This is an incredibly idiotic notion that you have--and arrogant, too. What makes you think that being able to afford a college education qualifies you to have children any more than a family who cannot afford it? I think you might need to get your parenting priorities straight before you do or do not have more children. I am the youngest of five children whose parents could barely keep a roof over our heads, let alone put all five of us through college. Somehow (miracle of miracles), all five of us put ourselves through college without incurring staggering debt or feeling emotionally scarred. We all have advanced degrees: two of us are doctors. I don't think we are a particularly exceptional story. Many, many families of humble origin have managed to spawn highly educated, independent and financially stable children without 529s or prepaid college plans. N.B.: I have taught at several universities over the last 15 years, and I can tell you that the quality of the student does not increase just because Mom and Dad are able to pay the tuition bill. In fact, very often quite the opposite is true. The value of an education becomes apparent quite early to those students for whom more is at stake.
Requesting your partner's credit report ranks right up there with prenuptial agreements in the category of "extremely sensible but extremely uncomfortable" topics of discussion. A lot of people would agree that it's sensible make such requests, but are afraid of offending (and possible losing) their partner.
This point aside, this is a very good article and should be required reading for anyone looking to enter into a committed relationship. Most marital breakdowns are due to financial issues.
Do you have any insight on ageing and if i do use a corn sugar water mash how much head and tail do i take off someone said if i get a thermometer and put in the the still sticking into the mash that the tempature will stay the same when certain things are boiling (such as methonal) i think it was 148 so if it says at there for lets say 5 mins thats all the head that comes out , Is there any truth to that?
and does anybody have fuller details on ageing the shine ill ive seen is that u use white oak but it doesnt tell you how to do could i just char that oak and stick it in the mason jar ?
This is a good article, but I really think that giving and allowance to a 5 year old child is a bit too early.
If anyone is interested in having their children participate in a program about money management, Junior Achievement has a very good one called "Dollars and Sense", which is oriented towards Grades 7 and 8. I taught this course (it's a 6 hour all day course) as a volunteer from the financial community (in Toronto, Canada).
I'm 26 and although I feel that I'm still young enough to pursue my dream, I'm old enough to know that I need to be serious about my future. I agree with Phin that not everyone will achieve their dreams but at the same time I think it is important to at least try otherwise you'll always wonder "what if".
"The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed." - Lloyd Jones
There's got to be a lawyer lurking on these posts. I've always wondered about suing to enjoin collection on some of these egregious prices. Oftentimes the minor procedures (checking blood pressure, temperature, etc.) aren't related to the issue at hand, but are billed in a manner to collect $. Why not attempt to enjoin collection under a theory that there was no agreement there. In cases where the thing being charged for is what you came in for (stitches, let's say), and they bill you 3k for 3 stitches without discussing the cost, couldn't you enjoin the hospital from collecting on a theory that that price is not the fair market value of the procedure, and you never agreed to it. Someone help me out here.
I live in Australia, and have been lucky enough not to need to use the public medical system anyway, but I've been hearing for years how people in the US keep getting socked with huge medical bills that really put a strain on their finances, but this is the first time I've seen actual figures.
$12000 for an overnight stay in a hospital with some tests? Sounds to me like at least some parts of the system are insanely overpriced. If avoiding the overnight stay would have save roughly have the price, what in the world justifies charging around $6000 for an overnight stay in a hospital?
Those prices sound absolutely absurd. I'd love to see someone justify those figures. I doubt they could.
I think some garage sales are a waste of time and energy. I shop them and sometimes I avoid them. Most of the items are overpriced and it's disappointing when the seller is not willing to come down with price on "junk" or no longer wanted items. I have shopped sales but it is rare when I find it worthwhile. I always thought the concept behind a garage sale was to get rid of stuff. If no buys the item then the person is still stuck with it so why would a person overprice items and not be willing to negotiate ESPECIALLY the last day of the sell. Mind bogglin.
I once shopped a sale and there was a "used" comforter and the seller wanted $35 bucks for it. I tried to get her to come down on the price explaining I would have to have it drycleaned. I tried to get her to bring the price down to $25-$20 but she would not budge.
Again, my question is aren't we trying to get rid of "stuff". So again I shop them and sometimes I avoid them.
I found this post to be very informative. I am an avid reader of WiseBread, and think many of your posts are great for college aged students. As far as financial aid tips go, I would also recommend students take a look at 89 Financial Aid for College Tips: http://studentloansforcollege.org/financialaidforcollegetips.html
I had read this article. I thank you the one who wrote that. I had read some articles as this one. Moreover I had watched some videos that are similiar to them on izlesene. While i was watching some videos on facebook I had seen many videos about that.
oh am i a dummy! I wanted to join in on the tweetchat this afternoon...was all ready to go and then realized that you are on a different time zone than me. I missed it...blahhhh!
That's me- a day late & a dollar short. Anyway:
having garage sales--absolutely
shop them--occasionally
avoid them like the flu--as much as possible
I have a tendency to go a little over-board when i see something being sold for 'pennies on the dollar'...(hence the reason I need to HAVE garage sales). So i figure what i don't know can't hurt me. I have learned to stay away. Every once in awhile they will get me though. I will be driving down the road and they will put that ONE item out there, you know at the END of the driveway so that i can see it from a mile down the road. Then if i can't control myself, i stop.
I remedy this by just driving down the road with both eyes closed. Great for me, but not too good for the other drivers, if you know what i mean.
I have tried to work with an outfit called About Face located in the Atlanta area. They positively are not in the communication business. You never get anyone when you call and in my experience, messages are seldom returned (I never had one returned). Furthermore, they don't know their clients very well and insist that information be provided to them that is not part of the operators SOP. Furthermore, you can't get this bunch of bozo's to drop you from their mailing list.
$3000 for emergency room visit and X-ray is pretty steep. I had a similar emergency room visit not too long ago with xrays. The hospital charged about $1300 and the insurance rate negotiated it down to $600.
I agree that health care billing is a nightmare. Hospitals charge almost random amounts of money that are probably 10xx the true costs, they give an invoice with indecipherable gibberish and then the insurance company pays a fraction of the bill. You get the same treatment from 2 hospitals and the price can vary drastically. The same treatment paid for by 2 different insurance plans and the price can vary drastically. The whole system is a complete mess.
I don't think haggling with the doctor in the emergency room is the best solution for our current system. Our system is setup so that the insurance company will handle the haggling. That way you and the doctor can focus on the illness or injury and not waste time and effort with the paperwork and negotiating the cost of your bed pans.
I had this going for me and contemplated the same thing... i did it.. had a VERY successful yard sale last weekend!
My biggest reason is that we downsized when my wifes job moved us and we still had "junk" plus, also between mywife and I we have lost a total of 110lbs and had alot of extra clothes...
plus two children under 5... means lots of senseless toys, clothes...
we made our money, and purged items... and afterwards, donated the rest to the church
Our system has to change but I do not know a good solution. On the one hand, some doctors do not receive enough in payment from Medicare for some procedures, much less Medicaid. On the other hand, there are undisclosed conflicts of interest which the patient may wish to know before proceeding with certain diagnosis tools or treatments. I wrote about one of my own experiences, though I have had several more since the date of this article: http://bit.ly/3CI5aj
I am also for educating yourself about financial matters because there is only so much that formal education will teach you about finance and investing and the bloodthirsty nature of stockbrokers. i have never really believed in the pay yourself first maxim even though it seems practical and workable
My daughter was born at 25 weeks gestation and weighed 660 grams. She spent three and a half months in a Level 3 NICU, before being transferred to our home city's Level 2. $1483 a day for a hundred days. When I was in labour, the doctor asked me what sort of medical interventions I wanted, and if I lived in the United States instead of Canada, I wouldn't have been able to walk her to kindergarten this morning, and we wouldn't be singing Happy Birthday to her tomorrow.
I think this is a good post especially for people who focus too much on their troubles or on things they want and don't have. An advantage to living in NYC is the proximity to the extreme opposites that exist here. Yes, I see the wealthy every day, but I also see homeless people, some dressed in rags and people begging on the streets. So I am constantly reminded of how fortunate I am to have all that I have.
Unfortunately ER visist costs need to be extremely high in order to cover their costs. You may just see a few xrays and meds being given but you do not see they very expensive overhead of an ER. All kinds of specialists need to be staffed whether they are used or not. (Cardiologist, ortho, surgeons, etc) This is what makes the cost very high, and there is simply no way around that.
Also the problem of patients suing hospitals drives up the cost, and not just in the form of malpractice insurance. Doctors HAVE TO order all kinds of unnecessary tests to rule out the most obscure possible causes to your problem. An example of this is if you come into an ER with Apendicitis, and you need surgery, most surgeons will not perform the surgery until after you have a catscan, even though the DR's and Nurses know you have apendicitis. The reason they do this is because of the very small amount of people who will not have apendicitis. The problem being here is that while you are waiting for that catscan, your apendix might burst and you might die. But there is less liability for that, than opening up someone who does not have apendicitis.
I agree about making the costs known, but I think your examples are flawed. The problem is, when pain turn out to be something simple we say "those doctors are just greedy." But what if it had turned out to be something serious and the doctor released your friend to go home? Then he would come back with a lawsuit saying "the doctor should have known better than to let me go home!" What would you do as a doctor? Risk someone's life and a potential lawsuit, or err to the side of caution and keep your friend with the chest pains overnight? That procedure saves lives, and saving lives is expensive.
Being able to get price information would sometimes help, but it's no kind of solution.
Suppose the guy with chest pains who balks at the cost of overnight in the emergency room goes home, then turns out to be having a heart attack and needs an ambulance trip back to the hospital? He hasn't come out ahead (and that's before considering that the further delay might cause more serious injury costing an order of magnitude more in treatment costs, rehab costs, lost earnings, etc.).
The real problem is not that people can't shop around (although it's true that they can't), the real problem is that it's impractical to do the shopping around when you're sick or injured. Very few people who show up at the emergency room with a dislocated shoulder are going to seriously consider asking for a price list and then going to a different emergency room with better prices; they're going to be much more concerned with whether the doctor who will be reducing their injury has the skill to know whether their injury is one of the rare ones that needs other-than-routine treatment. (There are fractures that look like dislocated shoulders where you can do permanent disabling injury if you treat them like a dislocated shoulder.)
Yes, you might decline some particular expensive treatment option if you could line up a much cheaper one that's almost as good, but when you're scared and in pain is not the best time to be making that sort of decision.
The upshot is that the "shopping around" should be done up front—which is what insurance companies do via negotiated rates. Shopping around at the point when you need care is never going to work.
As GUEST says, the ER should only be used if you think you are dying. Seriously.
BCBS offers an ask a nurse line, which gives some excellent feedback and can tell you if you should go to the emergency room. We've used it a number of times when we had situations we weren't quite sure were serious enough to demand an emergency room trip.
Also, choose a doctor that has a larger practice if possible, so there are many alternatives within the place, including RNs, etc. That will increase the chance that you can get an appointment in a hurry.
Finally, you can leave your doctor a message. I've always had good luck with them calling back within a few hours. They may able to tell you something over the phone to do before an appointment is available, give you a prescription or referral, tell you to go directly to the emergency room or maybe even find a way to work you in for an appointment.
As GUEST says, the ER should only be used if you think you are dying. Seriously.
BCBS offers an ask a nurse line, which gives some excellent feedback and can tell you if you should go to the emergency room. We've used it a number of times when we had situations we weren't quite sure were serious enough to demand an emergency room trip.
Also, choose a doctor that has a larger practice if possible, so there are many alternatives within the place, including RNs, etc. That will increase the chance that you can get an appointment in a hurry.
Finally, you can leave your doctor a message. I've always had good luck with them calling back within a few hours. They may able to tell you something over the phone to do before an appointment is available, give you a prescription or referral, tell you to go directly to the emergency room or maybe even find a way to work you in for an appointment.
This is an incredibly idiotic notion that you have--and arrogant, too. What makes you think that being able to afford a college education qualifies you to have children any more than a family who cannot afford it? I think you might need to get your parenting priorities straight before you do or do not have more children. I am the youngest of five children whose parents could barely keep a roof over our heads, let alone put all five of us through college. Somehow (miracle of miracles), all five of us put ourselves through college without incurring staggering debt or feeling emotionally scarred. We all have advanced degrees: two of us are doctors. I don't think we are a particularly exceptional story. Many, many families of humble origin have managed to spawn highly educated, independent and financially stable children without 529s or prepaid college plans. N.B.: I have taught at several universities over the last 15 years, and I can tell you that the quality of the student does not increase just because Mom and Dad are able to pay the tuition bill. In fact, very often quite the opposite is true. The value of an education becomes apparent quite early to those students for whom more is at stake.
Requesting your partner's credit report ranks right up there with prenuptial agreements in the category of "extremely sensible but extremely uncomfortable" topics of discussion. A lot of people would agree that it's sensible make such requests, but are afraid of offending (and possible losing) their partner.
This point aside, this is a very good article and should be required reading for anyone looking to enter into a committed relationship. Most marital breakdowns are due to financial issues.
Do you have any insight on ageing and if i do use a corn sugar water mash how much head and tail do i take off someone said if i get a thermometer and put in the the still sticking into the mash that the tempature will stay the same when certain things are boiling (such as methonal) i think it was 148 so if it says at there for lets say 5 mins thats all the head that comes out , Is there any truth to that?
and does anybody have fuller details on ageing the shine ill ive seen is that u use white oak but it doesnt tell you how to do could i just char that oak and stick it in the mason jar ?
This is a good article, but I really think that giving and allowance to a 5 year old child is a bit too early.
If anyone is interested in having their children participate in a program about money management, Junior Achievement has a very good one called "Dollars and Sense", which is oriented towards Grades 7 and 8. I taught this course (it's a 6 hour all day course) as a volunteer from the financial community (in Toronto, Canada).
I'm 26 and although I feel that I'm still young enough to pursue my dream, I'm old enough to know that I need to be serious about my future. I agree with Phin that not everyone will achieve their dreams but at the same time I think it is important to at least try otherwise you'll always wonder "what if".
"The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed." - Lloyd Jones
There's got to be a lawyer lurking on these posts. I've always wondered about suing to enjoin collection on some of these egregious prices. Oftentimes the minor procedures (checking blood pressure, temperature, etc.) aren't related to the issue at hand, but are billed in a manner to collect $. Why not attempt to enjoin collection under a theory that there was no agreement there. In cases where the thing being charged for is what you came in for (stitches, let's say), and they bill you 3k for 3 stitches without discussing the cost, couldn't you enjoin the hospital from collecting on a theory that that price is not the fair market value of the procedure, and you never agreed to it. Someone help me out here.
I live in Australia, and have been lucky enough not to need to use the public medical system anyway, but I've been hearing for years how people in the US keep getting socked with huge medical bills that really put a strain on their finances, but this is the first time I've seen actual figures.
$12000 for an overnight stay in a hospital with some tests? Sounds to me like at least some parts of the system are insanely overpriced. If avoiding the overnight stay would have save roughly have the price, what in the world justifies charging around $6000 for an overnight stay in a hospital?
Those prices sound absolutely absurd. I'd love to see someone justify those figures. I doubt they could.
I think some garage sales are a waste of time and energy. I shop them and sometimes I avoid them. Most of the items are overpriced and it's disappointing when the seller is not willing to come down with price on "junk" or no longer wanted items. I have shopped sales but it is rare when I find it worthwhile. I always thought the concept behind a garage sale was to get rid of stuff. If no buys the item then the person is still stuck with it so why would a person overprice items and not be willing to negotiate ESPECIALLY the last day of the sell. Mind bogglin.
I once shopped a sale and there was a "used" comforter and the seller wanted $35 bucks for it. I tried to get her to come down on the price explaining I would have to have it drycleaned. I tried to get her to bring the price down to $25-$20 but she would not budge.
Again, my question is aren't we trying to get rid of "stuff". So again I shop them and sometimes I avoid them.
Submitted by Yolanda
I found this post to be very informative. I am an avid reader of WiseBread, and think many of your posts are great for college aged students. As far as financial aid tips go, I would also recommend students take a look at 89 Financial Aid for College Tips: http://studentloansforcollege.org/financialaidforcollegetips.html
Thanks!
CJ
I had read this article. I thank you the one who wrote that. I had read some articles as this one. Moreover I had watched some videos that are similiar to them on izlesene. While i was watching some videos on facebook I had seen many videos about that.
I thank the guy who wrote this article.
oh am i a dummy! I wanted to join in on the tweetchat this afternoon...was all ready to go and then realized that you are on a different time zone than me. I missed it...blahhhh!
That's me- a day late & a dollar short. Anyway:
having garage sales--absolutely
shop them--occasionally
avoid them like the flu--as much as possible
I have a tendency to go a little over-board when i see something being sold for 'pennies on the dollar'...(hence the reason I need to HAVE garage sales). So i figure what i don't know can't hurt me. I have learned to stay away. Every once in awhile they will get me though. I will be driving down the road and they will put that ONE item out there, you know at the END of the driveway so that i can see it from a mile down the road. Then if i can't control myself, i stop.
I remedy this by just driving down the road with both eyes closed. Great for me, but not too good for the other drivers, if you know what i mean.
I have tried to work with an outfit called About Face located in the Atlanta area. They positively are not in the communication business. You never get anyone when you call and in my experience, messages are seldom returned (I never had one returned). Furthermore, they don't know their clients very well and insist that information be provided to them that is not part of the operators SOP. Furthermore, you can't get this bunch of bozo's to drop you from their mailing list.
"Also the problem of patients suing hospitals drives up the cost"
I think the cost of lawsuits is very exaggerated. That sems to be the doctors and hospitals pointing blame elsewhere. Its a red herring.
Malpractice accounts for 1-2% of the total cost of healthcare in the USA. Doctor errors are estimated to add about 2% of the cost of healthcare.
$3000 for emergency room visit and X-ray is pretty steep. I had a similar emergency room visit not too long ago with xrays. The hospital charged about $1300 and the insurance rate negotiated it down to $600.
I agree that health care billing is a nightmare. Hospitals charge almost random amounts of money that are probably 10xx the true costs, they give an invoice with indecipherable gibberish and then the insurance company pays a fraction of the bill. You get the same treatment from 2 hospitals and the price can vary drastically. The same treatment paid for by 2 different insurance plans and the price can vary drastically. The whole system is a complete mess.
I don't think haggling with the doctor in the emergency room is the best solution for our current system. Our system is setup so that the insurance company will handle the haggling. That way you and the doctor can focus on the illness or injury and not waste time and effort with the paperwork and negotiating the cost of your bed pans.
I had this going for me and contemplated the same thing... i did it.. had a VERY successful yard sale last weekend!
My biggest reason is that we downsized when my wifes job moved us and we still had "junk" plus, also between mywife and I we have lost a total of 110lbs and had alot of extra clothes...
plus two children under 5... means lots of senseless toys, clothes...
we made our money, and purged items... and afterwards, donated the rest to the church
Our system has to change but I do not know a good solution. On the one hand, some doctors do not receive enough in payment from Medicare for some procedures, much less Medicaid. On the other hand, there are undisclosed conflicts of interest which the patient may wish to know before proceeding with certain diagnosis tools or treatments. I wrote about one of my own experiences, though I have had several more since the date of this article: http://bit.ly/3CI5aj
Gratitude is definitely a key to finding peace. Thanks for the reminder!
I am also for educating yourself about financial matters because there is only so much that formal education will teach you about finance and investing and the bloodthirsty nature of stockbrokers. i have never really believed in the pay yourself first maxim even though it seems practical and workable
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content-nw/full/103/1/SE1/329/T1
My daughter was born at 25 weeks gestation and weighed 660 grams. She spent three and a half months in a Level 3 NICU, before being transferred to our home city's Level 2. $1483 a day for a hundred days. When I was in labour, the doctor asked me what sort of medical interventions I wanted, and if I lived in the United States instead of Canada, I wouldn't have been able to walk her to kindergarten this morning, and we wouldn't be singing Happy Birthday to her tomorrow.
I think this is a good post especially for people who focus too much on their troubles or on things they want and don't have. An advantage to living in NYC is the proximity to the extreme opposites that exist here. Yes, I see the wealthy every day, but I also see homeless people, some dressed in rags and people begging on the streets. So I am constantly reminded of how fortunate I am to have all that I have.
Unfortunately ER visist costs need to be extremely high in order to cover their costs. You may just see a few xrays and meds being given but you do not see they very expensive overhead of an ER. All kinds of specialists need to be staffed whether they are used or not. (Cardiologist, ortho, surgeons, etc) This is what makes the cost very high, and there is simply no way around that.
Also the problem of patients suing hospitals drives up the cost, and not just in the form of malpractice insurance. Doctors HAVE TO order all kinds of unnecessary tests to rule out the most obscure possible causes to your problem. An example of this is if you come into an ER with Apendicitis, and you need surgery, most surgeons will not perform the surgery until after you have a catscan, even though the DR's and Nurses know you have apendicitis. The reason they do this is because of the very small amount of people who will not have apendicitis. The problem being here is that while you are waiting for that catscan, your apendix might burst and you might die. But there is less liability for that, than opening up someone who does not have apendicitis.
I agree about making the costs known, but I think your examples are flawed. The problem is, when pain turn out to be something simple we say "those doctors are just greedy." But what if it had turned out to be something serious and the doctor released your friend to go home? Then he would come back with a lawsuit saying "the doctor should have known better than to let me go home!" What would you do as a doctor? Risk someone's life and a potential lawsuit, or err to the side of caution and keep your friend with the chest pains overnight? That procedure saves lives, and saving lives is expensive.
Being able to get price information would sometimes help, but it's no kind of solution.
Suppose the guy with chest pains who balks at the cost of overnight in the emergency room goes home, then turns out to be having a heart attack and needs an ambulance trip back to the hospital? He hasn't come out ahead (and that's before considering that the further delay might cause more serious injury costing an order of magnitude more in treatment costs, rehab costs, lost earnings, etc.).
The real problem is not that people can't shop around (although it's true that they can't), the real problem is that it's impractical to do the shopping around when you're sick or injured. Very few people who show up at the emergency room with a dislocated shoulder are going to seriously consider asking for a price list and then going to a different emergency room with better prices; they're going to be much more concerned with whether the doctor who will be reducing their injury has the skill to know whether their injury is one of the rare ones that needs other-than-routine treatment. (There are fractures that look like dislocated shoulders where you can do permanent disabling injury if you treat them like a dislocated shoulder.)
Yes, you might decline some particular expensive treatment option if you could line up a much cheaper one that's almost as good, but when you're scared and in pain is not the best time to be making that sort of decision.
The upshot is that the "shopping around" should be done up front—which is what insurance companies do via negotiated rates. Shopping around at the point when you need care is never going to work.
As GUEST says, the ER should only be used if you think you are dying. Seriously.
BCBS offers an ask a nurse line, which gives some excellent feedback and can tell you if you should go to the emergency room. We've used it a number of times when we had situations we weren't quite sure were serious enough to demand an emergency room trip.
Also, choose a doctor that has a larger practice if possible, so there are many alternatives within the place, including RNs, etc. That will increase the chance that you can get an appointment in a hurry.
Finally, you can leave your doctor a message. I've always had good luck with them calling back within a few hours. They may able to tell you something over the phone to do before an appointment is available, give you a prescription or referral, tell you to go directly to the emergency room or maybe even find a way to work you in for an appointment.
As GUEST says, the ER should only be used if you think you are dying. Seriously.
BCBS offers an ask a nurse line, which gives some excellent feedback and can tell you if you should go to the emergency room. We've used it a number of times when we had situations we weren't quite sure were serious enough to demand an emergency room trip.
Also, choose a doctor that has a larger practice if possible, so there are many alternatives within the place, including RNs, etc. That will increase the chance that you can get an appointment in a hurry.
Finally, you can leave your doctor a message. I've always had good luck with them calling back within a few hours. They may able to tell you something over the phone to do before an appointment is available, give you a prescription or referral, tell you to go directly to the emergency room or maybe even find a way to work you in for an appointment.