I got my first credit card when I was 17 and just about to start college. Because of a combination of my age and their desire to watch out for their firstborn, it was a joint card with my mother - my parents have excellent credit - and I was given the following instructions:
0. Treat this like a debit card. Pay in full every month.
1. You are responsible for checking your own statement and making your own payments.
2. Buy every purchase you possibly can with this credit card. (I had already been raised to not buy anything unless I absolutely needed it, so this instruction did not result in wanton spending.) It will make financial reviews easier for you.
3. There are some things (textbooks, etc) we will reimburse you for - IF you keep clean records, save receipts, and write us with justifications in a timely manner. These reimbursals will be made to your bank account. You are still responsible for your credit card.
I got a job on the campus library soon after and almost never asked my parents to reimburse me. Sometimes I'd see my friends getting credit cards, student loans, cars, etc. and being less fiscally responsible. It was one of my goals to become financially independent from my parents before graduating from college, so I would occasionally talk with them when I was home for breaks about some of these other spending habit styles, giving my clumsy teenage analysis of short-vs-long-term tradeoffs for them, always getting reassurance and confirmation that my (boring, frugal) money habits would put me on the track I wanted to be on.
Sure, I worked multiple jobs on top of studying full-time, and organized late-night pancake parties (a $20 giant bag of Costco pancake mix lasts all year, just add water and tell your friends to bring things to put in/on the pancakes) instead of hitting the city for dinner, but had excellent credit by the time I graduated at 21 with no debt and enough in savings to intermittently travel, volunteer, and intern for a year before starting my first full-time job. Once I did, I found myself ahead of the curve when preparing project finances for work - I already knew how to track statements, justify spending, and so forth.
I'm 24 now, and starting to look for my first house. If I ever have kids, this is how I want to introduce them to credit.
Excellent article - sorry I missed the PBS show. I worked on Wall Street in the '80s and '90s and was one of the few women on the trading desk. Luckily there are reviews every six months and they pretty much judge you by your numbers. On Wall Street the saying is "you're only as good as your last trade". But in subsequent jobs I had the same problem of being "too aggressive" if I asked for a raise. Unfortunately the workforce management is still biased so before you ask for a salary increase "know your boss" and exercise some psychological warfare.
I'm always surprised at the stuff people think is necessary for a baby, but I suppose after a while, it's less a matter of necessity and more a matter of convenience. Not because parents are lazy, but because they are exhausted! :)
My mom instilled the fear of the credit card gods in me for a long time, so I didn't get my first until sometime after I graduated college and had a job. Think I would have done fine with one earlier, but I didn't miss what I didn't know.
The Washington Post had a good article on Babcock's work back in 2007.
Salary, Gender and the Social Cost of Haggling
It has details of Babcock's studies with larger groups of people. The bias against women negotiating was consistent through the groups of volunteers. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/29/AR200707...
It seems to me - the best way to capture salary increases without the penalty is to find a new job - where you negotiate with the HR person for the starting salary. Since you're not working for the HR person - who's been empowered with a salary range - any disapproval they feel isn't going to translate to working for the new boss. Twisted, huh?
I also think salary transparency helps to resolve such issues. Which of course is why most organizations want to keep salaries secret because it exposes salary biases that are unrelated to job performance.
I do want to point out your comments that kind of captures the entire circular challenge here: " I have no idea if there really WAS something about this woman who struck totally reasonable study participants as really unlikable. "
But what if the man was also unlikable? And still got the raise? This is the heart of the issue - unlikeable men still get raises. Women are regarded as unlikeable merely for asking. And yet you're disturbed by the recc for women to negotiate while staying w/in feminine stereotypes, i.e. likeable. You can't have it both ways:-)
"Also, I've worked at companies with women who I loathed because of their overly aggressive and bossy nature. I'm as bad as anyone else when it comes to thinking that an aggressive, business-minded woman is just, to be frank, kind of a bitch."
Did you think the same way about pushy over aggressive men? Is it a matter of degree or a result of socialization that ambitious women that don't soft pedal it are just bitchy?
(http://ambitchous.typepad.com/ambition_is_not_a_dirty_w/ambition/) Dr. Debra Condren explores this area.
I'm not trying to beat up on you here -
I'm a woman, I've had the same the reaction at times, but I do try very hard these days to catch myself and ask - would I have the same reaction if she were male? Occasionally the answer is yes - she'd still be an asshole - but more often it's no - I'd just think he's going after it. And I make a real effort to say something anytime I hear/witness unequal judgement. " Bob's using the same approach" or "John had's great success with that - it's good to see Carol adopting it" anything to try and connect it as a behavior that's rewarded in men. (Note this does not apply to harassing, demeaning, or otherwise objectionable behavior).
The good news here is Babcock's research means women aren't imagining the inequity and it's not all their fault. The bad news is we aren't imagining the inequity and it's not all our fault:-) But now that's documented progress can be worked on.
We can't tell women to be more assertive and then ding them when they do it.
Bottom line - men and women both need training WRT to gender based negotiating bias.
Technically, I got my first credit card about five years ago when my mom put my name on her account to build my credit, but I never had a card. Her account had been around for 12 years at the time, and I actually was able to build up credit that way. I got a credit card about 4 years ago through my bank. I got the card for car-related emergencies before moving cross-country.
I found myself nodding excessively while reading this. I'm actually working on a project about female aggression right now and how it's perceived by society. I find it so sad that women those few women who do express themselves freely have to suffer the consequences of being judged...while the women who don't express their aggression, and yes, I do call it aggression, usually turn their aggression inwards and let it build up. Great article!
I got my first credit card at 16 and it was co-signed by a relative. It had a $300 limit and taught me an important lesson about finances. After I graduated high school, I raised the limit and took a Spanish immersion trip to Mexico that I financed mainly through that credit card. It took me almost 3 years to pay it off! I shudder to think about the amount of interest I paid. I still have the card today with a $1000 limit, but with a zero balance. I either use cash or debit, or credit only if I know I will pay it off at the end of the month.
Most people say "Sixteen- that's way to early!" But I responsible and my family taught me about finances at a fairly young age. Having the credit card before college was just another step in introducing me to the real world before I actually entered it.
I worked at one of the huge electronics stores way back in the day and it was once explained to me that pretty much everything they sold was considered a "perceived need," and that their marketers worked around that.
Basically, nobody *needs* any of the junk they sell in that store, but they've become very good at making people *think* they need it.
I'm surprised and disappointed that you didn't mention cloth diapering, which is a great way to save money when you have a baby--especially if you plan to have more than one--and keeps a lot of diapers out of the landfill. Cloth diapers have come a long way. It does require an upfront investment and there is more work with cloth in terms of increased laundry, but cloth diapering really pays off financially over the 2-3 years that your child will be in diapers. There are great sites to learn more: cottonbabies.com, greenmountaindiapers.com and lots of others.
I got my first credit card at 18 -- just before starting college. I had a plan that I'd always pay it off within 21 days of every purchase...and to my parents' surprise, I always did!
Here is one for you. We purchased our condo in 2005 at a height of the market at an interest rate of 6.75%. In 2009, we decided to put the condo on the market, because we wanted to avoid foreclosure. After lowering the asking price 3 times, the condo still did not sell. As an alternate, we decided to look in to lease to own option and actually, found someone who was interested. We agreed on a monthly lease payment, a purchase price and a one year term. Now here comes the kicker. After the term of the lease (the lessee had dragged her feet to purchase)was up, the condo had depreciated not only far below what we had originally agreed on. But also, below what we owe. We are stuck now, because, best scenario would be, she pays what we owe the bank and we would walk away +- zero. But that is still 100k above what the current market here is holding. The deal she wants would mean a short sale for us. We cannot refi either, because we do not live in the property. Luckily, she is still paying our interest only loan with her rent, but if she decides to look for another, cheaper, property, we are screwed, because her rent payment is far above market. Our fault....I don't think so. The condo was meant for us to live in, not investment property. The situation changed drastically. You live and learn.
I got my first credit card on my 19th birthday. At first, my aunt suggested I never get one. But I was moving away, and she suggested I go with one of the pre-approved offer in the mail as LONG as it had no annual fees.
I've had a wonderful relationship with plastic since. I have four (two of which are rewards/store cards) for the sole reason that I just want to track my spending from that particular store...if I ever have trouble, at least I'll know where to look first.
I got my first credit card back '92, when I was just a freshman in college. In fact, I still have it and must admit it's still my favorite credit card; because it pays to Discover. ;)
I worked and always tried to spend based on what I could afford to pay off at the end of the month.
When I was a sophomore in high school, I got a credit card with a $300 limit before a trip to Europe with my history class. It allowed me to shop in Europe without having to worry about exchanging money or carrying a ton of cash. Plus, since the limit was so low, my parents were completely comfortable with me having it. Another benefit: since I kept this card (and I still have it active, although I don't use it), my credit score is improved by my 10 years of credit history.
Thanks Little House, we made a lot of sacrifices and after moving (during my fiance's post doc), we will still will rent. People need to make choices based on finances not wants.
I started using my first credit card when I was about 15. For some reason, Visa invited me to join my dad's account. I started working at 14, so I think it was a great way to understand the value of working and managing my own money at a relatively early age. When I turned 18, I opened my own account and closed the account with my dad. At this point, I'm 26 and have 10 years of great credit behind me. Can't buy that...or, wait...
got my first card (capital one) when i was just going to college. i got it through an ad mailed to me. i think it was the perfect timing for me cuz it helped to teach me independence at a perfect time.
I got my first credit card when I was 17 and just about to start college. Because of a combination of my age and their desire to watch out for their firstborn, it was a joint card with my mother - my parents have excellent credit - and I was given the following instructions:
0. Treat this like a debit card. Pay in full every month.
1. You are responsible for checking your own statement and making your own payments.
2. Buy every purchase you possibly can with this credit card. (I had already been raised to not buy anything unless I absolutely needed it, so this instruction did not result in wanton spending.) It will make financial reviews easier for you.
3. There are some things (textbooks, etc) we will reimburse you for - IF you keep clean records, save receipts, and write us with justifications in a timely manner. These reimbursals will be made to your bank account. You are still responsible for your credit card.
I got a job on the campus library soon after and almost never asked my parents to reimburse me. Sometimes I'd see my friends getting credit cards, student loans, cars, etc. and being less fiscally responsible. It was one of my goals to become financially independent from my parents before graduating from college, so I would occasionally talk with them when I was home for breaks about some of these other spending habit styles, giving my clumsy teenage analysis of short-vs-long-term tradeoffs for them, always getting reassurance and confirmation that my (boring, frugal) money habits would put me on the track I wanted to be on.
Sure, I worked multiple jobs on top of studying full-time, and organized late-night pancake parties (a $20 giant bag of Costco pancake mix lasts all year, just add water and tell your friends to bring things to put in/on the pancakes) instead of hitting the city for dinner, but had excellent credit by the time I graduated at 21 with no debt and enough in savings to intermittently travel, volunteer, and intern for a year before starting my first full-time job. Once I did, I found myself ahead of the curve when preparing project finances for work - I already knew how to track statements, justify spending, and so forth.
I'm 24 now, and starting to look for my first house. If I ever have kids, this is how I want to introduce them to credit.
Excellent article - sorry I missed the PBS show. I worked on Wall Street in the '80s and '90s and was one of the few women on the trading desk. Luckily there are reviews every six months and they pretty much judge you by your numbers. On Wall Street the saying is "you're only as good as your last trade". But in subsequent jobs I had the same problem of being "too aggressive" if I asked for a raise. Unfortunately the workforce management is still biased so before you ask for a salary increase "know your boss" and exercise some psychological warfare.
I'm always surprised at the stuff people think is necessary for a baby, but I suppose after a while, it's less a matter of necessity and more a matter of convenience. Not because parents are lazy, but because they are exhausted! :)
Number 3 is a big issue in our house, and I think it's partly a matter of having combined two households into one.
My mom instilled the fear of the credit card gods in me for a long time, so I didn't get my first until sometime after I graduated college and had a job. Think I would have done fine with one earlier, but I didn't miss what I didn't know.
I plan on on going to the bank today and trying to get a student credit card.
The Washington Post had a good article on Babcock's work back in 2007.
Salary, Gender and the Social Cost of Haggling
It has details of Babcock's studies with larger groups of people. The bias against women negotiating was consistent through the groups of volunteers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/29/AR200707...
It seems to me - the best way to capture salary increases without the penalty is to find a new job - where you negotiate with the HR person for the starting salary. Since you're not working for the HR person - who's been empowered with a salary range - any disapproval they feel isn't going to translate to working for the new boss. Twisted, huh?
I also think salary transparency helps to resolve such issues. Which of course is why most organizations want to keep salaries secret because it exposes salary biases that are unrelated to job performance.
I do want to point out your comments that kind of captures the entire circular challenge here: " I have no idea if there really WAS something about this woman who struck totally reasonable study participants as really unlikable. "
But what if the man was also unlikable? And still got the raise? This is the heart of the issue - unlikeable men still get raises. Women are regarded as unlikeable merely for asking. And yet you're disturbed by the recc for women to negotiate while staying w/in feminine stereotypes, i.e. likeable. You can't have it both ways:-)
"Also, I've worked at companies with women who I loathed because of their overly aggressive and bossy nature. I'm as bad as anyone else when it comes to thinking that an aggressive, business-minded woman is just, to be frank, kind of a bitch."
Did you think the same way about pushy over aggressive men? Is it a matter of degree or a result of socialization that ambitious women that don't soft pedal it are just bitchy?
(http://ambitchous.typepad.com/ambition_is_not_a_dirty_w/ambition/) Dr. Debra Condren explores this area.
I'm not trying to beat up on you here -
I'm a woman, I've had the same the reaction at times, but I do try very hard these days to catch myself and ask - would I have the same reaction if she were male? Occasionally the answer is yes - she'd still be an asshole - but more often it's no - I'd just think he's going after it. And I make a real effort to say something anytime I hear/witness unequal judgement. " Bob's using the same approach" or "John had's great success with that - it's good to see Carol adopting it" anything to try and connect it as a behavior that's rewarded in men. (Note this does not apply to harassing, demeaning, or otherwise objectionable behavior).
The good news here is Babcock's research means women aren't imagining the inequity and it's not all their fault. The bad news is we aren't imagining the inequity and it's not all our fault:-) But now that's documented progress can be worked on.
We can't tell women to be more assertive and then ding them when they do it.
Bottom line - men and women both need training WRT to gender based negotiating bias.
Technically, I got my first credit card about five years ago when my mom put my name on her account to build my credit, but I never had a card. Her account had been around for 12 years at the time, and I actually was able to build up credit that way. I got a credit card about 4 years ago through my bank. I got the card for car-related emergencies before moving cross-country.
I found myself nodding excessively while reading this. I'm actually working on a project about female aggression right now and how it's perceived by society. I find it so sad that women those few women who do express themselves freely have to suffer the consequences of being judged...while the women who don't express their aggression, and yes, I do call it aggression, usually turn their aggression inwards and let it build up. Great article!
I got my first credit card at 16 and it was co-signed by a relative. It had a $300 limit and taught me an important lesson about finances. After I graduated high school, I raised the limit and took a Spanish immersion trip to Mexico that I financed mainly through that credit card. It took me almost 3 years to pay it off! I shudder to think about the amount of interest I paid. I still have the card today with a $1000 limit, but with a zero balance. I either use cash or debit, or credit only if I know I will pay it off at the end of the month.
Most people say "Sixteen- that's way to early!" But I responsible and my family taught me about finances at a fairly young age. Having the credit card before college was just another step in introducing me to the real world before I actually entered it.
I worked at one of the huge electronics stores way back in the day and it was once explained to me that pretty much everything they sold was considered a "perceived need," and that their marketers worked around that.
Basically, nobody *needs* any of the junk they sell in that store, but they've become very good at making people *think* they need it.
I'm surprised and disappointed that you didn't mention cloth diapering, which is a great way to save money when you have a baby--especially if you plan to have more than one--and keeps a lot of diapers out of the landfill. Cloth diapers have come a long way. It does require an upfront investment and there is more work with cloth in terms of increased laundry, but cloth diapering really pays off financially over the 2-3 years that your child will be in diapers. There are great sites to learn more: cottonbabies.com, greenmountaindiapers.com and lots of others.
I got my first credit card at 18 -- just before starting college. I had a plan that I'd always pay it off within 21 days of every purchase...and to my parents' surprise, I always did!
Here is one for you. We purchased our condo in 2005 at a height of the market at an interest rate of 6.75%. In 2009, we decided to put the condo on the market, because we wanted to avoid foreclosure. After lowering the asking price 3 times, the condo still did not sell. As an alternate, we decided to look in to lease to own option and actually, found someone who was interested. We agreed on a monthly lease payment, a purchase price and a one year term. Now here comes the kicker. After the term of the lease (the lessee had dragged her feet to purchase)was up, the condo had depreciated not only far below what we had originally agreed on. But also, below what we owe. We are stuck now, because, best scenario would be, she pays what we owe the bank and we would walk away +- zero. But that is still 100k above what the current market here is holding. The deal she wants would mean a short sale for us. We cannot refi either, because we do not live in the property. Luckily, she is still paying our interest only loan with her rent, but if she decides to look for another, cheaper, property, we are screwed, because her rent payment is far above market. Our fault....I don't think so. The condo was meant for us to live in, not investment property. The situation changed drastically. You live and learn.
I got my first credit card on my 19th birthday. At first, my aunt suggested I never get one. But I was moving away, and she suggested I go with one of the pre-approved offer in the mail as LONG as it had no annual fees.
I've had a wonderful relationship with plastic since. I have four (two of which are rewards/store cards) for the sole reason that I just want to track my spending from that particular store...if I ever have trouble, at least I'll know where to look first.
Law School. (I still could not understand what most of the fine print said).
this is so lovely! i would be honored to be featured in something like this...you sure made the shop owners feel special!
I got my first credit card back '92, when I was just a freshman in college. In fact, I still have it and must admit it's still my favorite credit card; because it pays to Discover. ;)
I worked and always tried to spend based on what I could afford to pay off at the end of the month.
When I was a sophomore in high school, I got a credit card with a $300 limit before a trip to Europe with my history class. It allowed me to shop in Europe without having to worry about exchanging money or carrying a ton of cash. Plus, since the limit was so low, my parents were completely comfortable with me having it. Another benefit: since I kept this card (and I still have it active, although I don't use it), my credit score is improved by my 10 years of credit history.
I got my first credit card in college---you know, when they give you a free t-shirt for signing up. Blast them all for that.
Paul you're AWESOME I loved it!! Thank's for helping me in my interview.
Cheers Gaby ;)
Thanks Little House, we made a lot of sacrifices and after moving (during my fiance's post doc), we will still will rent. People need to make choices based on finances not wants.
I started using my first credit card when I was about 15. For some reason, Visa invited me to join my dad's account. I started working at 14, so I think it was a great way to understand the value of working and managing my own money at a relatively early age. When I turned 18, I opened my own account and closed the account with my dad. At this point, I'm 26 and have 10 years of great credit behind me. Can't buy that...or, wait...
got my first card (capital one) when i was just going to college. i got it through an ad mailed to me. i think it was the perfect timing for me cuz it helped to teach me independence at a perfect time.
When I saw this post i smiled, because i've the excat same thing. I've done a few repairs myself as a girl i'm very proud of that fact.