One thing that really struck me when I was pregnant was the rampant consumerism. This idea that you *need* all this stuff. You *need* a diaper genie. You *need* all sorts of fancy toys. You *need* this, this, this and this. I was starting to feel overwhelmed, and then my mom talked to me about what I had as a baby. I realized I didn't need 75% of what I was being told I needed. That really helped out.
And I agree about buying too many clothes in advance. My husband was really bad about it -- even buying clothes for when our son was 2 and 3 years old. Then they'd be put away for later, and we'd forget about them! Now, though, he's mellowed about that, and we try to buy only what we need -- on sale and from thrift stores.
I live in the US and agree with the European post. We (husband and me) are self-employed, and have been paying $1,360 to continue our COBRA family coverage since my husband was laid off last year. The only entities benefiting from our health care system in the US, are the “for profits”, including the Pharmaceutical and Insurance industries. Sadly, there appears little political will to change our profitable system, because those profiting have the means to lobby for industry favorable legislation, and appeal to the rugged individualism of American voters who prefer to have ownership of their medical risk (read:high debt), rather than pool our money together to spread risk and lower cost.
It's posts like these that really make me glad I'm Canadian.
Your point about not buying things ahead of time is excellent - yes, you will get gifts and plus if you buy in advance you might be tempted to "buy everything" just in case. Most of the stuff you see in stores is not needed.
Another reason to wait is that babies can be very different - just because all your friends bought strollers right away doesn't need you will need one - our second child refused to be in a stroller for several months.
I am pretty sure I read somewhere it is $8.88 per person, read the fine print. I am going to give it a try though, I just need a place to sleep for a few hours, so I'm not that picky this time.
Yup, if you don't have any insurance in the United States you'd go broke for just having a child. I read that C-sections are at least $25k and in California it could run even higher with longer hospital stays. I saw a movie about midwives and wrote about it here:
I'm a European and I'm appealad when I read articles like this.
$10-30k for a delivery in a US hospital? Are you kidding me? I'm sorry to say this people, I have a lot of friends in the US who I dearly love, but your health system simply sucks.The amount of money you pay for even basic health services is simply outrageous.
I live in newly joined EU member country, with high quality health services... and the delivery of a baby here cost.... nothing. It's free. And not only that, but the mortality rate of newborn babies is lower than that of the US (4.8/1000 here VS. 6.3/1000 in the US).
What I'm trying to say here is that is your goal is to live a high quality frugal life, US might not be the best place for it. $10-30k... get out of here..
Not only is it "nothing new." The auction website onsale.com (don't think it is an auction site anymore) was doing this back in the mid to late 90s. I think it would extend the auction by an extra 5 minutes.
I forget what's been mentioned above in the comments, but here's the things I can think of to save money on textbooks.
*Don't buy new at the university/college bookstore unless you have to (like for bundled stuff only the university has).
*Try to find used copies - even at the university bookstore if need be
*ask your professor about using an older edition - many times they are almost exactly the same, with minor changes. If you can buy an older edition, you will save at least 40%....many times it's closer to 80-90% off!
*Look for international versions - these are many times softcover books with thinner paper, but are much cheaper. Be aware that you will have a harder time trying to sell them at the end of the semester...unless you can find another student.
*See if you can find a bookswap website for your campus or another campus and try to find your books.
*Shop Online - there are tons of online bookstores (Amazon, half.com, Barnes and Noble, etc. Shop around.
*BETTER YET use a price comparison site....especially one that specializes in textbooks like http://www.CampusBooks4Less.com They will compare prices at tons of bookstores for you to find the best price.
MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL - Educate your professors about what they can do to help you save money. Many don't know what to do.
Here's a short list:
*Publish ISBN numbers ahead of time so students can compare prices
*Let students use older editions of books
*Get your Professor to write his/her textbook and class materials online and give them away.
*Tell them not to choose textbooks that are bundled with un-needed things or with workbooks that make selling back your books impossible.
*Ask them not to require the use of publisher websites that go along with the textbooks. These contain questions and additional materials that have to be accesed using a "key code" found on the inside cover of the book. A student can only use it once and then it is expired. This means that a new textbooks has to be bought to get an unused code.
Another reason not to buy clothes ahead of time is that other people are very kind. We received a flood of gifts, almost all of which were baby clothes. We did not need to buy clothes until she was one year old. Some of the clothes were never even used, as she grew out of them so fast. Other things were needed, like diapers, cots, bottles and so forth, but not clothes.
Unless you are a total loner with no friends, you may wish to take your time and see what the kindness of others brings. At the same time, be sure to show the same kindness to other new parents!
May I suggest calling the new parent and asking what they don't have yet? You are not obligated to get what they say, but I know that the baby utensils I got Chris were much more appreciated than yet another onesie. If you do go for clothes, get something for six months or older. Sure, you won't see it on the baby tomorrow, but it is much more likely to be used.
We had our baby at home, a little over three months ago, and paid $3000 to the midwife who assisted us. We pay $100/month into a college savings plan for our son, and $158/month for his health insurance. I spent about $30 on fabric to make diapers and a sling for him. Oh, and I did break down and buy a pair of shorts at a thrift store last week for $1.25. People offered hand me downs, and we gladly accepted. We'll pass them on to other people when our son doesn't need them anymore. His dresser used to be mine, and we attached a hand-me-down changing pad onto the top. Our crib was used ($30) and my parents contacted the manufacturer to make sure it still met code (he takes naps there, but has been co-sleeping with us at night, and recently moved into a hand me down bassinet). We spent $230 to buy an organic mattress for the crib, where he'll be sleeping after a few more months. The car seat was really the only other thing we needed, and my best friend lent us hers while she's between babies. It will probably only fit our son for another few months, and then we'll have to buy a new one, so we'll figure another couple hundred dollars there. I'm breastfeeding (free) and we've spent a total of about $40 on diapers so far, including the fabric we used to make them and the water and detergent to clean them (I hang them to dry - that's free too). The current diapers should fit for another few months before I have to alter them or make more. For me, the key has been to avoid shopping. I haven't been to Babies R Us or Target or any other place where I'd see lots of stuff that I didn't know I needed.
Well, my friend explained that the $25k figure was for people who did not have insurance because she got an itemized bill with the pre-insurance rates and insurance negotiated rates. She has insurance but she has to pay 30% out of pocket. This was with 2 days of hospital stay and each night was billed for $5000. She said she was really mad that the doctor was there only for 20 minutes and billed $3800. I guess California is one of the most expensive states to have a baby in.
For so many reasons that could (and will) be a whole new post. We're the only ones (or one of the few) who think surgeons (OB/GYNs) are necessary to attend low-risk births. We're not the only ones with a 30% surgical delivery rate, but that certainly doesn't help keep costs down.
You don't need a high tolerance for pain to give birth outside a medical setting. Few people "tolerate" the pain of childbirth, but it is a temporary condition, after all.
By the way, we never paid a dime for either of our children's births -- insurance covered everything, including three-day hospital stays each time (for different reasons). Most, though not all, of our friends also had their deliveries fully covered. So while I agree it's a good thing to look into before getting knocked up, I woudln't freak out about it until you find out. You may well be fully covered.
$25k? Yikes. Even without insurance, I've heard much cheaper figures in the US.
My insurance is picking up most of the costs for my delivery at the end of this year, and my out of pocket expenses for the entire pregnancy will be about $280. I'm very fortunate!
Wow is that for real? $25000 for normal delivery?! Maybe that hospital is the most expensive hospital in the world? Here in the Philippines, a normal deliver could cost $1000-$1,200 only! Well that was almost 2 years ago. So here's the personal finance tip for expecting mothers, go to any 3rd world country to save money*laughs*.
Anyway, I do agree with the points above. Always secure a health insurance for your baby. Well my employer took care of that so it was no big deal for me. I also did some part time web development months before arrival of our baby to augment our cash flow. Another thing, I agree with the post above, don't buy too much clothes. Baby grow so fast that in a weeks time, 1 dozen of socks you bought a week ago may no longer fit your baby's growing feet! Better ask relatives if they have one-which in our tradition we no longer have to since they just give it to us without even asking:)
I remember a dinner at a Dim Sum Buffet restaurant with 9 other friends.
Hitting the line I came across the aforementioned Dragon-Pheonix claws...Deep Fried in a wonderful Spicy Sweet Peking Duck like sauce....I scooped the tray clean and proceeded to enjoy the crispy skin and the sweet small pad of white meat in the center of the 4 "toes" while telling everyone else to never mind when they asked what they were.
When they finally insisted and I told them they were "Chicken Feet" I got 9 strange looks and a collective "EEEUUUWWWW" from them. Needless to say I did NOT inform them about what was in some of the things they were raving about as they chowed down...
The chef was just in to the US after having practiced the art of Dim Sum in Hong Kong for over 25 years...everything on the Menu was Delicacies as served there...everything but the Oink and the Beak went into them...Gawd was it Delicious!!!!
The eating of sexual organs isn't anything tasty so much as leftover superstition of gained virility, like beef testosterone will translate to making a guy more fertile or his dick bigger when it's 2-3inches. Pffle
I'm a proud omnivore happy to eat digest and consume other living beings for my sustenance. Plants, fungi and fish seafood ARE beings too.
I completely and totally reject this article. Anything based on a so-called trend expert like Haltzman (who happens to believe that it's a woman's job to give up everything to cater to their husbands) really isn't about a real "trend." It's sounds to me that stay at home wife is another term for a housekeeper and personal assistant that works for free. Pfft. No thanks.
I think your advice is very good! I had one noninsured hospital birth and we set it up to pay it off in two and a half years with no interest. We asked for self pay discounts from the doctor and hospital. We even called the epidural company and anyone we ran into who would be sending us a bill to negotiate prices. We got a list of items needed and went to CVS to buy them. We even bought silly things such as stool softener. When we were ready to pay it in full after 2 years, we called to get the balance and they gave us another discount as well for making a final payment to pay it off early. The total was about $6000 instead of $10000.
If you have a high pain tolerance, get a midwife and the cost will only run you about $2500.
25k for a delivery without complications is outrageous. We paid about 8 to 10k, both C-sections, first unplanned, second planned. Hospitals offer guided tours through their delivery stations; don't hesitate to ask an administrator there (not the guide) for prices, to compare with other hospitals.
Breastfeeding is best, even for the wallet, but it is important to not put pressure on the mother if it doesn't work. Some woman have problem with breastfeeding, for them bottle feeding is good.
Cosleeping is best, to give the baby natural comfort and to avoid loosing too much sleep yourself. A bassinet at the edge of the bed or a small basket-like bed between the parents are both fine. For 9-12 months, the baby can sleep with the parents, then the baby and the parents need to have the baby in its own bed.
Childcare is really expensive, look around for cheap but sufficient care. From three or more children, consider a nanny. We pay 2000 per month for childcare, also due to state rules about allowable teacher-children ratios. That is our highest monthly expense.
Another very frugal thing to consider: Breastfeeding. Besides the high price of formula ($20/tin, which lasts only a few days!), it has health benefits, which might save you more down the road. Even if you have to pump at work, the cost of a pump is likely to be less than the cost of formula.
Depending on your level of hippie/crunchy parenting, you might also consider not buying a crib and "co-sleeping" (it sounded crazy to me, until I was an exhausted new parent). It's not for everyone, but it can be incredibly convenient, a good bonding experience, and cheaper.
Also, Freecycle is a great source for all sorts of hand me downs -- start early!
Health Savings Accounts are an alternative to Flexible Spending Accounts; you get to keep the money year over year, but there are restrictions on what sort of insurance you can have in order to contribute to it.
As I understand it, cloth diapers are cheaper than disposables in the long run (especially if you have more than one kid) and they are certainly better for the environment. They're worth considering.
A friend of mine recently dyed some of her daughters onesies black. I bought another friend a black onesie for her son that had a skull and crossbones on it, and read "Yo ho ho and a bottle of milk."
One thing that really struck me when I was pregnant was the rampant consumerism. This idea that you *need* all this stuff. You *need* a diaper genie. You *need* all sorts of fancy toys. You *need* this, this, this and this. I was starting to feel overwhelmed, and then my mom talked to me about what I had as a baby. I realized I didn't need 75% of what I was being told I needed. That really helped out.
And I agree about buying too many clothes in advance. My husband was really bad about it -- even buying clothes for when our son was 2 and 3 years old. Then they'd be put away for later, and we'd forget about them! Now, though, he's mellowed about that, and we try to buy only what we need -- on sale and from thrift stores.
I live in the US and agree with the European post. We (husband and me) are self-employed, and have been paying $1,360 to continue our COBRA family coverage since my husband was laid off last year. The only entities benefiting from our health care system in the US, are the “for profits”, including the Pharmaceutical and Insurance industries. Sadly, there appears little political will to change our profitable system, because those profiting have the means to lobby for industry favorable legislation, and appeal to the rugged individualism of American voters who prefer to have ownership of their medical risk (read:high debt), rather than pool our money together to spread risk and lower cost.
It's posts like these that really make me glad I'm Canadian.
Your point about not buying things ahead of time is excellent - yes, you will get gifts and plus if you buy in advance you might be tempted to "buy everything" just in case. Most of the stuff you see in stores is not needed.
Another reason to wait is that babies can be very different - just because all your friends bought strollers right away doesn't need you will need one - our second child refused to be in a stroller for several months.
Mike
I am pretty sure I read somewhere it is $8.88 per person, read the fine print. I am going to give it a try though, I just need a place to sleep for a few hours, so I'm not that picky this time.
OMFG. This was awesome. I've read about it before, but, your post just sums it up so well.
Yup, if you don't have any insurance in the United States you'd go broke for just having a child. I read that C-sections are at least $25k and in California it could run even higher with longer hospital stays. I saw a movie about midwives and wrote about it here:
The Business of Being Born
That seems like a good choice for many women.
I'm a European and I'm appealad when I read articles like this.
$10-30k for a delivery in a US hospital? Are you kidding me? I'm sorry to say this people, I have a lot of friends in the US who I dearly love, but your health system simply sucks.The amount of money you pay for even basic health services is simply outrageous.
I live in newly joined EU member country, with high quality health services... and the delivery of a baby here cost.... nothing. It's free. And not only that, but the mortality rate of newborn babies is lower than that of the US (4.8/1000 here VS. 6.3/1000 in the US).
What I'm trying to say here is that is your goal is to live a high quality frugal life, US might not be the best place for it. $10-30k... get out of here..
Not only is it "nothing new." The auction website onsale.com (don't think it is an auction site anymore) was doing this back in the mid to late 90s. I think it would extend the auction by an extra 5 minutes.
I forget what's been mentioned above in the comments, but here's the things I can think of to save money on textbooks.
*Don't buy new at the university/college bookstore unless you have to (like for bundled stuff only the university has).
*Try to find used copies - even at the university bookstore if need be
*ask your professor about using an older edition - many times they are almost exactly the same, with minor changes. If you can buy an older edition, you will save at least 40%....many times it's closer to 80-90% off!
*Look for international versions - these are many times softcover books with thinner paper, but are much cheaper. Be aware that you will have a harder time trying to sell them at the end of the semester...unless you can find another student.
*See if you can find a bookswap website for your campus or another campus and try to find your books.
*Shop Online - there are tons of online bookstores (Amazon, half.com, Barnes and Noble, etc. Shop around.
*BETTER YET use a price comparison site....especially one that specializes in textbooks like http://www.CampusBooks4Less.com They will compare prices at tons of bookstores for you to find the best price.
MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL - Educate your professors about what they can do to help you save money. Many don't know what to do.
Here's a short list:
*Publish ISBN numbers ahead of time so students can compare prices
*Let students use older editions of books
*Get your Professor to write his/her textbook and class materials online and give them away.
*Tell them not to choose textbooks that are bundled with un-needed things or with workbooks that make selling back your books impossible.
*Ask them not to require the use of publisher websites that go along with the textbooks. These contain questions and additional materials that have to be accesed using a "key code" found on the inside cover of the book. A student can only use it once and then it is expired. This means that a new textbooks has to be bought to get an unused code.
That's all that comes to mind right now
Why don't we start eating human beings... I mean if we are carnivores..
To take an animals life for your taste is disgusting...
Another reason not to buy clothes ahead of time is that other people are very kind. We received a flood of gifts, almost all of which were baby clothes. We did not need to buy clothes until she was one year old. Some of the clothes were never even used, as she grew out of them so fast. Other things were needed, like diapers, cots, bottles and so forth, but not clothes.
Unless you are a total loner with no friends, you may wish to take your time and see what the kindness of others brings. At the same time, be sure to show the same kindness to other new parents!
May I suggest calling the new parent and asking what they don't have yet? You are not obligated to get what they say, but I know that the baby utensils I got Chris were much more appreciated than yet another onesie. If you do go for clothes, get something for six months or older. Sure, you won't see it on the baby tomorrow, but it is much more likely to be used.
First you need to understand why insurance is taken. The answer will clearly indicate whether to take a policy or not.
We had our baby at home, a little over three months ago, and paid $3000 to the midwife who assisted us. We pay $100/month into a college savings plan for our son, and $158/month for his health insurance. I spent about $30 on fabric to make diapers and a sling for him. Oh, and I did break down and buy a pair of shorts at a thrift store last week for $1.25. People offered hand me downs, and we gladly accepted. We'll pass them on to other people when our son doesn't need them anymore. His dresser used to be mine, and we attached a hand-me-down changing pad onto the top. Our crib was used ($30) and my parents contacted the manufacturer to make sure it still met code (he takes naps there, but has been co-sleeping with us at night, and recently moved into a hand me down bassinet). We spent $230 to buy an organic mattress for the crib, where he'll be sleeping after a few more months. The car seat was really the only other thing we needed, and my best friend lent us hers while she's between babies. It will probably only fit our son for another few months, and then we'll have to buy a new one, so we'll figure another couple hundred dollars there. I'm breastfeeding (free) and we've spent a total of about $40 on diapers so far, including the fabric we used to make them and the water and detergent to clean them (I hang them to dry - that's free too). The current diapers should fit for another few months before I have to alter them or make more. For me, the key has been to avoid shopping. I haven't been to Babies R Us or Target or any other place where I'd see lots of stuff that I didn't know I needed.
Well, my friend explained that the $25k figure was for people who did not have insurance because she got an itemized bill with the pre-insurance rates and insurance negotiated rates. She has insurance but she has to pay 30% out of pocket. This was with 2 days of hospital stay and each night was billed for $5000. She said she was really mad that the doctor was there only for 20 minutes and billed $3800. I guess California is one of the most expensive states to have a baby in.
For so many reasons that could (and will) be a whole new post. We're the only ones (or one of the few) who think surgeons (OB/GYNs) are necessary to attend low-risk births. We're not the only ones with a 30% surgical delivery rate, but that certainly doesn't help keep costs down.
You don't need a high tolerance for pain to give birth outside a medical setting. Few people "tolerate" the pain of childbirth, but it is a temporary condition, after all.
By the way, we never paid a dime for either of our children's births -- insurance covered everything, including three-day hospital stays each time (for different reasons). Most, though not all, of our friends also had their deliveries fully covered. So while I agree it's a good thing to look into before getting knocked up, I woudln't freak out about it until you find out. You may well be fully covered.
$25k? Yikes. Even without insurance, I've heard much cheaper figures in the US.
My insurance is picking up most of the costs for my delivery at the end of this year, and my out of pocket expenses for the entire pregnancy will be about $280. I'm very fortunate!
Wow is that for real? $25000 for normal delivery?! Maybe that hospital is the most expensive hospital in the world? Here in the Philippines, a normal deliver could cost $1000-$1,200 only! Well that was almost 2 years ago. So here's the personal finance tip for expecting mothers, go to any 3rd world country to save money*laughs*.
Anyway, I do agree with the points above. Always secure a health insurance for your baby. Well my employer took care of that so it was no big deal for me. I also did some part time web development months before arrival of our baby to augment our cash flow. Another thing, I agree with the post above, don't buy too much clothes. Baby grow so fast that in a weeks time, 1 dozen of socks you bought a week ago may no longer fit your baby's growing feet! Better ask relatives if they have one-which in our tradition we no longer have to since they just give it to us without even asking:)
Sam
Fix My Personal Finance
http://fixmypersonalfinance.com/
or at least the Dragon-Pheonix Claws.
I remember a dinner at a Dim Sum Buffet restaurant with 9 other friends.
Hitting the line I came across the aforementioned Dragon-Pheonix claws...Deep Fried in a wonderful Spicy Sweet Peking Duck like sauce....I scooped the tray clean and proceeded to enjoy the crispy skin and the sweet small pad of white meat in the center of the 4 "toes" while telling everyone else to never mind when they asked what they were.
When they finally insisted and I told them they were "Chicken Feet" I got 9 strange looks and a collective "EEEUUUWWWW" from them. Needless to say I did NOT inform them about what was in some of the things they were raving about as they chowed down...
The chef was just in to the US after having practiced the art of Dim Sum in Hong Kong for over 25 years...everything on the Menu was Delicacies as served there...everything but the Oink and the Beak went into them...Gawd was it Delicious!!!!
~ Roland
The eating of sexual organs isn't anything tasty so much as leftover superstition of gained virility, like beef testosterone will translate to making a guy more fertile or his dick bigger when it's 2-3inches. Pffle
I'm a proud omnivore happy to eat digest and consume other living beings for my sustenance. Plants, fungi and fish seafood ARE beings too.
Cost to have my son at home=$0.
Cost for my daughter-in-law to have her son and daughter at home=$0
Not everyone can do this, but it's something to think about.
I completely and totally reject this article. Anything based on a so-called trend expert like Haltzman (who happens to believe that it's a woman's job to give up everything to cater to their husbands) really isn't about a real "trend." It's sounds to me that stay at home wife is another term for a housekeeper and personal assistant that works for free. Pfft. No thanks.
I think your advice is very good! I had one noninsured hospital birth and we set it up to pay it off in two and a half years with no interest. We asked for self pay discounts from the doctor and hospital. We even called the epidural company and anyone we ran into who would be sending us a bill to negotiate prices. We got a list of items needed and went to CVS to buy them. We even bought silly things such as stool softener. When we were ready to pay it in full after 2 years, we called to get the balance and they gave us another discount as well for making a final payment to pay it off early. The total was about $6000 instead of $10000.
If you have a high pain tolerance, get a midwife and the cost will only run you about $2500.
We have two children, four and one years old.
25k for a delivery without complications is outrageous. We paid about 8 to 10k, both C-sections, first unplanned, second planned. Hospitals offer guided tours through their delivery stations; don't hesitate to ask an administrator there (not the guide) for prices, to compare with other hospitals.
Breastfeeding is best, even for the wallet, but it is important to not put pressure on the mother if it doesn't work. Some woman have problem with breastfeeding, for them bottle feeding is good.
Cosleeping is best, to give the baby natural comfort and to avoid loosing too much sleep yourself. A bassinet at the edge of the bed or a small basket-like bed between the parents are both fine. For 9-12 months, the baby can sleep with the parents, then the baby and the parents need to have the baby in its own bed.
Childcare is really expensive, look around for cheap but sufficient care. From three or more children, consider a nanny. We pay 2000 per month for childcare, also due to state rules about allowable teacher-children ratios. That is our highest monthly expense.
Another very frugal thing to consider: Breastfeeding. Besides the high price of formula ($20/tin, which lasts only a few days!), it has health benefits, which might save you more down the road. Even if you have to pump at work, the cost of a pump is likely to be less than the cost of formula.
Depending on your level of hippie/crunchy parenting, you might also consider not buying a crib and "co-sleeping" (it sounded crazy to me, until I was an exhausted new parent). It's not for everyone, but it can be incredibly convenient, a good bonding experience, and cheaper.
Also, Freecycle is a great source for all sorts of hand me downs -- start early!
Health Savings Accounts are an alternative to Flexible Spending Accounts; you get to keep the money year over year, but there are restrictions on what sort of insurance you can have in order to contribute to it.
As I understand it, cloth diapers are cheaper than disposables in the long run (especially if you have more than one kid) and they are certainly better for the environment. They're worth considering.
A friend of mine recently dyed some of her daughters onesies black. I bought another friend a black onesie for her son that had a skull and crossbones on it, and read "Yo ho ho and a bottle of milk."