as this is getting ridiculous. But our smallest child has a running bike, she's 3, and when we go on long walks she is still at a stage where she needs a nap and needs the stroller. We also have jogging strollers as the kids can't keep up with us. So kids can ride bikes and still be in strollers. And I think I'll stop with the comments section now.
This post comes the day after we did our monthly stock up at Trader Joe's in Reno. We augment that with the co-op and co-op membership. Rice and beans always save the day of course but you can get pretty far. What pushes up those grocery bills are the microbrews and other non -essential co-op items but the veggies and fruits just don't really cost that much if they are in season.
by that account anyone who ever lost their job and needed help didn't think about the future. In fact, anyone who doesn't have an enormous bank account with living expenses tucked away for 8 months hasn't done it right. To take it further, anyone who relies on the government for anything is entitled. But anyway, you clearly did everything right and have never taken a handout for anything, so for that I congratulate you. Most people have made a few mistakes though, I'm now seeing I'm one of them for ever trusting in mortgage brokers who sat down and showed me the appreciation numbers on my home before I bought it.
It's interesting to hear of this dilemma in the States. In Australia, we definitely don't have the cost factor as an excuse for eating fast food (unless of course, you're going to compare it with eating a restaurant meal). Fast food in Australia just isn't that cheap.
As an example, McDonalds is currently heavily promoting their family "meal deal" for four people at $20 (and given this consists of small fries and small drinks, I'm not sure how many adults / growing teenagers it would fill anyway). When you consider that our two major supermarket chains are currently enthusiastically advertising the recipe cards for home cooked meals to "feed the family for under $10", it's a tough argument to make.
Sure, organic produce might set you back a bit more, but with the prevalance of farmers markets, obtaining fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and deli products isn't difficult or costly.
I can't really remember the last time my husband and I ate fast food... and we spend under $400 a month on all our grocery needs - including lunches and cleaning products.
Perhaps it isn't a difference in our two countries however, so much as the ability to plan meals in advance!
@gt0163c
You have the right idea if you keep eating a variety of minimally-processed foods in moderation.
The fuss about "what's good and what's bad for me this week" is very rarely due to any shift in scientific consensus, but far more often the result of a particular scientific paper having its meaning stretched beyond all recognition.
Try reading some of the particular journal articles (particularly "reviews") in their original sources rather than the newspaper. You'll see that they more often complement and refine each other than contradict outright. Medical journal editors are also less likely than newspaper editors to let sensational speculation through. For example, excess saturated fat can be bad in some cases, but one might eat certain foods high in saturated fat anyway because of their nutrient content or because excess trans fats might be worse.
I want to:
1 - choose my own doctor. I don't want to have to change doctors now that I have found one I really like.
2 - have preventive care encouraged - vaccines, nutrition counseling, regular checkups, etc. It is much cheaper for me to have my medication than a resulting bigger issue, much cheaper for me to be outpatient than inpatient, etc.
3 - put strong limits on malpractice suits. I want to be able to FIND an ob/gyn when necessary, not have them all leave the profession because malpractice insurance premiums are so high.
This post reminds me of a TED presentation on the difference between experiences where you think you are having fun and experiences where you will remember having had fun.
"Daniel Kahneman: The riddle of experience vs. memory" http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_mem...
One aspect of this difference was covered in the scientific study "You’re Having Fun When Time Flies: The Hedonic Consequences of Subjective Time Progression" led by Aaron M. Sackett. The title is a pretty good summary (the exception being that the effect was destroyed when subjects believed their sense of time was being manipulated externally). http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2009/11/25/0956797609354832.full
@WR
Your CNN example wasn't too bad. But I have to say that science reporting in the popular media is, by and large, crap. Reporters often can't be bothered to explore (or their editors trim out) the nuanced positions and study limitations that scientific papers offer. Try to cite original sources when possible.
And over weight people and people who sit around and don't exercise. Heck, while we are at it... We should have mandatory, government sanctioned exercise sessions so that all the fat people who eat more than their share don't impose their health risks on us smokers or drinkers.
And how about if your fat is on my non smoking airline seat, you pay for my ride too..
use bleach and leave it on for five minutes the wipe it off with boiling vinageur. trust me it works. i was testing some remidies out and this on worked. perfect combination.
Do you think Bank of America will give you a loan for a bigger house after you walk away from this one?
I can't believe how entitled you feel to the government's (and the Wisebread reader's) money. It's like a slap in the face to anyone that has not taken a handout and has been responsible for their financial decisions.
You say you did "everything right". Actually you didn't. Your financial plan for your family and their living space and quality of life was completely dependent on the value of your home rising. Now that it has lost value, you have nothing to fall back on and you write about wanting to walk away...?
Next time maybe you should write about making sound financial plans for your growing family before complaining that you aren't getting your fair share of handouts. You might as well write about "How to take advantage of soup kitchens and how it can save you money on eating out"
I would also advise losing that "tough skin" and really listening to what others are telling you. What you really have is a sense of entitlement and stubborness and it doesn't serve you well.
My number one offering would be easy to understand with low premiums. It would offer preventive care and cover pre-existing conditions, the main reason I'm unable to get affordable insurance right now.
"You have a stuffed garage, and then complain of cramped space."
It's like saying "you have no money in your bank account, and then complain about being poor." What would your advice be? There is no room in the home for the things in the stuffed garage. I would rather not sell or give away the things in the garage, they are too important to us. The kids need their bikes. We need strollers. We need everything in there in fact, and regularly go through the garage to make sure that anything we can throw away, or give away, gets taken care of. So what exactly are you suggesting I do?
there is no reason to stop reading wise bread because you disagree with one post or one blogger. This is a collective of bloggers and ideas, and you would be cutting of your nose to spite your face if you stopped reading such a marvellous resource because of my opinion. That, to be honest, is very foolish.
As for the skewering I've received, I've got pretty tough skin. What I will say is that I deserve no more of a handout than any of the businesses that have received billions of dollars from the government. But if they are getting help due to their bad decisions, shouldn't that trickle down to the public? And it's clearly not so ridiculous an idea if Bank Of America are cutting the principal owed on mortgages.
The high deductible plan with a Health Savings Account (HSA) that I've got right now is great. Its got a relatively low deductible for such plans, the HSA funds are tax free to myself, preventative care is free and the insurance premium costs to my employer are well below averages. I get lots of choice in my care and have access to good doctors. Plus the higher deductible and HSA give us more control and accountability for the costs. I guess the only way to improve it substantially will be to make it portable so that I could keep the same benefits even if I change employers or retire early.
This post baffles me. You have a home that you can afford. You have a stuffed garage, and then complain of cramped space. The fact that the house's value has gone down is irrelevant.
Four people don't need that much space; I shared a room with my sister and the whole family shared one bathroom. And we did perfectly well.
Perhaps you should change your expectations.
I'm not sure what is the correct answer. Currently, 30% minimum of my take home pay goes towards paying into our HSA and the premium for my DH. I attempted to get him a separate policy. They came back with a quote of under $300/mo. When I told them he had diabetes (well controlled - meds have been lowered and may be eliminated), hypertension (under control) and hyperlipidemia (under control), they said they wouldn't insure him. No higher quote or anything, just plain "no." He can't get insurance through his work as they don't offer it. Our insurance plan is changing next month to a 20/80 pay and tiered RX. We have a $3,000 deductible each.
I have a chronic genetic disorder. I didn't acquire it through unhealthy living. I was born with it. If I leave/lose my job, I may not be able to get insured again. DH can't get insurance now either. He says to drop him off of my insurance and save $700.00 a month but we can't do that because 1) he'd probably never get an insurance company to cover him again and 2) we'd never be able to pay the healthcare bill if he were to be hospitalized for complications from his diabetes/hypertension/hyperlipemia.
What I'd really like in health insurance is to not have my premium/deductible be equal or more than what is recommended for a person to budget for a house payment (30%).
I would like a health plan that actually covers what is wrong with me. I need a particular surgery - it directly affects my "quality of life" in that if I don't get the surgery, I soon won't be able to eat (chew) food. Seriously, that's a pretty big effin' deal. And no policy I've looked into covers anything regarding the jaw joint unless the problem (and resulting surgery needed) comes from some sort of accident, like a car crash. The fact that my jaw is deteriorating and my surgeon certifies I have to have this surgery .... no one will cover it, so I have to pay the $11K out of pocket. And that's just for one side, eventually I'll have to pay another $11K for the other side when it goes. And I have what is considered a pretty decent Blue Cross plan!
Great article, I honestly don't mind spending a little more money for slow food, it's worth it and there are benefits outside of how much my groceries cost. Supporting local business is worth voting for with dollars.
Health insurance should NOT penalize women for being female, should NOT give outrageous rates for people with prior conditions, and it SHOULD be equal for all genders and races (although I do agree with penalties for smokers and heavy drinkers...not a "moral" issue, but seriously, that stuff will mess with your health and it's an optional activity). Outrageous co-pays and premiums are also a major thumbs down.
Thanks for sharing your story. I can understand your frustration with Citi. It infuriates me when companies treat paying customers like they don't matter. Paying customers are the very reason for their existence; they should treat us all as if their survival depends on the customer's satisfaction, instead of their ability to bribe politicians for tax money.
However, I agree with some of the other comments that it is unreasonable to expect any sort of reduction because you want a bigger house. Or because other people got a reduction. Or because the government handed our tax dollars over to Citi (appalling). It's my understanding that Citi has agreed to pay that money back though. That doesn't make their use of tax money right, but it does make their 'assistance' received different than the 'assistance' you would like to receive.
I would also like to offer a different perspective. What would it have cost you to rent that house for the last 7.5 years? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K, maybe? I've spent nearly that amount in the last 7.5 years on renting, and for most of that time, I didn't have a second bedroom or a garage. For part of it, I was just renting a room. Those are sunk costs for the both of us. My landlords didn't roll out the red carpet for me either, and sometimes they tried to extort more money from me, making illegal deductions from my security deposit, etc. I have also not included in my calculations the costs of moving - double rent, truck rental, labor, missed work, deposit deductions for cleaning, painting, wear and tear.
You have been skewered quite a bit for this article. I don't wish to vilify you; I can sympathize that your situation seems unfair. I don't think the banks are blame-free. But their bad decisions/actions do not make them responsible for rectifying your situation. In my non-legal, non-expert opinion, your best option is to keep paying, and find a way to make the current space seem less cramped. Good luck.
as this is getting ridiculous. But our smallest child has a running bike, she's 3, and when we go on long walks she is still at a stage where she needs a nap and needs the stroller. We also have jogging strollers as the kids can't keep up with us. So kids can ride bikes and still be in strollers. And I think I'll stop with the comments section now.
This post comes the day after we did our monthly stock up at Trader Joe's in Reno. We augment that with the co-op and co-op membership. Rice and beans always save the day of course but you can get pretty far. What pushes up those grocery bills are the microbrews and other non -essential co-op items but the veggies and fruits just don't really cost that much if they are in season.
Margaret Garcia-Couoh
I am not Suzette, but do you really need help with this one?
If a child can ride a bike, they no longer need a stroller.
by that account anyone who ever lost their job and needed help didn't think about the future. In fact, anyone who doesn't have an enormous bank account with living expenses tucked away for 8 months hasn't done it right. To take it further, anyone who relies on the government for anything is entitled. But anyway, you clearly did everything right and have never taken a handout for anything, so for that I congratulate you. Most people have made a few mistakes though, I'm now seeing I'm one of them for ever trusting in mortgage brokers who sat down and showed me the appreciation numbers on my home before I bought it.
This is breaking the law.
A GRATUITY by it's very nature is gratuitious. It is NOT guaranteed. They cannot according to NY law charge a gratuity to someone.
Great post, Sarah!
It's interesting to hear of this dilemma in the States. In Australia, we definitely don't have the cost factor as an excuse for eating fast food (unless of course, you're going to compare it with eating a restaurant meal). Fast food in Australia just isn't that cheap.
As an example, McDonalds is currently heavily promoting their family "meal deal" for four people at $20 (and given this consists of small fries and small drinks, I'm not sure how many adults / growing teenagers it would fill anyway). When you consider that our two major supermarket chains are currently enthusiastically advertising the recipe cards for home cooked meals to "feed the family for under $10", it's a tough argument to make.
Sure, organic produce might set you back a bit more, but with the prevalance of farmers markets, obtaining fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and deli products isn't difficult or costly.
I can't really remember the last time my husband and I ate fast food... and we spend under $400 a month on all our grocery needs - including lunches and cleaning products.
Perhaps it isn't a difference in our two countries however, so much as the ability to plan meals in advance!
@gt0163c
You have the right idea if you keep eating a variety of minimally-processed foods in moderation.
The fuss about "what's good and what's bad for me this week" is very rarely due to any shift in scientific consensus, but far more often the result of a particular scientific paper having its meaning stretched beyond all recognition.
Try reading some of the particular journal articles (particularly "reviews") in their original sources rather than the newspaper. You'll see that they more often complement and refine each other than contradict outright. Medical journal editors are also less likely than newspaper editors to let sensational speculation through. For example, excess saturated fat can be bad in some cases, but one might eat certain foods high in saturated fat anyway because of their nutrient content or because excess trans fats might be worse.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695872
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19364995
I want to:
1 - choose my own doctor. I don't want to have to change doctors now that I have found one I really like.
2 - have preventive care encouraged - vaccines, nutrition counseling, regular checkups, etc. It is much cheaper for me to have my medication than a resulting bigger issue, much cheaper for me to be outpatient than inpatient, etc.
3 - put strong limits on malpractice suits. I want to be able to FIND an ob/gyn when necessary, not have them all leave the profession because malpractice insurance premiums are so high.
I would like better coverage for naturopathic and alternative care providers ie chiropractors and accupuncturists.
This post reminds me of a TED presentation on the difference between experiences where you think you are having fun and experiences where you will remember having had fun.
"Daniel Kahneman: The riddle of experience vs. memory"
http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_mem...
One aspect of this difference was covered in the scientific study "You’re Having Fun When Time Flies: The Hedonic Consequences of Subjective Time Progression" led by Aaron M. Sackett. The title is a pretty good summary (the exception being that the effect was destroyed when subjects believed their sense of time was being manipulated externally).
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2009/11/25/0956797609354832.full
@WR
Your CNN example wasn't too bad. But I have to say that science reporting in the popular media is, by and large, crap. Reporters often can't be bothered to explore (or their editors trim out) the nuanced positions and study limitations that scientific papers offer. Try to cite original sources when possible.
"The mediators of experiential purchases: Determining the impact of psychological needs satisfaction and social comparison" by Ryan Howell
http://bss.sfsu.edu/rhowell/Pubs%20-%20PDF/Howell_Hill_JPP_060309.pdf
And over weight people and people who sit around and don't exercise. Heck, while we are at it... We should have mandatory, government sanctioned exercise sessions so that all the fat people who eat more than their share don't impose their health risks on us smokers or drinkers.
And how about if your fat is on my non smoking airline seat, you pay for my ride too..
Just a thought..
use bleach and leave it on for five minutes the wipe it off with boiling vinageur. trust me it works. i was testing some remidies out and this on worked. perfect combination.
Do you think Bank of America will give you a loan for a bigger house after you walk away from this one?
I can't believe how entitled you feel to the government's (and the Wisebread reader's) money. It's like a slap in the face to anyone that has not taken a handout and has been responsible for their financial decisions.
You say you did "everything right". Actually you didn't. Your financial plan for your family and their living space and quality of life was completely dependent on the value of your home rising. Now that it has lost value, you have nothing to fall back on and you write about wanting to walk away...?
Next time maybe you should write about making sound financial plans for your growing family before complaining that you aren't getting your fair share of handouts. You might as well write about "How to take advantage of soup kitchens and how it can save you money on eating out"
I would also advise losing that "tough skin" and really listening to what others are telling you. What you really have is a sense of entitlement and stubborness and it doesn't serve you well.
Thanks, we'll have to give this a try. Since my wife went gluten-free our grocery bill has tripled, so this might be a nice way to save a little cash.
My number one offering would be easy to understand with low premiums. It would offer preventive care and cover pre-existing conditions, the main reason I'm unable to get affordable insurance right now.
help me out with this one please:
"You have a stuffed garage, and then complain of cramped space."
It's like saying "you have no money in your bank account, and then complain about being poor." What would your advice be? There is no room in the home for the things in the stuffed garage. I would rather not sell or give away the things in the garage, they are too important to us. The kids need their bikes. We need strollers. We need everything in there in fact, and regularly go through the garage to make sure that anything we can throw away, or give away, gets taken care of. So what exactly are you suggesting I do?
Any clarification?
there is no reason to stop reading wise bread because you disagree with one post or one blogger. This is a collective of bloggers and ideas, and you would be cutting of your nose to spite your face if you stopped reading such a marvellous resource because of my opinion. That, to be honest, is very foolish.
As for the skewering I've received, I've got pretty tough skin. What I will say is that I deserve no more of a handout than any of the businesses that have received billions of dollars from the government. But if they are getting help due to their bad decisions, shouldn't that trickle down to the public? And it's clearly not so ridiculous an idea if Bank Of America are cutting the principal owed on mortgages.
The high deductible plan with a Health Savings Account (HSA) that I've got right now is great. Its got a relatively low deductible for such plans, the HSA funds are tax free to myself, preventative care is free and the insurance premium costs to my employer are well below averages. I get lots of choice in my care and have access to good doctors. Plus the higher deductible and HSA give us more control and accountability for the costs. I guess the only way to improve it substantially will be to make it portable so that I could keep the same benefits even if I change employers or retire early.
This post baffles me. You have a home that you can afford. You have a stuffed garage, and then complain of cramped space. The fact that the house's value has gone down is irrelevant.
Four people don't need that much space; I shared a room with my sister and the whole family shared one bathroom. And we did perfectly well.
Perhaps you should change your expectations.
I'm not sure what is the correct answer. Currently, 30% minimum of my take home pay goes towards paying into our HSA and the premium for my DH. I attempted to get him a separate policy. They came back with a quote of under $300/mo. When I told them he had diabetes (well controlled - meds have been lowered and may be eliminated), hypertension (under control) and hyperlipidemia (under control), they said they wouldn't insure him. No higher quote or anything, just plain "no." He can't get insurance through his work as they don't offer it. Our insurance plan is changing next month to a 20/80 pay and tiered RX. We have a $3,000 deductible each.
I have a chronic genetic disorder. I didn't acquire it through unhealthy living. I was born with it. If I leave/lose my job, I may not be able to get insured again. DH can't get insurance now either. He says to drop him off of my insurance and save $700.00 a month but we can't do that because 1) he'd probably never get an insurance company to cover him again and 2) we'd never be able to pay the healthcare bill if he were to be hospitalized for complications from his diabetes/hypertension/hyperlipemia.
What I'd really like in health insurance is to not have my premium/deductible be equal or more than what is recommended for a person to budget for a house payment (30%).
I would like a health plan that actually covers what is wrong with me. I need a particular surgery - it directly affects my "quality of life" in that if I don't get the surgery, I soon won't be able to eat (chew) food. Seriously, that's a pretty big effin' deal. And no policy I've looked into covers anything regarding the jaw joint unless the problem (and resulting surgery needed) comes from some sort of accident, like a car crash. The fact that my jaw is deteriorating and my surgeon certifies I have to have this surgery .... no one will cover it, so I have to pay the $11K out of pocket. And that's just for one side, eventually I'll have to pay another $11K for the other side when it goes. And I have what is considered a pretty decent Blue Cross plan!
Great article, I honestly don't mind spending a little more money for slow food, it's worth it and there are benefits outside of how much my groceries cost. Supporting local business is worth voting for with dollars.
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Health insurance should NOT penalize women for being female, should NOT give outrageous rates for people with prior conditions, and it SHOULD be equal for all genders and races (although I do agree with penalties for smokers and heavy drinkers...not a "moral" issue, but seriously, that stuff will mess with your health and it's an optional activity). Outrageous co-pays and premiums are also a major thumbs down.
Thanks for sharing your story. I can understand your frustration with Citi. It infuriates me when companies treat paying customers like they don't matter. Paying customers are the very reason for their existence; they should treat us all as if their survival depends on the customer's satisfaction, instead of their ability to bribe politicians for tax money.
However, I agree with some of the other comments that it is unreasonable to expect any sort of reduction because you want a bigger house. Or because other people got a reduction. Or because the government handed our tax dollars over to Citi (appalling). It's my understanding that Citi has agreed to pay that money back though. That doesn't make their use of tax money right, but it does make their 'assistance' received different than the 'assistance' you would like to receive.
I would also like to offer a different perspective. What would it have cost you to rent that house for the last 7.5 years? Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100K, maybe? I've spent nearly that amount in the last 7.5 years on renting, and for most of that time, I didn't have a second bedroom or a garage. For part of it, I was just renting a room. Those are sunk costs for the both of us. My landlords didn't roll out the red carpet for me either, and sometimes they tried to extort more money from me, making illegal deductions from my security deposit, etc. I have also not included in my calculations the costs of moving - double rent, truck rental, labor, missed work, deposit deductions for cleaning, painting, wear and tear.
You have been skewered quite a bit for this article. I don't wish to vilify you; I can sympathize that your situation seems unfair. I don't think the banks are blame-free. But their bad decisions/actions do not make them responsible for rectifying your situation. In my non-legal, non-expert opinion, your best option is to keep paying, and find a way to make the current space seem less cramped. Good luck.