WHy is it that you can't even find a descent pair of chucks to take a pIks of you should have your favourties hooked up for us bro>> LYNK us to your favs you know the good looking ones
I've never paid a bill late in my life, and I have no debt, but for the last six months I have been getting calls from bill collectors every single night. when I moved, I inherited the phone number of someone who owed a lot of people money. The worst thing about the bill collectors is that they assume you are lying. I tell them repeatedly, there is no one here by that name and they need to remove me from the list. They are nasty, condescending, and sneaky. I know they are trying to do a job, but there is no excuse for being rude.
My favorites are the ones who call with an automated dialer, and then a computer asks you to hold for an agent. I wait patiently and then explain the situation. Usually it takes a minute or two to convince the. I hope they get the message soon, or I may have to request a new phone number. Maybe I can try some of your tips.
Look's like a fascinating movie, and I'll poke around on your site some more. Thanks for the link
@Miranda:
You're right, that efforts to force permanent growth are part of the problem. My own vision is to move beyond cycles of growth and recession. Rather, we can embed the growing and shrinking of sectors within a stable economy.
There will always be parts of the economy that need to shrink--due to changes in tastes, changes in technology, overexpansion caused by errors of judgement, and simple bad luck. But that doesn't mean that the whole economy needs to shrink. If we didn't try so hard to prevent any shrinkage, there'd be more sectors ready to grow, able to take up the slack.
Expansion is the word often used to describe growth. In a healthy economic cycle, there are periods of slow down as well as growth. It actually makes the economy more unstable to try and perpetuate growth without a natural fallback.
Thanks for this thoughtful post. It and the comments raise some important issues. One of the reasons we focus so much on job creation is that technology has been making us more efficient but we keep on working as many hours or more than we used to. So our solution has been to try to increase consumption, to put all these extra people to work (people no longer needed to provide our basic necessities and people created through unabated population growth).
Contrary to one comment, innovation and technology cannot enable perpetual economic growth. We have a finite supply of natural capital (resources) and we are in the process of liquidating them right now, because of our obsession with economic growth and our ignorance of population growth. Economic growth unfortunately consumes these resources.
I also think that economic growth is an inefficient means of bringing people out of poverty. Look at how much poverty remains in the world and how many uber-rich we have. If we keep growing until everyone is out of poverty, we'll have consumed several Earths in the process. The growth profiteers do love to trot out the notion of ending poverty as a defense of their excess, but I don't think we should buy it. They spend very little of their time and money trying to eradicate poverty (in fact, they spend most of their time exploiting the impoverished, who interest them only as a source of cheap natural resources and as a potential market to buy their products).
Your notion of stability is on the money. There are economists (a few) and even organizations promoting a steady state economy. Rather than list them here, I'll suggest you visit my documentary website and look in the economic growth section for some excellent books and organizations.
I applaud the excellent use of logic here! We need more of that.
Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity www.growthbusters.com
Come on guys. This is a site that is supposed to speak about frugality, and wise financial decisions. The last thing we should be doing is rationalizing or defending the abhorrent practice of running up debts on someone else's dime.
Sure, debt collectors can be nasty, but you owe the money. The ratio of fallacious to legitimate debts are painfully minute, and shouldn't be used to determine your stance on debt collection as a whole. As the saying goes, one swallow does not a summer make.
You are doing your readers a disservice by acting like people who have debts being collected on are a wronged group of people. What about the company that is out money because the debtor is too irresponsible to pay their debts, or knowingly racked up the debt even though they couldn't pay for it.
Let's stick to the topic at hand, and assist people in being MORE responsible, rather than less responsible.
Regardless of whether the debt collector called you a name, or harassed you on the phone...your refusal to pay your debts amounts to one single thing...theft. We have no problem labeling thieves with pejoratives, why not egregious debtors? It is the same thing.
One thing that no one mentioned: just because you tell them to not call you, that doesn't stay stuck on your record forever. Every 6 months or so, the debt is eligible to be resold to a new collection company, and even if they don't sell it, they get to wipe the do-not-call list.
I know this because an ex of mine had an accident that got him hospitalized. I put my name on the paperwork as an emergency contact - and when he didn't pay the bill, they came after me even though I wasn't responsible in any way for the bill. The first few times were really bad - they said I'd signed something that made me responsible for the bill, that I had to get them a credit card number that day or they'd go after my credit report, and worse. Then the next time I didn't get upset, just said that that was fine - if they paperwork that I'd signed that made me responsible, they could mail it to me in a certified letter, and I'd be glad to pay them, otherwise, they should stop calling me.
I didn't hear from them again, until 6 months later. I repeated myself, and they went away. They still call, every 6 months on the dot (without ever producing said paperwork), and I tell them to go away, sigh, and tell myself it's just a reminder of one reason why I left him to begin with.
I too think we'll be seeing more and more home sharing in the US. I think the reason some folks didn't get on the bandwagon and do this before losing their homes is that the "bust" happened fairly quickly and in some cases, wouldn't have helped much-some people got ridiculously over their heads in housing costs.
I just realized my post may not be wholly correct. When I said most consumer attorneys will not cost the client anything, I meant there are few if any UPFRONT costs.
Usually the attorneys fees for the individual consumer's attorney are paid by the debt collector when the lawsuit is either settled or won. In that case, the only costs to the client are the costs of the litigation -- the filing fee, maybe some postage charges, etc. These are taken out of the settlement money or award.
Sometimes the consumer's attorney is paid on a contingency fee arrangement. This would be where the attorney gets a percentage of the settlement money or award.
Sorry to be unclear in my other post -- I was trying to keep things brief, but I figure accurate is more important!
Great to see an article on debt collector harassment here! I am an attorney who sues out-of-control collectors and I have just a few corrections/additions to make.
First, if you tell a collector to stop contacting you, they are required to do so. However, this will sometimes make the creditor file a lawsuit against you sooner then they otherwise would.
Most consumer attorneys cost the client (you, the harassed person) nothing. Sometimes if a lawsuit is filed, a client may pay the filing fee up front. In California where I practice, that is between $180 and $300 dollars.
The best place to find a consumer attorney to give you advice on your situation is www.naca.net
Finally, do not automatically reject the solution of bankruptcy to get a fresh start and back on your feet. It is not appropriate for all situations, but at the right time it can be a huge help.
I think that innovation and technology actually takes away jobs. For example, my mom is an accountant and in the past it took 50 accountants to manage a couple billion dollars, but now with better software it takes about 5. Sure, perhaps there will be more high tech jobs, but not everyone has the money to get the training for these jobs. So I don't think infinite economic growth is possible unless there is adequate training for workers that is easy to come by.
I love your comments. I make 80k, and that's not including my husband's salary of 30k .. and we are struggling, in a larger city with high rent. But ... I do have excesses, and I'm currently in the process of listing what I've got to live without, so I'll have 3 to 4 months of a paycheck in immediate Savings Account, and not just in the 401k. Thanks for your honesty. I have to get back to the basics.
Actually, economists call the period when the economy is growing the growth period or expansionary period. It's also sometimes referred to as the recovery period immediately after a recessionary period by business cycle theorists.
And there's no economic reason why growth can't continue for the next thousand years, as long as innovation continues. A 200+ year trend isn't something I'd bet against.
This is something that I have been thinking about for a while now. I was even thinking about going to an economics professor at my university to see how it would actually be possible to have perpetual growth. I think you've brought up excellent questions, but I don't exactly see how your solutions will help in the matter.
If you owe it, pay it. As a former debt collector I got to see a side of people that is terrible. Debtor lie cheat and are stealing. They write bad check and then change their phone number to hide from their obligations. Taking something and not paying for it is stealing. Everyone make bill collectors out to be the bad guys. They are keeping the economy going. If you have a medical bill that is too big to pay make an arrangement with the Dr. before it goes to collections. I am sure they will take $20/month until you get back on your feet. Debt collectors are the good guys and if they contact you and you do not owe it then they will ask for proof and try to resolve the matter with the client. The burder of proof is on you. Do not hide because they will find you. They can call a neighbor to give you a message or a relative if they have not located you. If you take care of you matters before it gets this far then you will be fine. Stop being a scum bag and deal with your bills!
If you know you owe it, don't hang up. It'll just look like you've refused to make payment, etc, and it won't stop them from escalating the tactics. Stay calm and polite, ask for their name and a callback number, and say that you're at work right and so you can't talk, and ask not to call again at that time/number. If they keep with the rudeness, then use the "mommy voice" (I'm not getting into an argument over the phone, etc.) and then politely end the call.
They did this a couple months ago as well (not just "last year"). The store in town here had juuust opened when they did it last... but alas, the company that makes the machines for them is behind, and this store doesn't have one yet. So, I'm missing out again! But thanks for the info, maybe next time for me...
I have Canon for most of my b/w printing needs, but I recently purchased a HP scanner/printer/copier, and the ONLY way I can afford the color cartridges is through the Walgreen's deals.
WHy is it that you can't even find a descent pair of chucks to take a pIks of you should have your favourties hooked up for us bro>> LYNK us to your favs you know the good looking ones
I've never paid a bill late in my life, and I have no debt, but for the last six months I have been getting calls from bill collectors every single night. when I moved, I inherited the phone number of someone who owed a lot of people money. The worst thing about the bill collectors is that they assume you are lying. I tell them repeatedly, there is no one here by that name and they need to remove me from the list. They are nasty, condescending, and sneaky. I know they are trying to do a job, but there is no excuse for being rude.
My favorites are the ones who call with an automated dialer, and then a computer asks you to hold for an agent. I wait patiently and then explain the situation. Usually it takes a minute or two to convince the. I hope they get the message soon, or I may have to request a new phone number. Maybe I can try some of your tips.
@Dave:
Look's like a fascinating movie, and I'll poke around on your site some more. Thanks for the link
@Miranda:
You're right, that efforts to force permanent growth are part of the problem. My own vision is to move beyond cycles of growth and recession. Rather, we can embed the growing and shrinking of sectors within a stable economy.
There will always be parts of the economy that need to shrink--due to changes in tastes, changes in technology, overexpansion caused by errors of judgement, and simple bad luck. But that doesn't mean that the whole economy needs to shrink. If we didn't try so hard to prevent any shrinkage, there'd be more sectors ready to grow, able to take up the slack.
Expansion is the word often used to describe growth. In a healthy economic cycle, there are periods of slow down as well as growth. It actually makes the economy more unstable to try and perpetuate growth without a natural fallback.
Thanks for this thoughtful post. It and the comments raise some important issues. One of the reasons we focus so much on job creation is that technology has been making us more efficient but we keep on working as many hours or more than we used to. So our solution has been to try to increase consumption, to put all these extra people to work (people no longer needed to provide our basic necessities and people created through unabated population growth).
Contrary to one comment, innovation and technology cannot enable perpetual economic growth. We have a finite supply of natural capital (resources) and we are in the process of liquidating them right now, because of our obsession with economic growth and our ignorance of population growth. Economic growth unfortunately consumes these resources.
I also think that economic growth is an inefficient means of bringing people out of poverty. Look at how much poverty remains in the world and how many uber-rich we have. If we keep growing until everyone is out of poverty, we'll have consumed several Earths in the process. The growth profiteers do love to trot out the notion of ending poverty as a defense of their excess, but I don't think we should buy it. They spend very little of their time and money trying to eradicate poverty (in fact, they spend most of their time exploiting the impoverished, who interest them only as a source of cheap natural resources and as a potential market to buy their products).
Your notion of stability is on the money. There are economists (a few) and even organizations promoting a steady state economy. Rather than list them here, I'll suggest you visit my documentary website and look in the economic growth section for some excellent books and organizations.
I applaud the excellent use of logic here! We need more of that.
Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com
Come on guys. This is a site that is supposed to speak about frugality, and wise financial decisions. The last thing we should be doing is rationalizing or defending the abhorrent practice of running up debts on someone else's dime.
Sure, debt collectors can be nasty, but you owe the money. The ratio of fallacious to legitimate debts are painfully minute, and shouldn't be used to determine your stance on debt collection as a whole. As the saying goes, one swallow does not a summer make.
You are doing your readers a disservice by acting like people who have debts being collected on are a wronged group of people. What about the company that is out money because the debtor is too irresponsible to pay their debts, or knowingly racked up the debt even though they couldn't pay for it.
Let's stick to the topic at hand, and assist people in being MORE responsible, rather than less responsible.
Regardless of whether the debt collector called you a name, or harassed you on the phone...your refusal to pay your debts amounts to one single thing...theft. We have no problem labeling thieves with pejoratives, why not egregious debtors? It is the same thing.
One thing that no one mentioned: just because you tell them to not call you, that doesn't stay stuck on your record forever. Every 6 months or so, the debt is eligible to be resold to a new collection company, and even if they don't sell it, they get to wipe the do-not-call list.
I know this because an ex of mine had an accident that got him hospitalized. I put my name on the paperwork as an emergency contact - and when he didn't pay the bill, they came after me even though I wasn't responsible in any way for the bill. The first few times were really bad - they said I'd signed something that made me responsible for the bill, that I had to get them a credit card number that day or they'd go after my credit report, and worse. Then the next time I didn't get upset, just said that that was fine - if they paperwork that I'd signed that made me responsible, they could mail it to me in a certified letter, and I'd be glad to pay them, otherwise, they should stop calling me.
I didn't hear from them again, until 6 months later. I repeated myself, and they went away. They still call, every 6 months on the dot (without ever producing said paperwork), and I tell them to go away, sigh, and tell myself it's just a reminder of one reason why I left him to begin with.
@RitaB:
I agree completely. In fact, I've written a post on just that topic:
It's not an investment program all by itself, but it's a great piece of one, especially for a small investor.
Canned food won't loose it's value-It might be a good time to stock one's pantry with inexpensive canned food.
I too think we'll be seeing more and more home sharing in the US. I think the reason some folks didn't get on the bandwagon and do this before losing their homes is that the "bust" happened fairly quickly and in some cases, wouldn't have helped much-some people got ridiculously over their heads in housing costs.
I also received an e-mail about baby-cut carrots being soaked in chlorine and am wondering whether or not this is true.
I just realized my post may not be wholly correct. When I said most consumer attorneys will not cost the client anything, I meant there are few if any UPFRONT costs.
Usually the attorneys fees for the individual consumer's attorney are paid by the debt collector when the lawsuit is either settled or won. In that case, the only costs to the client are the costs of the litigation -- the filing fee, maybe some postage charges, etc. These are taken out of the settlement money or award.
Sometimes the consumer's attorney is paid on a contingency fee arrangement. This would be where the attorney gets a percentage of the settlement money or award.
Sorry to be unclear in my other post -- I was trying to keep things brief, but I figure accurate is more important!
-- Amy Kleinpeter
Great to see an article on debt collector harassment here! I am an attorney who sues out-of-control collectors and I have just a few corrections/additions to make.
First, if you tell a collector to stop contacting you, they are required to do so. However, this will sometimes make the creditor file a lawsuit against you sooner then they otherwise would.
Most consumer attorneys cost the client (you, the harassed person) nothing. Sometimes if a lawsuit is filed, a client may pay the filing fee up front. In California where I practice, that is between $180 and $300 dollars.
The best place to find a consumer attorney to give you advice on your situation is www.naca.net
Finally, do not automatically reject the solution of bankruptcy to get a fresh start and back on your feet. It is not appropriate for all situations, but at the right time it can be a huge help.
I think that innovation and technology actually takes away jobs. For example, my mom is an accountant and in the past it took 50 accountants to manage a couple billion dollars, but now with better software it takes about 5. Sure, perhaps there will be more high tech jobs, but not everyone has the money to get the training for these jobs. So I don't think infinite economic growth is possible unless there is adequate training for workers that is easy to come by.
I love your comments. I make 80k, and that's not including my husband's salary of 30k .. and we are struggling, in a larger city with high rent. But ... I do have excesses, and I'm currently in the process of listing what I've got to live without, so I'll have 3 to 4 months of a paycheck in immediate Savings Account, and not just in the 401k. Thanks for your honesty. I have to get back to the basics.
Actually, economists call the period when the economy is growing the growth period or expansionary period. It's also sometimes referred to as the recovery period immediately after a recessionary period by business cycle theorists.
And there's no economic reason why growth can't continue for the next thousand years, as long as innovation continues. A 200+ year trend isn't something I'd bet against.
This is something that I have been thinking about for a while now. I was even thinking about going to an economics professor at my university to see how it would actually be possible to have perpetual growth. I think you've brought up excellent questions, but I don't exactly see how your solutions will help in the matter.
If you owe it, pay it. As a former debt collector I got to see a side of people that is terrible. Debtor lie cheat and are stealing. They write bad check and then change their phone number to hide from their obligations. Taking something and not paying for it is stealing. Everyone make bill collectors out to be the bad guys. They are keeping the economy going. If you have a medical bill that is too big to pay make an arrangement with the Dr. before it goes to collections. I am sure they will take $20/month until you get back on your feet. Debt collectors are the good guys and if they contact you and you do not owe it then they will ask for proof and try to resolve the matter with the client. The burder of proof is on you. Do not hide because they will find you. They can call a neighbor to give you a message or a relative if they have not located you. If you take care of you matters before it gets this far then you will be fine. Stop being a scum bag and deal with your bills!
If you know you owe it, don't hang up. It'll just look like you've refused to make payment, etc, and it won't stop them from escalating the tactics. Stay calm and polite, ask for their name and a callback number, and say that you're at work right and so you can't talk, and ask not to call again at that time/number. If they keep with the rudeness, then use the "mommy voice" (I'm not getting into an argument over the phone, etc.) and then politely end the call.
I just don't answer the phone. I made a contact on my phone called 'ignore' and added all the assholes who keep calling me to it.
They did this a couple months ago as well (not just "last year"). The store in town here had juuust opened when they did it last... but alas, the company that makes the machines for them is behind, and this store doesn't have one yet. So, I'm missing out again! But thanks for the info, maybe next time for me...
so if someone were to use something temperature controlled to heat it would that help make the alcohol content higher?
Thanks for the tip. I would have totally missed it. Last time I told other people but forgot to go myself.
I have Canon for most of my b/w printing needs, but I recently purchased a HP scanner/printer/copier, and the ONLY way I can afford the color cartridges is through the Walgreen's deals.
I have Epson and Canon printers. Thanks for the tip though!