Sometimes, this kind of thinking is useful self-motivation to earn more money. That's not a bad thing if you come from a rough neighborhood. A lot of people coming from distressed situations have similar ideas, except they're different. Consider... "I'm not the kind of person who..."
* sells illegal drugs for money.
* performs sex acts for money.
* drops out of school.
* buys stolen goods.
* believes the sarcastic teachers at school.
* gets high to deal with life.
Thinking like that can save your life.
With the economic downturn, 'hoods will go to gangs and police are looking the other way. People are resisting, but there's going to be more poverty, more organized crime seeing opportunities to sell the fantasy of intoxication and consumer goods to downwardly mobile middle class, and people getting caught up in negative self-destruction.
Thanks for nothing Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan.
Anyone have any recommendations for HDHP in massachusetts? I'm trying to find one and it's so hard to compare them all. I consider myself pretty informed about this stuff so if I'm having a hard time picking a good plan I can't imagine those who don't know how parts of this work.
My wife and I are very healthy but going to have a child in the next year. I can't figure out what plans would cover that the best.
I'm a solo business owner and choose not to have dental insurance (which is hard to find and expensive) and instead pay cash for my son and I. If anyone has ideas of what WOULD help in my situation, to save money, I'd love to hear it.
A big thank you to the dental employees and dentists who replied on this topic! Saving money requires you to be informed, something that is hard to become in regards to dental pricing. I really appreciate the comments!
Yeah, I'm certainly not suggesting that people be smug about their wealth. I just want to urge people not to confuse their preferences with their identity, as that sort of confusion can lead people to make very bad choices when they're under stress.
I've written before that there's a big difference between living frugally and living in poverty--even if the standard of living is about the same: See, for example, Voluntary simplicty versus poverty.
I manage a medium-sized dental office that is doing extremely well. We are currently producing and collecting 20% more than last year, and last year was the best year we'd ever had. Money is still tight, and we have to be very careful or we'll go under like many other dentists in our area. Our doctors are above-the-norm talented, extraordinarily conscientious, and scrupulously honest, (and 2 out of the 3 are very frugal guys). Our fees are not the cheapest or the highest in our area- we are about 70th percentile. A "cleaning" in our office is $84. BUT, our registered dental hygienists -all top-graduates with at least 5 years experience- spend no less than one hour "cleaning" the teeth and educating the patient. Each hygienist makes between $40-45 per hour. Not including the THOUSANDS of dollars we spend on rent, the hundreds of thousands on our equipment, the supplies we buy - and by the way, that toothpaste, floss, the toothbrushes, etc that you take home? We PAY for those - throw in repairs and maintenance on highly sensitive equipment (usually billable at $180/hour), payroll taxes, benefits for our employees, business insurance, malpractice insurance, licensing with authorities, continuing education costs, administrative costs, etc (I could go on, but it even makes ME want to gouge my eyes out); and the simple truth is that "cleanings" are a loss-leader. We make little to nothing on "cleanings" after we cover costs.
The dentist that replied earlier is correct- dental discount plans are nothing more than a gimmick to get you to go to an office you may not have otherwise chosen. You are paying money to a 3rd party who is selling the right to access a PPO network or discount doctor; they have no relationship with the doctor, and the doctor receives nothing from them other than their name listed in a book or on a website. Although it is possible that you can find a reputable doctor who accepts a legitimate PPO insurance plan, and is forced onto the list as part of his contract, most likely what you will find are either miserable chain clinics, new doctors, or doctors who are desperate for patients- any patients. 5 years ago, I worked for an unscrupulous dentist who joined all of the discount plan networks, and then spent HOURS planning ways to manipulate the plans so that when patients came in as members of any plan, they would end up paying just as much- if not more than- a regular uninsured cash patient. She made me charge patients for things like "sterilization" and "oral hygiene instructions" and a myriad of other nonsense that is a given in a normal office under normal fees. I didnt last there very long- I couldn't stomach the tactics and dishonesty. She also had someone unlicensed doing those "cleanings" and would charge for porcelain-fused-to-gold crowns, but give people porcelain-fused-to-base metal crowns, etc. I quit, and never looked back.
I am VERY frugal. But you get what you pay for.
Don't pay for third-party discount plans.... save yourself the trouble, and establish a stable relationship with a dentist that you really like, tell him you like him and his staff, and explain you'd rather pay his usual/customary cash rates minus a 10% cash discount in exchange for paying at the time of service. If he's reasonable, he'll give the discount no problem- it's less than the hit he takes on PPO patients. And if you're nice and tell him you enjoy him and his staff, he'll be flattered, and you'll be treated well - because trust me, our favorite patients are the polite cash patients with an appreciation and an understanding of value-for-value, rather than the PPO people who for the most part treat us like we're there to give them "what's free".
I'm just wondering why dental care is so expensive. Aside from the one time cost of equipment, and other facilities costs, what makes it so much more expensive than a typical primary care health physician?
From what I understand, being a dentist is more risky than a Family doctor and this needs to be taken into account.
I know someone who had a cleaning done for under $30, cash, with no other costs associated. That's really good considering what most people pay for dental premiums and only get one or two cleanings a year.
I have never really been one to drive around aimlessly. I have always bundled my errands together, and walked when possible. We are really noticing the savings in our travel though. We have a travel trailer (RV) and it cost us nearly $500 to tow it 500 miles earlier this summer and we just picked it up to bring it home and it cost us half that this time! We are using the savings for an extra weekend at our next destination...and putting the rest under our mattress...ha ha. We are not driving more, just enjoying where we go for longer.
I have been practicing for 20+ years. I have yet to see a plan that saves money on quality dental care. Typically, the plan is an advertising gimmick used to get you into an office that you might not have chosen otherwise.
An extensive resource on business and personal development. A lot of thougths, views and articles on the recent happenings and their impact on economy and your live
Id love to have a root cellar. We used to keep potatoes under the house but I havent done that in years. I do raise a big garden and can and freeze the food. In fact I just wrote about preparing for emergencies today on my own blog.
The idea of a root cellar intrigues me. Wonder if I could talk my husband into it!
Have you read "Joy in the Morning"? That is actually my favorite, although lessl-well-known book, by Betty Smith. Also about scraping by, this time as a young college couple, and I think of it often as I'm budgeting my groceries.
So, what are you doing next year. My family is also on a "discount dental" program - it is not enough. I would love to buy a secondary dental but do not even know where to start looking.
I think I agree with you, but I am not quite sure. If you are "being honest" about being rich enough not to take the bus, do you need to "be honest" about spending any money that elevates you beyond a subsistence lifestyle? Should we tell ourselves things like: I'm rich enough that I don't have to sleep outdoors in nice weather, I'm rich enough that I don't have to eat whatever food is available when it is available because I don't know when I will have the chance to eat again.
It is absolutely true that even the less well off in modern America are among the wealthiest people ever to walk the face of the world. It is good to remind ourselves of this and keep this in perspective. However, I think that one can also get carried away and fall into a "frugal-er than thou" attiditude if one takes this too far.
Understood that you can't cover everyone's situation...but what do we *do*? I don't see any actual actions as advice here, just theory. For example, in the inequality section...how can it be fixed?
I have done onling banking with Capital One for a few months and was having overdraft charges so I decided to watch every day and just got hit again. The balance they show is not the correct balance. I had a deposit come in and they took away all the checks coming in before they input the deposit. This is how they are making money.
I even had over 3000.00 in another account and they did not transfer any monies. They charged me 300.00 in NF charges. I just withdrew all my money from this bank.
I think sensibilities ARE changing in this regard. I recently was given a car and have begun driving to work although it’s totally possible to take the train. I am often embarrassed by this non-frugal/ecological choice when telling people I know. At least I’m honest with myself in knowing that I’m making the choice because I CAN. I have the luxury to indulge my motion-sickness on public transport. If I didn’t have any other way (which I didn’t for several years), I’d deal. But after becoming debt free and getting a used car as a gift, it’s my treat to myself.
Thanks for the article. I think NYC makes a good point, too. I wonder if anybody still goes to the library? If they haven't considered it in a while, I'm sure they are now.
I too have been unemployed since January. Yup, I'm one of those finacial services people. However, it dawned on me that not everyone has access to all the tools that are needed in the search for employment. So I started a blog. Here's the link: http://uaortheunemployedanonymous.blogspot.com/. I created it as a place for people to go to in order to not only get tips on staying positive and finding places for job leads, but also to not feel quite so alone. During these times when we're all sitting in front of our computers, though we might need a little something to get through the day.
Hi,
I totally know how everyone who hasn't missed a mortgage payment feels! I have been working very hard and constantly paying my mortgage. I don't think it is fair to reward those who stopped paying and forget about those of us who kept our responsibilities. I also agree that though some people actually lost their jobs, there are many who just decided to stop paying because everyone else did, or because they felt their profit was out the door; or even worse, because they felt that they will get a reward for not paying.
The bottom line is: If they plan to reward homeowners either by lowering their remaining mortgage or by coming up with a low interest rate, they need to do this for EVERYONE....not just for those who have stopped paying! Any other decision would be unfair and insulting to those who are still paying!
Well-said!
Sometimes, this kind of thinking is useful self-motivation to earn more money. That's not a bad thing if you come from a rough neighborhood. A lot of people coming from distressed situations have similar ideas, except they're different. Consider... "I'm not the kind of person who..."
* sells illegal drugs for money.
* performs sex acts for money.
* drops out of school.
* buys stolen goods.
* believes the sarcastic teachers at school.
* gets high to deal with life.
Thinking like that can save your life.
With the economic downturn, 'hoods will go to gangs and police are looking the other way. People are resisting, but there's going to be more poverty, more organized crime seeing opportunities to sell the fantasy of intoxication and consumer goods to downwardly mobile middle class, and people getting caught up in negative self-destruction.
Thanks for nothing Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan.
Anyone have any recommendations for HDHP in massachusetts? I'm trying to find one and it's so hard to compare them all. I consider myself pretty informed about this stuff so if I'm having a hard time picking a good plan I can't imagine those who don't know how parts of this work.
My wife and I are very healthy but going to have a child in the next year. I can't figure out what plans would cover that the best.
I'm a solo business owner and choose not to have dental insurance (which is hard to find and expensive) and instead pay cash for my son and I. If anyone has ideas of what WOULD help in my situation, to save money, I'd love to hear it.
A big thank you to the dental employees and dentists who replied on this topic! Saving money requires you to be informed, something that is hard to become in regards to dental pricing. I really appreciate the comments!
Linsey Knerl
@RDS:
Yeah, I'm certainly not suggesting that people be smug about their wealth. I just want to urge people not to confuse their preferences with their identity, as that sort of confusion can lead people to make very bad choices when they're under stress.
I've written before that there's a big difference between living frugally and living in poverty--even if the standard of living is about the same: See, for example, Voluntary simplicty versus poverty.
I manage a medium-sized dental office that is doing extremely well. We are currently producing and collecting 20% more than last year, and last year was the best year we'd ever had. Money is still tight, and we have to be very careful or we'll go under like many other dentists in our area. Our doctors are above-the-norm talented, extraordinarily conscientious, and scrupulously honest, (and 2 out of the 3 are very frugal guys). Our fees are not the cheapest or the highest in our area- we are about 70th percentile. A "cleaning" in our office is $84. BUT, our registered dental hygienists -all top-graduates with at least 5 years experience- spend no less than one hour "cleaning" the teeth and educating the patient. Each hygienist makes between $40-45 per hour. Not including the THOUSANDS of dollars we spend on rent, the hundreds of thousands on our equipment, the supplies we buy - and by the way, that toothpaste, floss, the toothbrushes, etc that you take home? We PAY for those - throw in repairs and maintenance on highly sensitive equipment (usually billable at $180/hour), payroll taxes, benefits for our employees, business insurance, malpractice insurance, licensing with authorities, continuing education costs, administrative costs, etc (I could go on, but it even makes ME want to gouge my eyes out); and the simple truth is that "cleanings" are a loss-leader. We make little to nothing on "cleanings" after we cover costs.
The dentist that replied earlier is correct- dental discount plans are nothing more than a gimmick to get you to go to an office you may not have otherwise chosen. You are paying money to a 3rd party who is selling the right to access a PPO network or discount doctor; they have no relationship with the doctor, and the doctor receives nothing from them other than their name listed in a book or on a website. Although it is possible that you can find a reputable doctor who accepts a legitimate PPO insurance plan, and is forced onto the list as part of his contract, most likely what you will find are either miserable chain clinics, new doctors, or doctors who are desperate for patients- any patients. 5 years ago, I worked for an unscrupulous dentist who joined all of the discount plan networks, and then spent HOURS planning ways to manipulate the plans so that when patients came in as members of any plan, they would end up paying just as much- if not more than- a regular uninsured cash patient. She made me charge patients for things like "sterilization" and "oral hygiene instructions" and a myriad of other nonsense that is a given in a normal office under normal fees. I didnt last there very long- I couldn't stomach the tactics and dishonesty. She also had someone unlicensed doing those "cleanings" and would charge for porcelain-fused-to-gold crowns, but give people porcelain-fused-to-base metal crowns, etc. I quit, and never looked back.
I am VERY frugal. But you get what you pay for.
Don't pay for third-party discount plans.... save yourself the trouble, and establish a stable relationship with a dentist that you really like, tell him you like him and his staff, and explain you'd rather pay his usual/customary cash rates minus a 10% cash discount in exchange for paying at the time of service. If he's reasonable, he'll give the discount no problem- it's less than the hit he takes on PPO patients. And if you're nice and tell him you enjoy him and his staff, he'll be flattered, and you'll be treated well - because trust me, our favorite patients are the polite cash patients with an appreciation and an understanding of value-for-value, rather than the PPO people who for the most part treat us like we're there to give them "what's free".
@anonymous and other dentists.
I'm just wondering why dental care is so expensive. Aside from the one time cost of equipment, and other facilities costs, what makes it so much more expensive than a typical primary care health physician?
From what I understand, being a dentist is more risky than a Family doctor and this needs to be taken into account.
I know someone who had a cleaning done for under $30, cash, with no other costs associated. That's really good considering what most people pay for dental premiums and only get one or two cleanings a year.
I should note, that $500 includes towing one way and returning home with out the trailer in tow and now we traveled up to get it and towed it back.
I have never really been one to drive around aimlessly. I have always bundled my errands together, and walked when possible. We are really noticing the savings in our travel though. We have a travel trailer (RV) and it cost us nearly $500 to tow it 500 miles earlier this summer and we just picked it up to bring it home and it cost us half that this time! We are using the savings for an extra weekend at our next destination...and putting the rest under our mattress...ha ha. We are not driving more, just enjoying where we go for longer.
I have been practicing for 20+ years. I have yet to see a plan that saves money on quality dental care. Typically, the plan is an advertising gimmick used to get you into an office that you might not have chosen otherwise.
An extensive resource on business and personal development. A lot of thougths, views and articles on the recent happenings and their impact on economy and your live
Id love to have a root cellar. We used to keep potatoes under the house but I havent done that in years. I do raise a big garden and can and freeze the food. In fact I just wrote about preparing for emergencies today on my own blog.
The idea of a root cellar intrigues me. Wonder if I could talk my husband into it!
Have you read "Joy in the Morning"? That is actually my favorite, although lessl-well-known book, by Betty Smith. Also about scraping by, this time as a young college couple, and I think of it often as I'm budgeting my groceries.
I blog at www.shopliftingwithpermission.com.
So, what are you doing next year. My family is also on a "discount dental" program - it is not enough. I would love to buy a secondary dental but do not even know where to start looking.
I think I agree with you, but I am not quite sure. If you are "being honest" about being rich enough not to take the bus, do you need to "be honest" about spending any money that elevates you beyond a subsistence lifestyle? Should we tell ourselves things like: I'm rich enough that I don't have to sleep outdoors in nice weather, I'm rich enough that I don't have to eat whatever food is available when it is available because I don't know when I will have the chance to eat again.
It is absolutely true that even the less well off in modern America are among the wealthiest people ever to walk the face of the world. It is good to remind ourselves of this and keep this in perspective. However, I think that one can also get carried away and fall into a "frugal-er than thou" attiditude if one takes this too far.
Just my two cents.
Understood that you can't cover everyone's situation...but what do we *do*? I don't see any actual actions as advice here, just theory. For example, in the inequality section...how can it be fixed?
Might be interesting to read the results of an informal survey I posted here
http://readerrant.capitolhillblue.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=86581&fpart=1
a few days ago... had some interesting replies, I think
my opinion only
I have done onling banking with Capital One for a few months and was having overdraft charges so I decided to watch every day and just got hit again. The balance they show is not the correct balance. I had a deposit come in and they took away all the checks coming in before they input the deposit. This is how they are making money.
I even had over 3000.00 in another account and they did not transfer any monies. They charged me 300.00 in NF charges. I just withdrew all my money from this bank.
I'm not the sort of person who'd ever say ANYTHING like that!!
I think sensibilities ARE changing in this regard. I recently was given a car and have begun driving to work although it’s totally possible to take the train. I am often embarrassed by this non-frugal/ecological choice when telling people I know. At least I’m honest with myself in knowing that I’m making the choice because I CAN. I have the luxury to indulge my motion-sickness on public transport. If I didn’t have any other way (which I didn’t for several years), I’d deal. But after becoming debt free and getting a used car as a gift, it’s my treat to myself.
you guys are so lucky!
i live in germany and we pay 1,20 pr litre which is about 6,8& per gallon..
in summer prices here were up to 1,60 per litre!
Hey Carrie,
Thanks for the article. I think NYC makes a good point, too. I wonder if anybody still goes to the library? If they haven't considered it in a while, I'm sure they are now.
I also think you and your readers will enjoy http://www.financialtales.com
I'm off to visit your blogs. Oh, and "Rich Dad Poor Dad" makes a pretty good gift, Stoked.
I too have been unemployed since January. Yup, I'm one of those finacial services people. However, it dawned on me that not everyone has access to all the tools that are needed in the search for employment. So I started a blog. Here's the link: http://uaortheunemployedanonymous.blogspot.com/. I created it as a place for people to go to in order to not only get tips on staying positive and finding places for job leads, but also to not feel quite so alone. During these times when we're all sitting in front of our computers, though we might need a little something to get through the day.
Hi,
I totally know how everyone who hasn't missed a mortgage payment feels! I have been working very hard and constantly paying my mortgage. I don't think it is fair to reward those who stopped paying and forget about those of us who kept our responsibilities. I also agree that though some people actually lost their jobs, there are many who just decided to stop paying because everyone else did, or because they felt their profit was out the door; or even worse, because they felt that they will get a reward for not paying.
The bottom line is: If they plan to reward homeowners either by lowering their remaining mortgage or by coming up with a low interest rate, they need to do this for EVERYONE....not just for those who have stopped paying! Any other decision would be unfair and insulting to those who are still paying!