Excellent ideas, Paul. These are some great resources to help us start "arranging our rich"... Actually, the more I say it, the more I like it - we should all make it our catch phrase :)
So, then the question becomes: how can I arrange my rich today?
Coal is a fossil fuel that contains a lot of bad chemicals use activated charcoal (wood burned in the absence of oxygen) I'm not sure how it works i just know it does
I have come to know a few people well in the grocery store that I use. I get the inside scoop on when items will be on sale/or marked down. I recently bought ham (boneless, already sliced) for $5 a package. I bought 4. Various cheeses were marked down to .99 each. I bulk buy my turkey meat (I make my dogs food). So I know what goes into their food. I've done this for many many years. One of the ladies called me and told me that children's cough medicine was being marked down to $1.00, only because one bottle broke and cough medicine was on the bottoms of the other bottles, and some were normally $8.99 each. Wal-mart will match grocery ads if you bring in the flier. Keep in mind that they won't do percetages or BOGO offers. They also won't mark items down like I've mentioned, let alone call me. Our freezers are full, and my pantry is decent. I buy fresh frozen vegetables from some farmers. And I'll say this, I oouldn't find it any better in taste or cost! They have my business. I buy steaks on sale at an older grocery store, the building is paid for, so they say they can save us even more money.
I enjoyed the article.
So far after two weeks of CVS shopping, I have ended up returning what I bought both times because they were not the right items. The combination between having my kids with me and just getting confused with all the moving parts at the register -- coupons, card, ECBs, credit card -- led me to not figure out that I'd gotten the wrong price and no ECBs on at least one item category both times.
And for some reason both times I had to return stuff, a huge line popped up at my CVS. Yet both times the staff who did the return were gracious and patient. Today I got a refund for the wrong stuff I bought, and since I had used tons of coupons and ECBs, they gave me cash for the cash I paid and a CVS card with $12 on it for all the coupons I'd used.
Yeah, I just turned coupons into cash. That's kind of cool, in the sense that I could actually go in there with coupons for stuff I don't even want, return the stuff, and walk out with money on a gift card. However, I wouldn't do it on purpose because:
a) it's still a pain to do 2 transactions, even if i'm making money
and
b) if too many people started abusing the system like that they'd stop doing it. and i'd hate to go in and NOT get the value of my coupons back on a return. It's not like they can pull your old coupons out of a drawer and give them back to you.
Donating items to charity makes more sense than you know...ask any missionary in a foreign country running an orphanage. Things aren't as "free" or available at all in places like Haiti.
Catherine,
Looks like you hit a nerve. I think there are some great points being made on both sides -- so it's interesting to follow the debate.
For my part, I'm on the 'relativity' side of the argument. I'll admit we're very lucky (ok maybe even spoiled). I make six figures...not bragging just mentioning for context. We live in Ohio. We have one teenage daughter and two dogs. And our house payment is only $1300/mo. So, on the surface you'd think we'd have tons of cash socked away in the bank. I don't consider our lifestyle extravagant, but i know our disposable income is greater than normal. i also know we dispose of it more freely.
At the end of the year my wife and I were both shaking our heads at where it all went. We're not *satisfied* with how we spent our cash. We're not *satisfied* with how much debt we have. BUT at the same time -- i know our saving % is greater than the average household. I also know our debt to income is significantly less.
At same time, I look around at some of the cars people are driving and the houses they live in and I think to myself....what am i doing wrong?
So what are my conclusions:
*Relatively speaking, we make a lot of money
*Relatively, we expect we should be able to save more, have more, do more with what we made than we have
*Relativity, we saved more & spent less than others in our tax bracket
The only absolute truth I know when considering our finances?
We're embarrassed by some of our extravagances and wish we'd made different decisions. We plan on working to be more conscientious in our spending.
But isn't that how it should be? Shouldn't we always be looking to improve our situation?
I'm really learning how to settle myself and ask the Lord to show me what I need to do in regards to my manging my emotions and plan my impulses, as well as to help me to deal with time poverty situations, and I've discovered for myself that He will answer me and grant me the courage to say no to the little girl on the inside of me so I can be the the kind of woman that I'm called to be: Just like Him.
We are not living paycheck to paycheck. But barely...
some people retire with no more savings than what we have in the bank.
People living paycheck to paycheck have no emergency fund let alone enough to retire on at any age. They have no liquid assets. The truly struggling have hardly any assets at all. Some are lucky to have roofs over their heads; some are not that lucky.
Yes, it's true that $100k doesn't go as far as it once did, but as you are contributing heavily to your already significant retirement funds and own a house and two cars, I think it is really disingenuous to say that you are "barely" above living paycheck to paycheck. You're doing just fine.
Your comments are so eloquent! I can empathise with both sides of this debate. We were a high-income family who lost a job and decided to pour all our assets into a new business two years ago.
Last time there was a rebate, we had too much income to qualify. This time, I'm reading this website to try to figure out how much we'll get. Making a living in this economy in a new business would be much easier if we weren't taxed to death. I just paid the "personal property tax" for the business -- tax on every single machine and piece of equipment, every year, to the township. Even the old desk I brought from home to save money is taxed!
Then there's the employer's share of payroll tax. Most employees don't even think about this one. And how about the health insurance? Most employees take it for granted, but it costs our business $1200 per family per month.
Last year my only income was a single payroll check the accountant insisted that I take so that we had something to deduct our percentage of our family's health insurance from. So a $5,000 check turns into nothing after deducting premiums ($1200 x 20% x 12 months) and then giving Uncle Sam and everyone else their cut. Turns out it's a lucky thing I was forced to take that one check though, because now I qualify for the tax rebate!
Last year we lost so much money that the state actually sent a home heating credit to our gas company. We didn't ask for it; it just happened. We used it to heat our pool. Now I feel guilty that somewhere there's probably a senior citizen who can't heat his/her home and who could have used that money.
Our oldest child is going to college in the fall. We qualify for financial aid now that we're officially "low income." And the way the economy is, we may actually need it once our college savings run out!
We could probably qualify for free school lunch too, but I draw the line there. We know kids who get dropped at school in expensive sports cars, wearing designer clothing, and get a free lunch.
The system is set up so that people can't afford to work to make more money! If business gets slow and we have to lay off an employee, there is no point in them coming in for a day or two when we need them. That would mess up their unemployment check!
We once hired a person (gave him a chance) even though we knew it probably wouldn't work out. He lasted a week. A year later his unemployment statement arrived. He had been fired from six jobs the previous year, and finally accrued enough pay to qualify for unemployment. Since we gave him a chance, we now have to pay about $400 towards his unemployment!
Having been an employee and an employer, I can see things from both sides. The more our government taxes us, the less it pays to work hard. We're heading towards socialism, and the more tax we pay, the less people like me will want to risk our life savings to provide economic stimulus and employment to others. Then all the businesses can move to China, everything here can go on sale (housing, etc), and the Chinese can come over and buy our country up on the cheap! Then we can all work for them in the end. Maybe they'll give us all free food, housing, healthcare, and the same wage no matter what job we do or how hard we work!
I thought the comment, "Who is premium cable for?" was interesting. The fact that these things are marketed to us, that it looks like everyone has them, is completely irrelevant in the hard, cold world of dollars and cents. I bought a house last year SIMPLY BECAUSE I don't own or maintain a car. (Good employer, corporate vehicle.) There is nothing in the world wrong with owning or wanting to own a new car, but if I did, I couldn't afford the house. End of story.
Marketing is a way to encourage people to choose premium cable over movies in the theater, or shiny new car instead of trip to the Carribean. By implying that everyone, or everyone you know, has A, they encourage you to sacrifice B to get A. It sucks, yes, but we will all always have to choose between the good school district and the beautiful patio, the easy commute and the large acreage, the flat-screen TV and the fast new computer.
I think Catherine's point is that, at $100,000, you still have to make these choices. I wish it weren't so, but she's right. It is. There are a few people with incomes that make choices like this irrelevant (Bill Gates, do you want the small South American country or the moonport?), but $100,000 isn't a magic bullet.
I understand what you're saying. That a six figure salary isn't really considered wealthy anymore. Judging by your posts I can tell you are very frugal, you allready send your children to public schools, drive older cars, and live in a house. The truth is you CAN afford to shop at the GAP and Eddie Bauer its just that your judgement prevents you from it. If you reward yourself just once in a while it may give you that little extra pep in your step, and make it feel worthwhile for living frugal. :)
For those of you who are successfully navigating the choppy waters of 21st century personal finance: kudos. But Catherine's point is a good one. Many of us are working a lot harder, scrimping to a reasonable degree, and still feel as though we have to get by with less than people did even 20 years ago. There are several things wrong with our lifestyle and the cost of living. It's expensive to live today and most peoples' materialistic priorities are somewhat bent. I think everybody gets that.
If you are one of those folks who are patting yourself on the back, I'm happy for you. But there are a lot of people who have done their best and are still just getting along. I meet good people who are overwhelmed everyday. Many of them have done everything they knew how to do to be financially responsible and frugal. But all kinds of stuff happens in life.
Personal examples are never very reliable indicators of the state of the world. There are always exceptions on both sides of any argument. The national trend seems to be that people are working harder and feeling poorer. Why that is is worth discussing. Why you have managed might be a helpful example or a helpful suggestion but really tells us little from a global perspective. It might be a long way from the average experience.
Good for you. But give others a little slack. Walking in other' mocassins...yada yada.
A few people have cited Chicago as an expensive city. I live in Chicago and have found it to be really reasonable. Some big factors are: low state income tax (flat 3%, although if you're a big consumer, sales taxes will sting at 9.25%), low real estate taxes (I pay $1400/year in taxes on a $220,000 condo in the city), and an extensive public transportation system which means you can get by easily without a car.
I live very well in Chicago on $3,000/month, which is about 15% of my gross income.
Just do what I did: trade in the kids for a Mercedes. It's totally worth it. In much of America, you can't have all the luxuries AND the big family at the same time on $100,000 a year. That's just inflation at work. $100,000 in the Brady 70's would be $300,000 or more today, which should be enough for MOST families to live that luxury lifestyle.
My wife and I are raising four boys on just under $40,000 a year. I think it would be VERY interesting to compare our two families' typical monthy expenses - not for the sake of who's better than who - but it might be enlightening to see what we consider needs and what we consider wants.
Sounds like a fun show! I've got to watch it. But what was that one thing that Julius Rock bought in the department store?
Thanks Paul! These are some terrific links that could have otherwise been hard to find!
Excellent ideas, Paul. These are some great resources to help us start "arranging our rich"... Actually, the more I say it, the more I like it - we should all make it our catch phrase :)
So, then the question becomes: how can I arrange my rich today?
p.s. thanks for the link!
Coal is a fossil fuel that contains a lot of bad chemicals use activated charcoal (wood burned in the absence of oxygen) I'm not sure how it works i just know it does
I have come to know a few people well in the grocery store that I use. I get the inside scoop on when items will be on sale/or marked down. I recently bought ham (boneless, already sliced) for $5 a package. I bought 4. Various cheeses were marked down to .99 each. I bulk buy my turkey meat (I make my dogs food). So I know what goes into their food. I've done this for many many years. One of the ladies called me and told me that children's cough medicine was being marked down to $1.00, only because one bottle broke and cough medicine was on the bottoms of the other bottles, and some were normally $8.99 each. Wal-mart will match grocery ads if you bring in the flier. Keep in mind that they won't do percetages or BOGO offers. They also won't mark items down like I've mentioned, let alone call me. Our freezers are full, and my pantry is decent. I buy fresh frozen vegetables from some farmers. And I'll say this, I oouldn't find it any better in taste or cost! They have my business. I buy steaks on sale at an older grocery store, the building is paid for, so they say they can save us even more money.
I enjoyed the article.
I was treated to the yummy green ones today. I'm sure they were on sale...
That is so true, and although your comment goes beyond what I was trying to say, perspective is really my point.
A lot of people who complain of bad luck see normal events as unlucky disasters or people treating them unfairly.
Your boss fired you because you always show up late and leave early? Not bad luck, just normal. Your car got old and died? Not bad luck, just normal.
So far after two weeks of CVS shopping, I have ended up returning what I bought both times because they were not the right items. The combination between having my kids with me and just getting confused with all the moving parts at the register -- coupons, card, ECBs, credit card -- led me to not figure out that I'd gotten the wrong price and no ECBs on at least one item category both times.
And for some reason both times I had to return stuff, a huge line popped up at my CVS. Yet both times the staff who did the return were gracious and patient. Today I got a refund for the wrong stuff I bought, and since I had used tons of coupons and ECBs, they gave me cash for the cash I paid and a CVS card with $12 on it for all the coupons I'd used.
Yeah, I just turned coupons into cash. That's kind of cool, in the sense that I could actually go in there with coupons for stuff I don't even want, return the stuff, and walk out with money on a gift card. However, I wouldn't do it on purpose because:
a) it's still a pain to do 2 transactions, even if i'm making money
and
b) if too many people started abusing the system like that they'd stop doing it. and i'd hate to go in and NOT get the value of my coupons back on a return. It's not like they can pull your old coupons out of a drawer and give them back to you.
Donating items to charity makes more sense than you know...ask any missionary in a foreign country running an orphanage. Things aren't as "free" or available at all in places like Haiti.
Catherine,
Looks like you hit a nerve. I think there are some great points being made on both sides -- so it's interesting to follow the debate.
For my part, I'm on the 'relativity' side of the argument. I'll admit we're very lucky (ok maybe even spoiled). I make six figures...not bragging just mentioning for context. We live in Ohio. We have one teenage daughter and two dogs. And our house payment is only $1300/mo. So, on the surface you'd think we'd have tons of cash socked away in the bank. I don't consider our lifestyle extravagant, but i know our disposable income is greater than normal. i also know we dispose of it more freely.
At the end of the year my wife and I were both shaking our heads at where it all went. We're not *satisfied* with how we spent our cash. We're not *satisfied* with how much debt we have. BUT at the same time -- i know our saving % is greater than the average household. I also know our debt to income is significantly less.
At same time, I look around at some of the cars people are driving and the houses they live in and I think to myself....what am i doing wrong?
So what are my conclusions:
*Relatively speaking, we make a lot of money
*Relatively, we expect we should be able to save more, have more, do more with what we made than we have
*Relativity, we saved more & spent less than others in our tax bracket
The only absolute truth I know when considering our finances?
We're embarrassed by some of our extravagances and wish we'd made different decisions. We plan on working to be more conscientious in our spending.
But isn't that how it should be? Shouldn't we always be looking to improve our situation?
Nice list, it's not the basic, unoriginal stuff. New and fresh ideas, good job!
Although the previous responses are true; these gifts are not a one size fits all.
I'm really learning how to settle myself and ask the Lord to show me what I need to do in regards to my manging my emotions and plan my impulses, as well as to help me to deal with time poverty situations, and I've discovered for myself that He will answer me and grant me the courage to say no to the little girl on the inside of me so I can be the the kind of woman that I'm called to be: Just like Him.
These two statements are contradictory:
We are not living paycheck to paycheck. But barely...
some people retire with no more savings than what we have in the bank.
People living paycheck to paycheck have no emergency fund let alone enough to retire on at any age. They have no liquid assets. The truly struggling have hardly any assets at all. Some are lucky to have roofs over their heads; some are not that lucky.
Yes, it's true that $100k doesn't go as far as it once did, but as you are contributing heavily to your already significant retirement funds and own a house and two cars, I think it is really disingenuous to say that you are "barely" above living paycheck to paycheck. You're doing just fine.
Your comments are so eloquent! I can empathise with both sides of this debate. We were a high-income family who lost a job and decided to pour all our assets into a new business two years ago.
Last time there was a rebate, we had too much income to qualify. This time, I'm reading this website to try to figure out how much we'll get. Making a living in this economy in a new business would be much easier if we weren't taxed to death. I just paid the "personal property tax" for the business -- tax on every single machine and piece of equipment, every year, to the township. Even the old desk I brought from home to save money is taxed!
Then there's the employer's share of payroll tax. Most employees don't even think about this one. And how about the health insurance? Most employees take it for granted, but it costs our business $1200 per family per month.
Last year my only income was a single payroll check the accountant insisted that I take so that we had something to deduct our percentage of our family's health insurance from. So a $5,000 check turns into nothing after deducting premiums ($1200 x 20% x 12 months) and then giving Uncle Sam and everyone else their cut. Turns out it's a lucky thing I was forced to take that one check though, because now I qualify for the tax rebate!
Last year we lost so much money that the state actually sent a home heating credit to our gas company. We didn't ask for it; it just happened. We used it to heat our pool. Now I feel guilty that somewhere there's probably a senior citizen who can't heat his/her home and who could have used that money.
Our oldest child is going to college in the fall. We qualify for financial aid now that we're officially "low income." And the way the economy is, we may actually need it once our college savings run out!
We could probably qualify for free school lunch too, but I draw the line there. We know kids who get dropped at school in expensive sports cars, wearing designer clothing, and get a free lunch.
The system is set up so that people can't afford to work to make more money! If business gets slow and we have to lay off an employee, there is no point in them coming in for a day or two when we need them. That would mess up their unemployment check!
We once hired a person (gave him a chance) even though we knew it probably wouldn't work out. He lasted a week. A year later his unemployment statement arrived. He had been fired from six jobs the previous year, and finally accrued enough pay to qualify for unemployment. Since we gave him a chance, we now have to pay about $400 towards his unemployment!
Having been an employee and an employer, I can see things from both sides. The more our government taxes us, the less it pays to work hard. We're heading towards socialism, and the more tax we pay, the less people like me will want to risk our life savings to provide economic stimulus and employment to others. Then all the businesses can move to China, everything here can go on sale (housing, etc), and the Chinese can come over and buy our country up on the cheap! Then we can all work for them in the end. Maybe they'll give us all free food, housing, healthcare, and the same wage no matter what job we do or how hard we work!
I thought the comment, "Who is premium cable for?" was interesting. The fact that these things are marketed to us, that it looks like everyone has them, is completely irrelevant in the hard, cold world of dollars and cents. I bought a house last year SIMPLY BECAUSE I don't own or maintain a car. (Good employer, corporate vehicle.) There is nothing in the world wrong with owning or wanting to own a new car, but if I did, I couldn't afford the house. End of story.
Marketing is a way to encourage people to choose premium cable over movies in the theater, or shiny new car instead of trip to the Carribean. By implying that everyone, or everyone you know, has A, they encourage you to sacrifice B to get A. It sucks, yes, but we will all always have to choose between the good school district and the beautiful patio, the easy commute and the large acreage, the flat-screen TV and the fast new computer.
I think Catherine's point is that, at $100,000, you still have to make these choices. I wish it weren't so, but she's right. It is. There are a few people with incomes that make choices like this irrelevant (Bill Gates, do you want the small South American country or the moonport?), but $100,000 isn't a magic bullet.
...for the name drop! I am glad you are enjoying Sandy's assistance as much as I am!
If you see multiple comments from me...my bad. My computer was not very responsive.
I apologize.
I understand what you're saying. That a six figure salary isn't really considered wealthy anymore. Judging by your posts I can tell you are very frugal, you allready send your children to public schools, drive older cars, and live in a house. The truth is you CAN afford to shop at the GAP and Eddie Bauer its just that your judgement prevents you from it. If you reward yourself just once in a while it may give you that little extra pep in your step, and make it feel worthwhile for living frugal. :)
For those of you who are successfully navigating the choppy waters of 21st century personal finance: kudos. But Catherine's point is a good one. Many of us are working a lot harder, scrimping to a reasonable degree, and still feel as though we have to get by with less than people did even 20 years ago. There are several things wrong with our lifestyle and the cost of living. It's expensive to live today and most peoples' materialistic priorities are somewhat bent. I think everybody gets that.
If you are one of those folks who are patting yourself on the back, I'm happy for you. But there are a lot of people who have done their best and are still just getting along. I meet good people who are overwhelmed everyday. Many of them have done everything they knew how to do to be financially responsible and frugal. But all kinds of stuff happens in life.
Personal examples are never very reliable indicators of the state of the world. There are always exceptions on both sides of any argument. The national trend seems to be that people are working harder and feeling poorer. Why that is is worth discussing. Why you have managed might be a helpful example or a helpful suggestion but really tells us little from a global perspective. It might be a long way from the average experience.
Good for you. But give others a little slack. Walking in other' mocassins...yada yada.
No. Those who are claimed as dependents will not receive a check according to the IRS publication.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=177937,00.html
You will not receive a rebate for a dependent over the age of 17 years. If you claim the college student, they will not receive the rebate.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=177937,00.html
The IRS says no.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=177937,00.html
A few people have cited Chicago as an expensive city. I live in Chicago and have found it to be really reasonable. Some big factors are: low state income tax (flat 3%, although if you're a big consumer, sales taxes will sting at 9.25%), low real estate taxes (I pay $1400/year in taxes on a $220,000 condo in the city), and an extensive public transportation system which means you can get by easily without a car.
I live very well in Chicago on $3,000/month, which is about 15% of my gross income.
Just do what I did: trade in the kids for a Mercedes. It's totally worth it. In much of America, you can't have all the luxuries AND the big family at the same time on $100,000 a year. That's just inflation at work. $100,000 in the Brady 70's would be $300,000 or more today, which should be enough for MOST families to live that luxury lifestyle.
My wife and I are raising four boys on just under $40,000 a year. I think it would be VERY interesting to compare our two families' typical monthy expenses - not for the sake of who's better than who - but it might be enlightening to see what we consider needs and what we consider wants.