When you're already charging $2000 for the job, doesn't that cover your 8 hours plus another 4 hours that you spend in front of photoshop? Compare that to a contractor who has to pay for material, dedicated vans and trucks, and still get the same 2 grand for the week.
And don't give me that "i spent 10 grand on my equipment" because you'd make that up in a month of doing weddings and chances are you don't spend 10 grand every year so most of your equipment has already been paid for.
So why should you get paid double? what makes you special? If you were getting 10 bucks an hour and doing this i'd get why you'd be mad, but you don't. and why not charge the 25 cents a copy that it costs you? why charge 5 bucks a picture that's already been paid for? I know why, GREED.
If you want to be greedy, just charge more and give up the prints. It's someone else's life, not your art. If you want art, go take a picture of a flower, a sunset or a nude girl.
Many hotels offer a free or very cheap breakfast. Stoke up and you can get by on much less the rest of the day. Sometimes you can discretely make some sandwiches or wraps of breakfast foods and stash it for lunch. Get some fresh whole fruit, too.
Street food is too often passed over by timid tourists. If it is prepared fresh and served hot there is little chance that it will make you sick.
If you want a bit of added safety you can chew a couple Pepto-Bismol tablets before. The medicine in them has a mild antibiotic effect and many people swear they can eat anything and not get sick.
Potable water can be an issue in many places. Bring along a Steri-Pen and you can drink any clear water on the planet safely. It is very quick and after a few weeks it will pay for itself in savings on bottled water.
If you still insist to be a little more with technology, using a mobile app can be practical alternatives. I tried, but It doesn't work for me though, as I just mostly use the mobile notepad or sms editor to do the shopping list.
"As for droughts and repercussions on restaurants, I'm not sure what to think of reverting to disposable. I guess it's out of necessity. As a consumer, I would take a stand by not eating out at all. Yes - the ultimate loser in this scenario is the restaurant and its employees (because eventually it would have to shut down if business slowed), but....does anybody have any ideas of how to get around this?"
Well, I mentioned a solution in #9 -- I live in the same state as Bryce but my area hasn't been hit as hard with the drought (thanks to the mighty Yadkin River). The restaurant I was referring to was in Blowing Rock in the mountains. Apparently they did have patrons walk out b/c of the restaurant's use of disposable plates, cups, etc. due to the drought and water restrictions. Here's a link to the article about green practices and compostable "paper" goods.
I am a coffee hound, and I think it tastes so much better in MY OWN mug! I always have my travel mug in the car, and get a refill rather than a new cup, it cheaper AND I'm helping the environment! Plus, most of the travel mugs hold a LOT more than the standard medium coffee!
What about the additional cost and waist of water and electricity if a coffee shop would have to clean all of those cups?
I would think starbucks recycles all of the paper cups thrown away.
I love the way you refer to photographers as greedy because they have to charge for the work they produce. The nerve of those photographers!! Actually trying to make a living to feed and clothe their families.
I mean really...why can't I just pay for their time the day of the session and then have them handover the results of that time!
So what if they have to spend 2-4 hours after the session color-correcting every image and converting it to a format that consumer computers can read!
So what if they have thousands invested in pro-equipment and a $500 studio payment every month. Not my problem.
I mean, when my boss asks me to work an extra 8 hours a week with no pay, I gladly volunteer! Oh and when my boss tells me that my college degree(s) and past experience dont mean anything to him and he isn't willing to pay me what I'm worth...well, I just figure he's right. I may not be able to pay my bills on what he is willing to pay me, but if I asked to be paid for the overtime...well, then I would be greedy.
I will NOT hire a photographer who won't give me the original files. Why? because I am paying them for their time, not for them to hold an image of me randsom. Who knows what's going to happen to him 5 years, or 10 years from now. people have fires, floods, theft, etc and owe it to themselves, their kids, and future grand kids to keep original digital files. Especially since digital files if kept up will be exactly teh same 200 years from now that they do now.
What other business do you know that could get away with charging for their time and still telling you what you can do with your own image? I think it goes back to the old days where photography was a mysterious and untouchable profession and the cameras the consumers had access to were either very expensive or not good at all. Those days are over. Just look at Flickr.com and see how many amatuers take pictures using prosumer equipment that rivals that of the pros...if not better.
why would someone pay to have extra pictures of aunt sally and uncle wally at the wedding when chances are, 80% of the party brought their own cameras? Taking the pictures of the bride and groom may require alot of talent, but that's where the scale tips towards the consumer's favor.
So instead of being greedy and wanting to sell a bunch of overpriced prints, charge a little more for the originals and cover your cost of doing business and sleep easy. Chances are if you're honest, the couple will come to you for the professional prints.
There's this GREAT coffee and sandwich / sweet shop in Tucson called Beyond Bread. They served great fair trade coffee from Peru in real cups! Free refills, too. Man, I miss that place.
That's so funny because . . . I want one TOOOOOO!!!!!!! Man, I love those things. Middle East food in general rocks my world, and as much as I like the fancy stuff, shwarma beats a stateside fair hot dog in my book any day. The flavor combination is to die for, especially when they slather it in that garlic sauce. Man, when's the first plane to the region?
Where's the apology? Obviously the writer did wrong... her article was pulled because of the outrage... or the legal issues the owner of this blog might face because of her encouragement of illegal practices... but where's the author's apology? There should be one. Really!
I also agree that eating out of the grocery store or 'packing' a meal is a great way to save some money when traveling.
However, I would suggest packing the dinner instead. Most restaurants have a cheap lunch option or set meal. It is a great way to eat at a fancy place for half the price.
Also, street food always seems to be bountiful (or maybe it just looks more appealing to me) during the lunch hours.
Sorry, but no matter how I do the math, I'm still the loser. (Hey, kind of like the candidates for the Republican primary!)
I don't use nearly enough minutes to justify my 300min/month plan with T-Mobe (about 80 in my highest month) but I'm locked in for another 3 years. Plus, if I switched to prepaid, I'd have to get a new phone since my Motorola Pebl doesn't work with any of the prepaids, not even T-Mobe's. And, yeah, I can't understand why ALL of the prepaid phones are just...so...ugly. I know, it should not be a big deal, but I guess it is.
And currently, I'm getting charged for spam text messages (seriously, they're all about "ST0CK MRKT TIPZ", "canaaaadian meds cheapcheapcheap" and "B1GG3R P3N15!") and they're not even from real phone numbers so it's not like I can call them back and yell at them or report them or something. They're all from "004" and "2033" and stuff. It sucks!
Ironically, it turns out the pricing model you agreed to with your wedding photographer saved you some money. So your photog, who you didn't care for, is getting what he/she deserved: none of your money for prints you don't want.
Everybody got what they deserved: You didn't get the photographer you wanted because you did not research him well enough by say, interviewing past customers or thoroughly reviewing work he produced for other clients. Your photographer didn't make any money off of print sales because you didn't like them.
HOWEVER, if you would have entered into a service-centric contract where you paid the photographer a flat fee to shoot your wedding and get all the originals (probably 3-4 times as much as what you paid), you would have spent more up front and ended up with a bunch of negatives of prints you don't like. Instead you minimized your losses and learned a valuable lesson: research your photographer before you hire them. Any photographer that's worth what they charge will be happy to prove it to you with copious examples of their work.
Oh, and by the way, photographers are hired every day to produce images the client owns, copyright free -- it's all in what you negotiate. Why agree to terms you don't like? Just walk away. Photography is an incredibly competitive profession, and I can assure all of you that you're more likely to hire a photographer for less than they are worth instead of the other way around because of the number of people trying to make it in this business...
Thank you for all the comments, everybody! It's a seemingly small thing, but will make an unbelievable impact on the environment.
As for droughts and repercussions on restaurants, I'm not sure what to think of reverting to disposable. I guess it's out of necessity. As a consumer, I would take a stand by not eating out at all. Yes - the ultimate loser in this scenario is the restaurant and its employees (because eventually it would have to shut down if business slowed), but....does anybody have any ideas of how to get around this?
And Dwight, I agree: let's attack the big problems (like gasoline consumption) to make the big headway. But my question to you is (and this is in no way an attack): you burn two gallons of gasoline a day. How will you stop doing that? (It is possible, but will you or can you)? And if you can't, then although a little harmless coffee cup may seem a pittance in comparison, is it reason enough to throw your (not yours - anybody's) hands up in the air and consume wantonly because you don't think it will make a big enough difference?
(again - this isn't personal, as you said you avoid disposable cups out of principal. But I think there are some people out there who may feel that the small things are too insignificant to address).
Remember the butterfly effect.....even a little butterfly flapping its wings can change climate patterns around the world. So can we with coffee cups.
Hi -- I used to work as a barista, and if you say you're staying, and still get a to-go cup, don't walk out! Just ask for a mug. If you're giving tons of cups, things start to get automatic, so it can be helpful to just speak up. :)
Bringing your own mug is fine too -- I can't see that anyone would have a problem with it.
The only thing I didn't like was when people brought in grody mugs: rinsing out a mug is one thing, but if soap was needed, then it really should have been done at home.
Also, if you have to get a to-go cup, you can get the reusable jackets (I think they're called coffee cozys, and you can find them on Etsy.com.) :)
Great point about being the one to pay with credit cards at restaurants and get cash from fellow diners! I tend to do the same, although I'm increasingly finding I'm in similar company with plastic addictions, and more often we're splitting bills on plastic.
I will say, once or twice I've been burnt by this strategy with large groups of friends....I end up paying the entire bill, but somehow I don't always get all the cash back from other diners that I should. Sometimes the math is off on their part, or they leave early and forget to pay, or they're just cheap! (smiles)
Less consumption means that there will be less demand for products and thus the prices will go down. So even if you earn less and make less from investing, you should be okay. It's all relative.
I've worked for a newspaper for a number of years and guess what, when I write something for the newspaper or take a photo of something for the paper, regardless of if I used my computer to type it on or my camera to take the picture, the newspaper owns the work I created - because they paid me to create that work.
Yet when I hire a photographer for my wedding - paying her to create a work of me and my bride - they insist that they own the work and any and all prints have to come from them.
Turns out - we weren't super impressed with the work the did.
And they charged out the wazoo to get prints of pictures we didn't really like in the first place - and which we didn't get proofs until 3 months after our wedding.
So while there were a few we ordered we decided to do the next best thing and re-create our wedding day.
I went out and rented the exact same tux i had on our wedding day, my wife put on her wedding dress and we took a friend with us and our Nikon SLR (we bought it as a wedding gift to both of us) and created the pictures we wanted. http://tinyurl.com/2mtrhz
We printed off all the copies we wanted and have them all over our house - and everyone loves them and has no idea (until we tell them) they were taken 3 months after our wedding.
So the moral of the story - just take the pics yourself or get a friend to take them for you - you'll probably be just as happy in the end.
"And of course, there was the anxiety about getting busted. Last year, we went through the same routine, and we were confronted by a Walgreen staff member who told us they woudln't reproduce the prints because they were obviously professionally done. This year, to our relief, no one called us on our transgression."
I'd say just don't hire a photographer who won't sell you the negatives. It's something important to be aware of to begin with...something that not enough people have learned to ask about. And if they won't quote you a price, find one who will. Or even find one who includes the negatives as part of their package. That way you don't have to worry about ethical issues and you reward photographers who provide good customer service.
We got our wedding negatives, so we can do what we want with them. Actually, they're at my in-laws house, but we can get them from my in-laws and do what we want.
I'm no scientist, I didn't have everything I needed at the office to try it out. But I have removed that video. The first does work, I tried it myself.
I believe it's already quite clear that you did indeed steal from your photographer. You broke the law plain and simple.
Perhaps next time, instead of maybe playing by the photographer's rules, you should just take the photos yourself. You obviously do not place any kind of value on this profession or the people who make a living by it. Or rather, you do...but you don't want to pay for it as others have already stated.
If you or your friends could take the same amazing, high-quality photos that the professional photographer took you would not have a need for her services. But she was recording a milestone event for you...one you obviously wanted in the hands of a professional. Not one you wanted left to chance with friends and family members and their point & shoot cameras.
I am so incredibly frustrated by some of the opinions expressed in not only the blog post but the following comments that I don't even know how to respond. Thankfully others have been able to clearly articulate my feelings on the matter.
When you're already charging $2000 for the job, doesn't that cover your 8 hours plus another 4 hours that you spend in front of photoshop? Compare that to a contractor who has to pay for material, dedicated vans and trucks, and still get the same 2 grand for the week.
And don't give me that "i spent 10 grand on my equipment" because you'd make that up in a month of doing weddings and chances are you don't spend 10 grand every year so most of your equipment has already been paid for.
So why should you get paid double? what makes you special? If you were getting 10 bucks an hour and doing this i'd get why you'd be mad, but you don't. and why not charge the 25 cents a copy that it costs you? why charge 5 bucks a picture that's already been paid for? I know why, GREED.
If you want to be greedy, just charge more and give up the prints. It's someone else's life, not your art. If you want art, go take a picture of a flower, a sunset or a nude girl.
Many hotels offer a free or very cheap breakfast. Stoke up and you can get by on much less the rest of the day. Sometimes you can discretely make some sandwiches or wraps of breakfast foods and stash it for lunch. Get some fresh whole fruit, too.
Street food is too often passed over by timid tourists. If it is prepared fresh and served hot there is little chance that it will make you sick.
If you want a bit of added safety you can chew a couple Pepto-Bismol tablets before. The medicine in them has a mild antibiotic effect and many people swear they can eat anything and not get sick.
Potable water can be an issue in many places. Bring along a Steri-Pen and you can drink any clear water on the planet safely. It is very quick and after a few weeks it will pay for itself in savings on bottled water.
I just need to share one more on this.
If you still insist to be a little more with technology, using a mobile app can be practical alternatives. I tried, but It doesn't work for me though, as I just mostly use the mobile notepad or sms editor to do the shopping list.
"As for droughts and repercussions on restaurants, I'm not sure what to think of reverting to disposable. I guess it's out of necessity. As a consumer, I would take a stand by not eating out at all. Yes - the ultimate loser in this scenario is the restaurant and its employees (because eventually it would have to shut down if business slowed), but....does anybody have any ideas of how to get around this?"
Well, I mentioned a solution in #9 -- I live in the same state as Bryce but my area hasn't been hit as hard with the drought (thanks to the mighty Yadkin River). The restaurant I was referring to was in Blowing Rock in the mountains. Apparently they did have patrons walk out b/c of the restaurant's use of disposable plates, cups, etc. due to the drought and water restrictions. Here's a link to the article about green practices and compostable "paper" goods.
Link doesn't seem to work anymore. That's too bad. I was really hooping to get some free cases.
I am a coffee hound, and I think it tastes so much better in MY OWN mug! I always have my travel mug in the car, and get a refill rather than a new cup, it cheaper AND I'm helping the environment! Plus, most of the travel mugs hold a LOT more than the standard medium coffee!
What about the additional cost and waist of water and electricity if a coffee shop would have to clean all of those cups?
I would think starbucks recycles all of the paper cups thrown away.
I love the way you refer to photographers as greedy because they have to charge for the work they produce. The nerve of those photographers!! Actually trying to make a living to feed and clothe their families.
I mean really...why can't I just pay for their time the day of the session and then have them handover the results of that time!
So what if they have to spend 2-4 hours after the session color-correcting every image and converting it to a format that consumer computers can read!
So what if they have thousands invested in pro-equipment and a $500 studio payment every month. Not my problem.
I mean, when my boss asks me to work an extra 8 hours a week with no pay, I gladly volunteer! Oh and when my boss tells me that my college degree(s) and past experience dont mean anything to him and he isn't willing to pay me what I'm worth...well, I just figure he's right. I may not be able to pay my bills on what he is willing to pay me, but if I asked to be paid for the overtime...well, then I would be greedy.
I will NOT hire a photographer who won't give me the original files. Why? because I am paying them for their time, not for them to hold an image of me randsom. Who knows what's going to happen to him 5 years, or 10 years from now. people have fires, floods, theft, etc and owe it to themselves, their kids, and future grand kids to keep original digital files. Especially since digital files if kept up will be exactly teh same 200 years from now that they do now.
What other business do you know that could get away with charging for their time and still telling you what you can do with your own image? I think it goes back to the old days where photography was a mysterious and untouchable profession and the cameras the consumers had access to were either very expensive or not good at all. Those days are over. Just look at Flickr.com and see how many amatuers take pictures using prosumer equipment that rivals that of the pros...if not better.
why would someone pay to have extra pictures of aunt sally and uncle wally at the wedding when chances are, 80% of the party brought their own cameras? Taking the pictures of the bride and groom may require alot of talent, but that's where the scale tips towards the consumer's favor.
So instead of being greedy and wanting to sell a bunch of overpriced prints, charge a little more for the originals and cover your cost of doing business and sleep easy. Chances are if you're honest, the couple will come to you for the professional prints.
There's this GREAT coffee and sandwich / sweet shop in Tucson called Beyond Bread. They served great fair trade coffee from Peru in real cups! Free refills, too. Man, I miss that place.
And Julie . . . thanks for the link, girl!
Nora . . . a thoughtful post as usual. Good job.
That's so funny because . . . I want one TOOOOOO!!!!!!! Man, I love those things. Middle East food in general rocks my world, and as much as I like the fancy stuff, shwarma beats a stateside fair hot dog in my book any day. The flavor combination is to die for, especially when they slather it in that garlic sauce. Man, when's the first plane to the region?
Where's the apology? Obviously the writer did wrong... her article was pulled because of the outrage... or the legal issues the owner of this blog might face because of her encouragement of illegal practices... but where's the author's apology? There should be one. Really!
I also agree that eating out of the grocery store or 'packing' a meal is a great way to save some money when traveling.
However, I would suggest packing the dinner instead. Most restaurants have a cheap lunch option or set meal. It is a great way to eat at a fancy place for half the price.
Also, street food always seems to be bountiful (or maybe it just looks more appealing to me) during the lunch hours.
Sorry, but no matter how I do the math, I'm still the loser. (Hey, kind of like the candidates for the Republican primary!)
I don't use nearly enough minutes to justify my 300min/month plan with T-Mobe (about 80 in my highest month) but I'm locked in for another 3 years. Plus, if I switched to prepaid, I'd have to get a new phone since my Motorola Pebl doesn't work with any of the prepaids, not even T-Mobe's. And, yeah, I can't understand why ALL of the prepaid phones are just...so...ugly. I know, it should not be a big deal, but I guess it is.
And currently, I'm getting charged for spam text messages (seriously, they're all about "ST0CK MRKT TIPZ", "canaaaadian meds cheapcheapcheap" and "B1GG3R P3N15!") and they're not even from real phone numbers so it's not like I can call them back and yell at them or report them or something. They're all from "004" and "2033" and stuff. It sucks!
Jonathan,
Ironically, it turns out the pricing model you agreed to with your wedding photographer saved you some money. So your photog, who you didn't care for, is getting what he/she deserved: none of your money for prints you don't want.
Everybody got what they deserved: You didn't get the photographer you wanted because you did not research him well enough by say, interviewing past customers or thoroughly reviewing work he produced for other clients. Your photographer didn't make any money off of print sales because you didn't like them.
HOWEVER, if you would have entered into a service-centric contract where you paid the photographer a flat fee to shoot your wedding and get all the originals (probably 3-4 times as much as what you paid), you would have spent more up front and ended up with a bunch of negatives of prints you don't like. Instead you minimized your losses and learned a valuable lesson: research your photographer before you hire them. Any photographer that's worth what they charge will be happy to prove it to you with copious examples of their work.
Oh, and by the way, photographers are hired every day to produce images the client owns, copyright free -- it's all in what you negotiate. Why agree to terms you don't like? Just walk away. Photography is an incredibly competitive profession, and I can assure all of you that you're more likely to hire a photographer for less than they are worth instead of the other way around because of the number of people trying to make it in this business...
Thank you for all the comments, everybody! It's a seemingly small thing, but will make an unbelievable impact on the environment.
As for droughts and repercussions on restaurants, I'm not sure what to think of reverting to disposable. I guess it's out of necessity. As a consumer, I would take a stand by not eating out at all. Yes - the ultimate loser in this scenario is the restaurant and its employees (because eventually it would have to shut down if business slowed), but....does anybody have any ideas of how to get around this?
And Dwight, I agree: let's attack the big problems (like gasoline consumption) to make the big headway. But my question to you is (and this is in no way an attack): you burn two gallons of gasoline a day. How will you stop doing that? (It is possible, but will you or can you)? And if you can't, then although a little harmless coffee cup may seem a pittance in comparison, is it reason enough to throw your (not yours - anybody's) hands up in the air and consume wantonly because you don't think it will make a big enough difference?
(again - this isn't personal, as you said you avoid disposable cups out of principal. But I think there are some people out there who may feel that the small things are too insignificant to address).
Remember the butterfly effect.....even a little butterfly flapping its wings can change climate patterns around the world. So can we with coffee cups.
Hi -- I used to work as a barista, and if you say you're staying, and still get a to-go cup, don't walk out! Just ask for a mug. If you're giving tons of cups, things start to get automatic, so it can be helpful to just speak up. :)
Bringing your own mug is fine too -- I can't see that anyone would have a problem with it.
The only thing I didn't like was when people brought in grody mugs: rinsing out a mug is one thing, but if soap was needed, then it really should have been done at home.
Also, if you have to get a to-go cup, you can get the reusable jackets (I think they're called coffee cozys, and you can find them on Etsy.com.) :)
Great point about being the one to pay with credit cards at restaurants and get cash from fellow diners! I tend to do the same, although I'm increasingly finding I'm in similar company with plastic addictions, and more often we're splitting bills on plastic.
I will say, once or twice I've been burnt by this strategy with large groups of friends....I end up paying the entire bill, but somehow I don't always get all the cash back from other diners that I should. Sometimes the math is off on their part, or they leave early and forget to pay, or they're just cheap! (smiles)
Less consumption means that there will be less demand for products and thus the prices will go down. So even if you earn less and make less from investing, you should be okay. It's all relative.
I've worked for a newspaper for a number of years and guess what, when I write something for the newspaper or take a photo of something for the paper, regardless of if I used my computer to type it on or my camera to take the picture, the newspaper owns the work I created - because they paid me to create that work.
Yet when I hire a photographer for my wedding - paying her to create a work of me and my bride - they insist that they own the work and any and all prints have to come from them.
Turns out - we weren't super impressed with the work the did.
And they charged out the wazoo to get prints of pictures we didn't really like in the first place - and which we didn't get proofs until 3 months after our wedding.
So while there were a few we ordered we decided to do the next best thing and re-create our wedding day.
I went out and rented the exact same tux i had on our wedding day, my wife put on her wedding dress and we took a friend with us and our Nikon SLR (we bought it as a wedding gift to both of us) and created the pictures we wanted. http://tinyurl.com/2mtrhz
We printed off all the copies we wanted and have them all over our house - and everyone loves them and has no idea (until we tell them) they were taken 3 months after our wedding.
So the moral of the story - just take the pics yourself or get a friend to take them for you - you'll probably be just as happy in the end.
"And of course, there was the anxiety about getting busted. Last year, we went through the same routine, and we were confronted by a Walgreen staff member who told us they woudln't reproduce the prints because they were obviously professionally done. This year, to our relief, no one called us on our transgression."
Truly sad........
I'd say just don't hire a photographer who won't sell you the negatives. It's something important to be aware of to begin with...something that not enough people have learned to ask about. And if they won't quote you a price, find one who will. Or even find one who includes the negatives as part of their package. That way you don't have to worry about ethical issues and you reward photographers who provide good customer service.
We got our wedding negatives, so we can do what we want with them. Actually, they're at my in-laws house, but we can get them from my in-laws and do what we want.
Thanks, Mom!
I'm no scientist, I didn't have everything I needed at the office to try it out. But I have removed that video. The first does work, I tried it myself.
"living large on a small budget"
I believe that tagline says it all.
I believe it's already quite clear that you did indeed steal from your photographer. You broke the law plain and simple.
Perhaps next time, instead of maybe playing by the photographer's rules, you should just take the photos yourself. You obviously do not place any kind of value on this profession or the people who make a living by it. Or rather, you do...but you don't want to pay for it as others have already stated.
If you or your friends could take the same amazing, high-quality photos that the professional photographer took you would not have a need for her services. But she was recording a milestone event for you...one you obviously wanted in the hands of a professional. Not one you wanted left to chance with friends and family members and their point & shoot cameras.
I am so incredibly frustrated by some of the opinions expressed in not only the blog post but the following comments that I don't even know how to respond. Thankfully others have been able to clearly articulate my feelings on the matter.
Shame on you.