I'm getting my employer to pay for over half of it ($15,000) when all is done. I have to stay on for a year after the reimbursement date, so if I leave now, I owe all 10k. If I leave this summer, only 5k and if I leave next Feb, then nothing (except they'll have reimbursed one more semester then). I definitely count that money as a big benefit!
Getting the boss to pay for education is a great way to keep learning and to forward your career at the same time. I've done it myself and it works wonderfully.
@JL: That is one part that I didn't mention in the article...credit counseling will indeed be a black mark on your credit and can prohibit future purchases, as it did in your case.
That is why some credit counselors may actually encourage you to tackle your debts on your own if you aren't too far down the "rabbit hole". If you think you can manage them on your own, it is best.
I ultimately see credit counseling as the last bastion before claiming bankruptcy (which is an even bigger black mark on your credit rating).
Yeah, I pretty much didn't go to school my last year of college and worked at internships and then took one class the second semester for a fraction of the cost. My school had an extension campus where professionals paid for classes on an individual class basis, so instead of paying a full semester's tuition I just paid for that one class I needed to graduate. Sometimes when you just need 2 to 3 credits to graduate you may be able to find the credits somewhere cheaper!
Actually, a few of us were successful in getting a new program passed last Fall (Section 401 PL110-84) that now offers 1) complete loan forgiveness for people who work in a huge range of public service jobs for ten years, and 2) a program under which a person's monthly repayment under that program will be capped at just 15% of their take home pay. The first half of this was effective October 1, 2007. The latter half kicks in July of next year, but there is already a program under which a person can do the same but at 20% of take home pay.
So now, if people are smart about which loans they assume, they will be able to afford to go to most any school in the country to get most any kind of degree, provided they're willing to put in 10 years after.
'Things' don't matter a hell of a lot ... I should know, I have a lot of them (all paid for with cash). But, I didn't start out to get 'things' ... I started out by trying to build a life.
It's what I write about on my blog (figuring out your life, then finding the money to make it happen):
For some people, building a life means surfing all day (you can live on, say, idyllic Byron Beach in Australia for virtually nothing) or meditating in an ashram. Money and possessions are virtually irrelevent for them.
Unfortunately for me, my dream was for a life filled with phyical, spritual, emotional, and intellectual travel ... I costed that at $250k a year (do the sums, that means $5M - $10M in the bank). Again, it's not the 'things' but the free time and the free cash required that drove me to achieve my goals.
Most people's goals are likely to fall somewhere between the two ... just make sure that 'things' aren't a part of that goal.
Here is the problem that I had with Credit Counseling. 4 years prior to my wife and I getting married I went to a Credit counseling service. They helped negoiate my terms on my credit cards down and were a big help. But, when my wife and went to get financing on a home purchase - it really dinged my credit and hurt us in trying to get into a home loan. I would advice to try not to use them, if anytime in the next 5 to 6 years that you will be trying to buy a home or get any kind of substantial loan. It shows future creditors that you aren't responsible enough to handle money. My two cents!
JL
This is a topic that is close to my heart. My parents were fair to me, in that they raised me and they paid for college (I also had a 1/4 scholarship). They gave me 500 dollars a semester in living expenses during the 4 years of college (i.e. books, housing food, etc). The rest I had to make up myself by work and not spending any money!
After college I wasn't given any additional financial assistance. There were definitely times such as during graduate school I felt twinges of low esteem at not being able to go out to dinner with other students, or them having new shoes or living in nice apartment complexes because their parents were helping out, but all those experiences are part of who I am, and I have the satisfaction I did it myself.
Ironically my parents helped out my other siblings (in particular my older brother) much more, he was the "progidal son". It caused alot of emotional strife in our family because even if you don't want to, subconsiciously it is hard not to equate money with love/attention/care. In the end I am the most financially well off of my siblings. All that help actually hindered their ability to become self-sufficient.
The rules I took from my own experience is: be fair with the way you treat all your children (don't disproportionately help one child much more than the rest) encourage my children to get scholarships/grants for college, and try my darndest to make up the difference (I've seen how hard it is for young people to make it starting out with huge college loans and it breaks my heart). After graduation make it clear I am not a bank but am there emotionally for them.
We'll see how it goes in 20 years!
Thinking about retiring abroad? then you must consider Panama, why? I bet you have at least 100 questions ask me whatever you want? I came to Panama 10 years ago to visit my mothers side of the family , i knew then that this country was a gem, now and days any one who visits this paradise see it as a diamond. Ask me what ever you would like about panama from the beaches to the mountains and back to a modern metropolis I know this country inside out , my city Panama I would love to tell you about it and who know´s perhaps one day you might call it home.
David V
Few Facts about Panama
Modern Maturity magazine (the AARP magazine with the largest circulation of any consumer magazine in the world – upward of 20 million subscribers) recently rated Boquete as the fourth-best retirement destination in the world.
International Living's Global Retirement Index 2005 rated Panama as the #1 best place in the world to retire.
Fortune magazine's 2005 Retirement Guide chose Boquete as one of the five best places in the world to retire.
Political Risk Services named Panama one of the top three countries in the hemisphere for best-risk investments.
According to The Fraser Institute in Canada, Panama is at the top of the list of the world's freest economies, ranked eighth with Australia, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg.
Thanks for the post, it is very interesting to me because my parents have help me financially, and I try to make sense of my feelings about it. My parents always lived frugally and taught my sisters and I about the technical-number-crunching aspects of personal finance, but also about the cultural ideas of mindless consumerism, entrepreneurship, etc.
My parents agreed to pay for my college education, but on one condition. They would pay my tuition only after I graduated with a degree in hand. So, I took out student loans in my name, but on the day after graduation they paid off my student loans w/ no interest. This way, I couldn't screw around campus for 3 years on their dime and amount to nothing. I don't agree that you have to pay for school yourself to get good grades or actually appreciate the experience. For example, I graduated early as a double major even though my parents would have paid for more.
*Luckily my parents did approve of my majors, but if I wanted to major in Art or Sociology per se - they would NOT have paid for anything.
My parents recently gave me money for a down-payment on a condo. They wanted to help me get ahead and I wanted a safe/stable long term place to live instead of bouncing around and signing new leases every year. They wanted me to buy a place more than I wanted to because I knew of the day to day responsibilities of home-ownership. (They are well versed in investment properties. In college, they bought a 3 bedroom house and I was the landlord. It was a huge hassle.) Anyways, because I had lived in the same city for 2 years and found a promising career-related job and was approved for a mortgage, we moved forward. We looked at many properties, waited for the market to cool, and finally closed on a condo. I got a first hand review of the importance of credit, mortgage terms, and how to calculate property taxes, insurance, condo fees. I make the monthly payments now and everything seems to be working out. When/If I want to sell, they will get 40% of the final selling price because their down-payment was 40% of the buying price.
I read (or heard) that when you buy seedlings, it is actually better to by smaller plants that have yet to start sprouting. Apparently, the transplantation process can be shocking for more advanced plants. Considering that you often pay more for the more advanced seedlings, you can save yourself time & money buying a smaller seedling, that will grow as fast or faster than the more advanced one...hope that makes sense.
Last summer (before I heard this) I bought a pepper plant that was already sprouting and all I got was the one pepper that had already started to appear...
This sucks. I just found out that by "child", they mean any dependant. This includes college students not able to recieve a refund from the Economic Stimulus Plan.
I live in my own apartment, pay my own rent and utlities... Yet I don't qualify as an independant because I am under the age of 25 and am in college.
Not only that, I will have to suffer the hike in taxes next year to pay for this crap.
Must be nice adults. I guess I am back to my $8 an hour job to take-from-the-poor and give-to-the-rich.
I'm not advocating that people move in with their in-laws. That's obviously a very personal decision; only the people directly involved could possibly know if it was the right choice or not.
I'm just saying that it was a perfectly ordinary thing for people to do through most of human history. The fact that many people nowadays can graduate from college and then set up housekeeping on their own as a single person is just one way in which our standard of living is vastly higher now than it was before. Until very recently, only wealthy people could do that. Now we're almost all wealthy, by historical standards.
When my parents married in 1946 (at ages 29 and 21), they lived on the farm with my father's parents. They lived there until they were able to buy the farm from my grandparents, at which time my grandparents moved into a different house. This worked well for several reasons, including but not only: My mom (mother of 12 kids) had help with all the babies; my grandparents had continued help from their only son; my parents learned to manage a farm before they had to do it on their own.
Oh, yes, do take great care what you say to folks in regard to financing the kids' college education, and never mention that you worked your way through and so can they if they want it bad enough. (I do think Clark Howard at least agrees with me on this one).
I'm very comfortable with my life choices and finances but was sad to find out that my income level might be considered close to poverty, what a shock, yikes. But carrying almost no debt is just wonderful, and I feel sorry for those who don't understand that. At my age, I don't envy people their "nicer" things. And what a shame neighborhoods are allowed to deteriorate. Too bad not enough smart younger people aren't starting off there (buy a mean dog, ha-ha). The opportunities are certainly still out there in this country if you're not afraid to venture outside the box.
Hi there... I started in a small way too... just a couple of pots on my patio (we only have a tiny courtyard garden) ... things went well for a year or two... but it is never enough... this Friday I pick up the key to me new allotment
Hopefully this will satisfy for a few years, but I'm sure in the end we'll have to move and get some more land!
good luck with it all - my biggest success last couple of years was a chilli plant - they freeze well and we are still using them now, hopefully we'll eat the old before the new ones arrive! tomatoes and peppers grew well too - as long as they have plenty of sun and water they seem to thrive... my biggest downfall the first year was forgetting water them - shameful!
I've always wanted to try making a beer slushie (using a slushie maker or ice cream maker). I bet it would be FANTASTIC on those 102 degree summers in the CA valley...
Excellent Post. To answer a question by one of the commenters.
How to get health insurance on minimum wage ? Although I believe this is just a sarcastic post, I will give him a serious answer based on actual facts.
Get a job at walmart. Yes, the evil empire. First, they pay better than minimum wage. A friend has worked there for 4 years, and makes 13 per hour. This store is always short handed and looking for employees. If you can pass the drug screen you have a job. People work there that are in their 80s, others are disabled and some are mentally handicapped.
This year he signed up for the big deductible health insurance and the health saving account plan. His insurance premium for a single is 10 per paycheck, 20 a month. For a family is is about 30 per check. These premiums are the same for everyone regardless of age or preexisting conditions. The company at the first of the year contributes 600 to his health savings account, and then matches dollar for dollar for another 600 per year. If he does not spend those contributions for the first year, he ends up with 1800 dollars in an interest bearing account. The high deductible is 2000 per year.
he also receives company contributions to a 401k and profit sharing each year even if he does not contribute a penny of his own.
After taxes and voluntary 401k contributions and HSA contributions he clears about 1450 per month. Total housing, (shared rent) food, utilities, cable, phone, gas, etc. is about 750 per month. So he has about 700 dollars free cash flow per month to do has he wishes, spend or save. He has an older car paid for in excellent condition that will last for many more years. His commute to work is less than 4 miles round trip.
This is an actual example of how you can in fact get along and even prosper on a low paying job today in this country.
I do believe that the legal age of all United American states is twenty-one. Unless I am mistaken, my home state of Louisiana was the last to up the ante to 21 from 18, on threat of national funding for roads being pulled.
Another great use for beer is simply health benefits from consuming alcohol. I believe that the standard accepted intake amount is one beer/glass of wine for women a day, and two for men, with a beneficial effect on the general overall health.
Hmmm, very interesting! I had no idea student loans could potentially be addressed by credit counselors, I thought they were just sorta off-limits.
Reducing my interest rate to something even close to what others are paying would reduce payoff time in half or more because my payments now are almost all interest.
Although I can't say for sure, it is my impression that even student loans can be handled if you are a candidate for credit counseling. They negotiate a lower rate of interest and waive any late fees and penalties you may be facing. In return, you would pay the counseling firm directly, and they would repay your debts.
In doing your research, be sure to ask potential counselors if they can help you with student debts.
I'm getting my employer to pay for over half of it ($15,000) when all is done. I have to stay on for a year after the reimbursement date, so if I leave now, I owe all 10k. If I leave this summer, only 5k and if I leave next Feb, then nothing (except they'll have reimbursed one more semester then). I definitely count that money as a big benefit!
Getting the boss to pay for education is a great way to keep learning and to forward your career at the same time. I've done it myself and it works wonderfully.
Great article, Linsey!
@JL: That is one part that I didn't mention in the article...credit counseling will indeed be a black mark on your credit and can prohibit future purchases, as it did in your case.
That is why some credit counselors may actually encourage you to tackle your debts on your own if you aren't too far down the "rabbit hole". If you think you can manage them on your own, it is best.
I ultimately see credit counseling as the last bastion before claiming bankruptcy (which is an even bigger black mark on your credit rating).
Yeah, I pretty much didn't go to school my last year of college and worked at internships and then took one class the second semester for a fraction of the cost. My school had an extension campus where professionals paid for classes on an individual class basis, so instead of paying a full semester's tuition I just paid for that one class I needed to graduate. Sometimes when you just need 2 to 3 credits to graduate you may be able to find the credits somewhere cheaper!
I will be checking out that program right away... Thanks!
Actually, a few of us were successful in getting a new program passed last Fall (Section 401 PL110-84) that now offers 1) complete loan forgiveness for people who work in a huge range of public service jobs for ten years, and 2) a program under which a person's monthly repayment under that program will be capped at just 15% of their take home pay. The first half of this was effective October 1, 2007. The latter half kicks in July of next year, but there is already a program under which a person can do the same but at 20% of take home pay.
So now, if people are smart about which loans they assume, they will be able to afford to go to most any school in the country to get most any kind of degree, provided they're willing to put in 10 years after.
Groundbreaking stuff.
Hello
'Things' don't matter a hell of a lot ... I should know, I have a lot of them (all paid for with cash). But, I didn't start out to get 'things' ... I started out by trying to build a life.
It's what I write about on my blog (figuring out your life, then finding the money to make it happen):
For some people, building a life means surfing all day (you can live on, say, idyllic Byron Beach in Australia for virtually nothing) or meditating in an ashram. Money and possessions are virtually irrelevent for them.
Unfortunately for me, my dream was for a life filled with phyical, spritual, emotional, and intellectual travel ... I costed that at $250k a year (do the sums, that means $5M - $10M in the bank). Again, it's not the 'things' but the free time and the free cash required that drove me to achieve my goals.
Most people's goals are likely to fall somewhere between the two ... just make sure that 'things' aren't a part of that goal.
Here is the problem that I had with Credit Counseling. 4 years prior to my wife and I getting married I went to a Credit counseling service. They helped negoiate my terms on my credit cards down and were a big help. But, when my wife and went to get financing on a home purchase - it really dinged my credit and hurt us in trying to get into a home loan. I would advice to try not to use them, if anytime in the next 5 to 6 years that you will be trying to buy a home or get any kind of substantial loan. It shows future creditors that you aren't responsible enough to handle money. My two cents!
JL
This is a topic that is close to my heart. My parents were fair to me, in that they raised me and they paid for college (I also had a 1/4 scholarship). They gave me 500 dollars a semester in living expenses during the 4 years of college (i.e. books, housing food, etc). The rest I had to make up myself by work and not spending any money!
After college I wasn't given any additional financial assistance. There were definitely times such as during graduate school I felt twinges of low esteem at not being able to go out to dinner with other students, or them having new shoes or living in nice apartment complexes because their parents were helping out, but all those experiences are part of who I am, and I have the satisfaction I did it myself.
Ironically my parents helped out my other siblings (in particular my older brother) much more, he was the "progidal son". It caused alot of emotional strife in our family because even if you don't want to, subconsiciously it is hard not to equate money with love/attention/care. In the end I am the most financially well off of my siblings. All that help actually hindered their ability to become self-sufficient.
The rules I took from my own experience is: be fair with the way you treat all your children (don't disproportionately help one child much more than the rest) encourage my children to get scholarships/grants for college, and try my darndest to make up the difference (I've seen how hard it is for young people to make it starting out with huge college loans and it breaks my heart). After graduation make it clear I am not a bank but am there emotionally for them.
We'll see how it goes in 20 years!
Thinking about retiring abroad? then you must consider Panama, why? I bet you have at least 100 questions ask me whatever you want? I came to Panama 10 years ago to visit my mothers side of the family , i knew then that this country was a gem, now and days any one who visits this paradise see it as a diamond. Ask me what ever you would like about panama from the beaches to the mountains and back to a modern metropolis I know this country inside out , my city Panama I would love to tell you about it and who know´s perhaps one day you might call it home.
David V
Few Facts about Panama
Modern Maturity magazine (the AARP magazine with the largest circulation of any consumer magazine in the world – upward of 20 million subscribers) recently rated Boquete as the fourth-best retirement destination in the world.
International Living's Global Retirement Index 2005 rated Panama as the #1 best place in the world to retire.
Fortune magazine's 2005 Retirement Guide chose Boquete as one of the five best places in the world to retire.
Political Risk Services named Panama one of the top three countries in the hemisphere for best-risk investments.
According to The Fraser Institute in Canada, Panama is at the top of the list of the world's freest economies, ranked eighth with Australia, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg.
Thanks for the post, it is very interesting to me because my parents have help me financially, and I try to make sense of my feelings about it. My parents always lived frugally and taught my sisters and I about the technical-number-crunching aspects of personal finance, but also about the cultural ideas of mindless consumerism, entrepreneurship, etc.
My parents agreed to pay for my college education, but on one condition. They would pay my tuition only after I graduated with a degree in hand. So, I took out student loans in my name, but on the day after graduation they paid off my student loans w/ no interest. This way, I couldn't screw around campus for 3 years on their dime and amount to nothing. I don't agree that you have to pay for school yourself to get good grades or actually appreciate the experience. For example, I graduated early as a double major even though my parents would have paid for more.
*Luckily my parents did approve of my majors, but if I wanted to major in Art or Sociology per se - they would NOT have paid for anything.
My parents recently gave me money for a down-payment on a condo. They wanted to help me get ahead and I wanted a safe/stable long term place to live instead of bouncing around and signing new leases every year. They wanted me to buy a place more than I wanted to because I knew of the day to day responsibilities of home-ownership. (They are well versed in investment properties. In college, they bought a 3 bedroom house and I was the landlord. It was a huge hassle.) Anyways, because I had lived in the same city for 2 years and found a promising career-related job and was approved for a mortgage, we moved forward. We looked at many properties, waited for the market to cool, and finally closed on a condo. I got a first hand review of the importance of credit, mortgage terms, and how to calculate property taxes, insurance, condo fees. I make the monthly payments now and everything seems to be working out. When/If I want to sell, they will get 40% of the final selling price because their down-payment was 40% of the buying price.
I read (or heard) that when you buy seedlings, it is actually better to by smaller plants that have yet to start sprouting. Apparently, the transplantation process can be shocking for more advanced plants. Considering that you often pay more for the more advanced seedlings, you can save yourself time & money buying a smaller seedling, that will grow as fast or faster than the more advanced one...hope that makes sense.
Last summer (before I heard this) I bought a pepper plant that was already sprouting and all I got was the one pepper that had already started to appear...
This sucks. I just found out that by "child", they mean any dependant. This includes college students not able to recieve a refund from the Economic Stimulus Plan.
I live in my own apartment, pay my own rent and utlities... Yet I don't qualify as an independant because I am under the age of 25 and am in college.
Not only that, I will have to suffer the hike in taxes next year to pay for this crap.
Must be nice adults. I guess I am back to my $8 an hour job to take-from-the-poor and give-to-the-rich.
I'm not advocating that people move in with their in-laws. That's obviously a very personal decision; only the people directly involved could possibly know if it was the right choice or not.
I'm just saying that it was a perfectly ordinary thing for people to do through most of human history. The fact that many people nowadays can graduate from college and then set up housekeeping on their own as a single person is just one way in which our standard of living is vastly higher now than it was before. Until very recently, only wealthy people could do that. Now we're almost all wealthy, by historical standards.
When my parents married in 1946 (at ages 29 and 21), they lived on the farm with my father's parents. They lived there until they were able to buy the farm from my grandparents, at which time my grandparents moved into a different house. This worked well for several reasons, including but not only: My mom (mother of 12 kids) had help with all the babies; my grandparents had continued help from their only son; my parents learned to manage a farm before they had to do it on their own.
Oh, yes, do take great care what you say to folks in regard to financing the kids' college education, and never mention that you worked your way through and so can they if they want it bad enough. (I do think Clark Howard at least agrees with me on this one).
I'm very comfortable with my life choices and finances but was sad to find out that my income level might be considered close to poverty, what a shock, yikes. But carrying almost no debt is just wonderful, and I feel sorry for those who don't understand that. At my age, I don't envy people their "nicer" things. And what a shame neighborhoods are allowed to deteriorate. Too bad not enough smart younger people aren't starting off there (buy a mean dog, ha-ha). The opportunities are certainly still out there in this country if you're not afraid to venture outside the box.
Hi there... I started in a small way too... just a couple of pots on my patio (we only have a tiny courtyard garden) ... things went well for a year or two... but it is never enough... this Friday I pick up the key to me new allotment
Hopefully this will satisfy for a few years, but I'm sure in the end we'll have to move and get some more land!
good luck with it all - my biggest success last couple of years was a chilli plant - they freeze well and we are still using them now, hopefully we'll eat the old before the new ones arrive! tomatoes and peppers grew well too - as long as they have plenty of sun and water they seem to thrive... my biggest downfall the first year was forgetting water them - shameful!
This is a great siteand a wonderful inspirations.Keep it up
I can say that the importance of ebooks can not be over emphasised.I realy enjoy the ebooks.And the inspirations is great.
I've always wanted to try making a beer slushie (using a slushie maker or ice cream maker). I bet it would be FANTASTIC on those 102 degree summers in the CA valley...
Excellent Post. To answer a question by one of the commenters.
How to get health insurance on minimum wage ? Although I believe this is just a sarcastic post, I will give him a serious answer based on actual facts.
Get a job at walmart. Yes, the evil empire. First, they pay better than minimum wage. A friend has worked there for 4 years, and makes 13 per hour. This store is always short handed and looking for employees. If you can pass the drug screen you have a job. People work there that are in their 80s, others are disabled and some are mentally handicapped.
This year he signed up for the big deductible health insurance and the health saving account plan. His insurance premium for a single is 10 per paycheck, 20 a month. For a family is is about 30 per check. These premiums are the same for everyone regardless of age or preexisting conditions. The company at the first of the year contributes 600 to his health savings account, and then matches dollar for dollar for another 600 per year. If he does not spend those contributions for the first year, he ends up with 1800 dollars in an interest bearing account. The high deductible is 2000 per year.
he also receives company contributions to a 401k and profit sharing each year even if he does not contribute a penny of his own.
After taxes and voluntary 401k contributions and HSA contributions he clears about 1450 per month. Total housing, (shared rent) food, utilities, cable, phone, gas, etc. is about 750 per month. So he has about 700 dollars free cash flow per month to do has he wishes, spend or save. He has an older car paid for in excellent condition that will last for many more years. His commute to work is less than 4 miles round trip.
This is an actual example of how you can in fact get along and even prosper on a low paying job today in this country.
I do believe that the legal age of all United American states is twenty-one. Unless I am mistaken, my home state of Louisiana was the last to up the ante to 21 from 18, on threat of national funding for roads being pulled.
Another great use for beer is simply health benefits from consuming alcohol. I believe that the standard accepted intake amount is one beer/glass of wine for women a day, and two for men, with a beneficial effect on the general overall health.
Hmmm, very interesting! I had no idea student loans could potentially be addressed by credit counselors, I thought they were just sorta off-limits.
Reducing my interest rate to something even close to what others are paying would reduce payoff time in half or more because my payments now are almost all interest.
Although I can't say for sure, it is my impression that even student loans can be handled if you are a candidate for credit counseling. They negotiate a lower rate of interest and waive any late fees and penalties you may be facing. In return, you would pay the counseling firm directly, and they would repay your debts.
In doing your research, be sure to ask potential counselors if they can help you with student debts.