of social unrest, homelessness and crime.
You will always be better off than people who need this kind of help, because you're smarter than they are. Be happy you're you and not them, no matter what they happen to be getting at the moment.
I blog at www.shopliftingwithpermission.com.
Yes, I'm not happy about the bailout either but hey my taxes go to pay to kill people in foreign countries and to teach children to just say no to biological imperatives they aren't going to say no to. So, money is always spent against my will.
I bought a mortgage 3 years ago. It's adjustable rate. But we also bought our house for cheap on an acre of land in an area that wasn't going to really drop that far. And it hasn't. And while we are shopping for a fixed, we are taking our time to get the best possible deal. We've been told by our own mortgage company that we don't qualify for any of their hardship programs because we have never fallen behind! LOL. C'est la vie. If not this it would be something else.
I'll be happy with the day when we spend money on arts, grants for American students to go into math and science, and other things dear to my heart. I won't hold my breath.
Margaret Garcia-Couoh
I'm livid too. I've been working my way through graduate school through this whole bubble and would have loved to live in a house for a number of reasons, and probably could have qualified for a subprime mortgage, but did the conservative thing and stayed in low-rent apartments. Other people made the aggressive choice, levereged themselves into very high risk-reward situations, and benefitted from the reward of living in lavish homes and having equity to spend as they chose. And I would accept that as part of the risk-reward nature of capitalism, except that now we've come to the "risk" part of the deal, and instead of the negative consequences affecting the people who took on the risk, it's being pushed on people like me through national debt and inflation. Meanwhile I'm still in a low-rent apartment and they're still in a lavish house.
If we're going to be a strict free market capitalist society, then we need to sit back let people sleep in the beds they've made, just like we let them profit from the winning bets. Or we could adopt the Scandinavian model of comprehensive, universal social programs that spread this kind of spending around in a consistent and roughly equitable way. But we need to choose one or the other, because these kinds of narrow, rush-job, emergency bailouts are unacceptable.
@MKB: Sorry, but if the government is taking my money away from me and giving it to other people because they made stupid decisions, then yes, I call that being punished for not making stupid mistakes.
@Guest: Those are different programs that address different problems. Who is responsible for and what causes poverty? That's a big question with no easy answer, and no easy solution. Why did a person agree to a mortgage so large that he/she couldn't afford it? Who is responsible for that person's decision? That's an easy question (or at least it should be.) You can't really lump all that into one category.
The fact that he grocery shops at all would be a dream for so many reasons, let alone being price conscious about it.
I think so many issues about food between parents are about control. But that's another story.
Lately Money Saving Mom has had several guest posts where people talk about combining coupons with the effort to eat more fresh and organic foods. The basic idea is to maximize coupons savings you CAN use and use the saved money, or the Catalina coupons, on the organic and whole foods that you want. For example, I am always going to use coupons on cereal and get it for $1 a box, and I am going to use coupons at CVS to get most of our toiletries, baby products and medicines free. That does free up some money for the organic produce I want.
But if you really find that you don't want ANYTHING shown in the coupon flyers, for goodness sake, save yourself the time! And if your husband really just brings home things you won't use, just turn over your charity budget to him and let him deliver his coupon steals right to the food bank. God knows, the food banks need all the help they can get right now.
I blog at www.shopliftingwithpermission.com.
yes, we are responsible and didn't knowlingly take on more than we could pay for (a mortgage for a zillion dollar house we when we made $20,000!)...etc, etc.
we did the right thing and we got screwed. and we have to pay for these greedy *)*)*)*)&)(.
when do we get to screw them?
"...we're afraid we won't be able to take out a home equity loan to pay for replacing the windows..."
Stop pre-paying the mortgage and put that money into a savings account. Then you can use that to replace the windows instead of borrowing to replace them.
-Erica
It's in situations such as this that I often have to remind myself of two things:
1. Half of the population is of below average intelligence.
2. The people I hang out with, are generally, well above the average.
Basically, for me and probably for eveyrone else reading this, most of the people of this nation and this world just really aren't very smart by comparison.
This is, of course, not an excuse and not really much of an explaination, but it does help to keep things in perspective and help me understand where at least some of all of this mess is coming from. Still doesn't make it any less wrong but it does make it half a bit easier to stomach.
One other thing to make sure when you buy a home is to be absolutely sure that there is no prepayment penalty. In some mortgages, they will charge you extra if you make additional payments each month.
When I bought my house, I made this clear to the real estate broker and right before signing the mortgage papers, I asked them to show me the line where it says that there is no prepayment penalty. Please make sure that is written into the mortgage contract.
I haven't had television in decades. I was a tv junkie as a kid, but after moving to NYC, where there's no reception without cable, I was weaned but fast - I refuse to pay $90+/month for the thing! That was the best decision I've ever made, bar none.
Being without television is the most natural thing in the world. It's rather sad that the only conversations some people can have with one another is about whatever crap they watched the night before. Sometimes others treat me as a sort of Luddite fruitcake - how can you not watch Dancing With the Stars (or whatever the latest tv fad is)? Answer: Easily! Happily! Thrilled to have missed that! I read constantly, write, walk my dog, bike, play the piano, etc., etc. It's called real life, and it frightens many! "Where do you get your news?" they often ask. Yet I know just as much - more, actually - about current events than the tv addicts. Funny how a newspaper or web article can be more in-depth than a 10-second tv soundbite, eh?
I'd go so far as to say tv makes you stupid, but I don't want to sound like a Luddite fruitcake...
Yes, I am more than a bit put out -- as a single homeowner who bought two homes alone -- no handout from anyone -- this seems SO unfair
HOWEVER, I think we need to look at a slightly larger picture -- do we only do the right thing when someone is looking? Is it OK to knowingly cheat just because "everyone else is doing it"?
Does your word on an agreement mean nothing?
I fear the next wave of bailouts that WILL occur when the government is unable to pay for social security, medicare and other entitlement related services. I am pretty sure that govt will start taxing our 401(k) and Roth IRA's to pay for all this mess.
Please someone tell me how to make my DVD player region free. My two year old son wants to see some Japanese DVDs brought back from Japan. Thank you.
you could quit your job and get:
section 8 vouchers (for housing)
food stamps
welfare cash payments
WIC vouchers (for food for kids)
Medicaid
free pre-school (Head Start)
free methadone clinic services
You don't take advantage of these things either. Other than bigger dollar amounts, what is the difference?
You're responsible; irresponsible people will probably always make you angry.
Who's better off in the long run?