If you are interested in a 4 year degree- forget the myth that your classes will transfer from the community college to the 4 year university. I have seen many many friends and family spend 6+ years at comm college, only to repeat those classes once they got to a "real" university. Save your time and money over the long run by going straight to a 4 year university. That is what I did! I completed college and medical school in the same amount of time my best friend finished a degree from a community college to become a preschool teacher!
Although the costs of all the little things you don't need add up to a lot of pain for the average household, I don't think those are the expenses that kill you. They keep you from getting ahead (by sucking up money that could have been saved), but when hard times come you can just cut them out of your spending.
The expenses that killl you are the things that you can barely afford, but that you simply have to have: medical care when you're sick, a car to get to work, a safe place to live. Those things are what end up killing your finances--because any expense that you can barely afford can quickly become unaffordable if there's an unexpected expense or a little glitch in income.
I think that's a good point, although I think it's worth dividing the idea of practicality from the idea of fairness.
A lot of modern frugality is only possible because there are so many unfrugal people around us. When others are buying loads of stuff that they don't need, they inevitably end up having to get rid of the previous loads of stuff they didn't need--simply to make room. That means that there's lots of useful stuff available cheap or free. A lot of it will be stuff you don't need, but mixed in there is the occasional necessary item.
If everyone lived a more frugal life, there'd be a lot less of that cheap and free stuff around.
As far as fairness goes, though, I'm inclined to disagree. Even among the people trying to get by without money, most of them have some contact with the money economy--so they're paying sales taxes and all those fees tacked onto their utility bills. If they drive they're paying fuel taxes and registration fees. And even if they don't, they're still paying them indirectly when they chip in for gas when a friend gives them a ride or when they travel on public transit. If they have any earned income at all they're paying social security taxes and the like.
But even those few people who actually succeed in avoiding the money economy altogether are still contributing. How else are you getting by through barter and sharing and doing for yourself except by contributing things others need? Even if everyone lived this way, it could work--with people taking care of friends and neighbors (and doctors bartering their services just like everyone else).
Yeah, I agree with tfan. Health care is a social issue. Someone has to pick up the pieces and it's really not honorable to force others to cover that if you're able to yourself. I love the sentiment of living off the grid, but it's really not fair in our current situation.
I think about the balance between time and money constantly. This piece is timely because right now there are so many articles about saving money by selling your things, cooking more, gardening, etc. In my business, I help people downsize and organize before moving and one area where people spend hours and hours is trying to sell things that aren't worth very much.
Thank for you reminding people about the value and importance of their time!
1) What materials and inputs you use
2) The style of gardening you follow
3) Where you live
4) The benefits that you can't put a specific number on (healthier, more vitamin-rich food, exercise, time outdoors, improving the environment via better soil quality, and more)
5) Correctly analyzing startup costs and annual benefits and dividing up among future years of gardening.
In most of this country, our great-great grandfathers and grandmothers gardened very economically. They didn't use nice raised beds, soaker hoses, seedlings from the local nursery, or seedstarters with fluorescent lights.
So much of what we do today isn't necessary to grow food for the family. Sure, alot of it makes things easier, in terms of quality, how much yield we get, and how much time we have to spend.
In my part of the country the minimum one needs is a cheap fence around the area, tools to prepare or weed the soil, seeds, and some way to water when necessary. (One also needs time to learn, like about recycling food waste through compost back to the garden to cut down on inputs, or about storage, freezing, and canning).
Having said that, I do spend money on seed-starting equipment, soaker hoses, good fencing, a few tools, and a few good books. It frees up my valuable time for other things.
I am fascinated by the subject of ethnic stereotypes and frugality.
I grew up in an upper middle class white family, as I was continually being reminded by my father, who grew up very poor. There was a big difference in his and my attitudes towards money and consumption. He did not take money for granted, but was very flashy and status-conscious. I did take money for granted (I assumed it would just always be available to me somehow), but have always been relatively unconcerned about material posessions.
It wasn't until I grew up and moved to an African-American neighborhood in a big city that I understood my father, which I found amusing; my Dad pretty much embodied the stereotype you describe, although he is white.
I now live in a middle class neighborhood which is about half white and half black, the blacks having been here for decades, the whites only in the last five or six; and what I see is my black neighbors are all like the dad in Everybody Hates Chris - they can squeeze a ton of value out of every last cent.
Also: "An August 2007 study...found anecdotal evidence" lol
Great article! I think as we all start "growing up", we really do have to think more and more about budgeting our time. I actually wrote a post recently about tools people can use to manage their time: http://independentbeginnings.com/2009/04/three-time-management-tools-for...
The article is directed towards college students, but the tools can be used by everyone! They are a great way to get started with time budgeting.
Since I have started working at home a lot doing freelancing, I have found this need to budget my time to be even more important. I'll find myself sitting down to write an article and drifting into reading blogs; or I'll find myself watching a TV show and getting sucked into writing an article during the commercial. While I love the freedom of being able to work when I want, if I don't carefully budget my time I find that home drifts into work and vice versa and it ends up taking much longer than necessary to get things done.
I think it is important to have balance and make sure you have money for fun and money for bills. If you run short on money cut back in places or try to make money from home to increase your income.
Unlike America, Spain has a social safety net - universal healthcare access etc. If you live without money over there, you would be taking advantage of the people who work and pay taxes that pays for your healthcare. Living without money would only be fair if you didn't use any of the common resources that are paid for with taxes.
There are definitely horrible excesses with capitalism, but if everyone tried to live sin dinero, there would be nothing to fund medical advances and other things that benefit society. It would be like living in the middle ages again. Removing yourself from the money economy really only works if most everybody else stays in so I don't really see anything to feel smug about.
I posted this same basic comment, on the "great deals" forum, but I think it's definitely worth posting here as well...
If you've had good experiences with discount plans (like I have), you may want to look at this website I found called, http://www.helpfulbenefits.com. It contains three different "benefit packages" and one if them is a Health Benefits package. It basically combines 5 different health benefit plans for about $17/month...which included my entire family. The plan contains discounts with prescriptions, vision care (through Coast-to-Coast), dental care (through Aetna Dental Access), chiropractic care, and some program called Teladoc (which you can call and talk live to a doctor - no charge).
The website also has benefit packages for other "non-health related" things like LifeLock and Legal Care Direct. All the packages seem to be around $15/month, and they include your immediate family. Anyway, great experiences all the way around, and great bang for your buck.
If you've had good experiences with discount plans (like I have), you may want to look at this website I found called, http://www.helpfulbenefits.com. It contains three different "benefit packages" and one if them is a Health Benefits package. It basically combines 5 different health benefit plans for about $17/month...which included my entire family. The plan contains discounts with prescriptions, vision care (through Coast-to-Coast), dental care (through Aetna Dental Access), chiropractic care, and some program called Teladoc (which you can call and talk live to a doctor - no charge).
The website also has benefit packages for other "non-health related" things like LifeLock and Legal Care Direct. All the packages seem to be around $15/month, and they include your immediate family. Anyway, great experiences all the way around, and great bang for your buck.
-Jeremy
You can always listen to any of our shows after the original airing date. Just to go the original link (or check out our special player in the side bar of our website.) You can even download the show to listen to later on your MP3 player!
My experience at North Seattle Community College was outstanding. The teachers were very enthusiastic about their work and the smaller class size meant they engaged with their students personally.
A mailing I got from NSCC recently included an interesting fact: Over the past two years, every student who applied to the college's education foundation scholarship program was given money. Obviously this can't hold true everywhere, but you might be surprised at (a) how affordable these schools are and (b) the availability of funding.
I urge you to check out this option. Your life might be changed, too.
Everyone who bought houses recklessly and are not getting squeezed will be saved by everyone else! Collective falling! Should last for 4 years at least right =]
Democrazy Socialism!!
I'm houseless, or rather living in an apt (Btw, I clicked thru your profile, I'm presently @ UC Berk in EECS too )
And well, haven't planned that far in my life =)
Also, I love how great the prior program is doing. I wonder how much the admin costs were...
I got my AA from a Community College, and for my MA degree I was accepted by Columbia University. Community Colleges are great -- most of the college experience depends on the student. I was so grateful and proud of the community college where I started, that I taught for 2 years there. I don't teach at the moment, but I am in the process of getting hired by a community college that recently became a state college. Nice post!
The classes at my county's community college are very good, but they are (almost) all in-class classes. Another county's community college is great and offers online classes (taught by their professors). It only costs me a little bit more to take the other county's classes, but it's great because I can do it from home. So, be sure to check out not just your own local, but also neighboring, community colleges.
I graduated near the top of my high school class in '02, and I was on the fast-track to heading to one of the most popular state schools, but in the end I decided to stay home and go to my community college -- for free. I probably saved $40-$50k for those two years of college by staying home.
On top of that, one of the universities that accepted me out of high school ended up offering me MORE scholarship money as a transfer student. In the end, four years of college cost me about $15k (well, tuition only), and I ended up with a bachelor's from a well-respected private school.
I had both positive and negative experiences at my community college. Sometimes it did feel like I was in "extended high school," but I stayed focused and stayed away from the "wandering" students who were still working on their associate's...five years and counting.
Funny thing is...I ended up getting my master's from Northwestern, and the quality of some of the graduate courses I took there were as bad or worse than what I experienced at the community college!
(That's another important note -- students shouldn't feel like they're limiting their academic prospects by starting out at a community college. There were several nights in which I thought I had committed self-sabotage by starting out with an associate's.)
I totally agree with the above post, # 98. For those of you judging others, think about what would happen if you lost your job. If you have a job, be thankful. Your future of whether or not you have a job depends on others. You are dependent on your employer to run the business succesfully. If your employer fails, so do you. If you happen to work in an industry that is so far immune to the economy, then be grateful. Most people in the unemployment lines are where they are through no fault of their own. We were out there working and making a living just like you, but we either worked in an industry that was the first to be hit or we worked for companies that the big shots were not being frugal, either way, it was out of our hands, just like your job. Remember, you work FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Your future is in their hands. You could be a one decision away from being where we are. It`s up to your employer.
If you are interested in a 4 year degree- forget the myth that your classes will transfer from the community college to the 4 year university. I have seen many many friends and family spend 6+ years at comm college, only to repeat those classes once they got to a "real" university. Save your time and money over the long run by going straight to a 4 year university. That is what I did! I completed college and medical school in the same amount of time my best friend finished a degree from a community college to become a preschool teacher!
Although the costs of all the little things you don't need add up to a lot of pain for the average household, I don't think those are the expenses that kill you. They keep you from getting ahead (by sucking up money that could have been saved), but when hard times come you can just cut them out of your spending.
The expenses that killl you are the things that you can barely afford, but that you simply have to have: medical care when you're sick, a car to get to work, a safe place to live. Those things are what end up killing your finances--because any expense that you can barely afford can quickly become unaffordable if there's an unexpected expense or a little glitch in income.
@tfan:
I think that's a good point, although I think it's worth dividing the idea of practicality from the idea of fairness.
A lot of modern frugality is only possible because there are so many unfrugal people around us. When others are buying loads of stuff that they don't need, they inevitably end up having to get rid of the previous loads of stuff they didn't need--simply to make room. That means that there's lots of useful stuff available cheap or free. A lot of it will be stuff you don't need, but mixed in there is the occasional necessary item.
If everyone lived a more frugal life, there'd be a lot less of that cheap and free stuff around.
As far as fairness goes, though, I'm inclined to disagree. Even among the people trying to get by without money, most of them have some contact with the money economy--so they're paying sales taxes and all those fees tacked onto their utility bills. If they drive they're paying fuel taxes and registration fees. And even if they don't, they're still paying them indirectly when they chip in for gas when a friend gives them a ride or when they travel on public transit. If they have any earned income at all they're paying social security taxes and the like.
But even those few people who actually succeed in avoiding the money economy altogether are still contributing. How else are you getting by through barter and sharing and doing for yourself except by contributing things others need? Even if everyone lived this way, it could work--with people taking care of friends and neighbors (and doctors bartering their services just like everyone else).
Yeah, I agree with tfan. Health care is a social issue. Someone has to pick up the pieces and it's really not honorable to force others to cover that if you're able to yourself. I love the sentiment of living off the grid, but it's really not fair in our current situation.
you had a very wise mother.
I think about the balance between time and money constantly. This piece is timely because right now there are so many articles about saving money by selling your things, cooking more, gardening, etc. In my business, I help people downsize and organize before moving and one area where people spend hours and hours is trying to sell things that aren't worth very much.
Thank for you reminding people about the value and importance of their time!
1) What materials and inputs you use
2) The style of gardening you follow
3) Where you live
4) The benefits that you can't put a specific number on (healthier, more vitamin-rich food, exercise, time outdoors, improving the environment via better soil quality, and more)
5) Correctly analyzing startup costs and annual benefits and dividing up among future years of gardening.
In most of this country, our great-great grandfathers and grandmothers gardened very economically. They didn't use nice raised beds, soaker hoses, seedlings from the local nursery, or seedstarters with fluorescent lights.
So much of what we do today isn't necessary to grow food for the family. Sure, alot of it makes things easier, in terms of quality, how much yield we get, and how much time we have to spend.
In my part of the country the minimum one needs is a cheap fence around the area, tools to prepare or weed the soil, seeds, and some way to water when necessary. (One also needs time to learn, like about recycling food waste through compost back to the garden to cut down on inputs, or about storage, freezing, and canning).
Having said that, I do spend money on seed-starting equipment, soaker hoses, good fencing, a few tools, and a few good books. It frees up my valuable time for other things.
I am fascinated by the subject of ethnic stereotypes and frugality.
I grew up in an upper middle class white family, as I was continually being reminded by my father, who grew up very poor. There was a big difference in his and my attitudes towards money and consumption. He did not take money for granted, but was very flashy and status-conscious. I did take money for granted (I assumed it would just always be available to me somehow), but have always been relatively unconcerned about material posessions.
It wasn't until I grew up and moved to an African-American neighborhood in a big city that I understood my father, which I found amusing; my Dad pretty much embodied the stereotype you describe, although he is white.
I now live in a middle class neighborhood which is about half white and half black, the blacks having been here for decades, the whites only in the last five or six; and what I see is my black neighbors are all like the dad in Everybody Hates Chris - they can squeeze a ton of value out of every last cent.
Also: "An August 2007 study...found anecdotal evidence" lol
Great article! I think as we all start "growing up", we really do have to think more and more about budgeting our time. I actually wrote a post recently about tools people can use to manage their time: http://independentbeginnings.com/2009/04/three-time-management-tools-for...
The article is directed towards college students, but the tools can be used by everyone! They are a great way to get started with time budgeting.
Since I have started working at home a lot doing freelancing, I have found this need to budget my time to be even more important. I'll find myself sitting down to write an article and drifting into reading blogs; or I'll find myself watching a TV show and getting sucked into writing an article during the commercial. While I love the freedom of being able to work when I want, if I don't carefully budget my time I find that home drifts into work and vice versa and it ends up taking much longer than necessary to get things done.
I think it is important to have balance and make sure you have money for fun and money for bills. If you run short on money cut back in places or try to make money from home to increase your income.
I tried fixing the http:// and that didn't bring up the article, either.
Unlike America, Spain has a social safety net - universal healthcare access etc. If you live without money over there, you would be taking advantage of the people who work and pay taxes that pays for your healthcare. Living without money would only be fair if you didn't use any of the common resources that are paid for with taxes.
There are definitely horrible excesses with capitalism, but if everyone tried to live sin dinero, there would be nothing to fund medical advances and other things that benefit society. It would be like living in the middle ages again. Removing yourself from the money economy really only works if most everybody else stays in so I don't really see anything to feel smug about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5HqFSlfVKE
Hello everyone,
I posted this same basic comment, on the "great deals" forum, but I think it's definitely worth posting here as well...
If you've had good experiences with discount plans (like I have), you may want to look at this website I found called, http://www.helpfulbenefits.com. It contains three different "benefit packages" and one if them is a Health Benefits package. It basically combines 5 different health benefit plans for about $17/month...which included my entire family. The plan contains discounts with prescriptions, vision care (through Coast-to-Coast), dental care (through Aetna Dental Access), chiropractic care, and some program called Teladoc (which you can call and talk live to a doctor - no charge).
The website also has benefit packages for other "non-health related" things like LifeLock and Legal Care Direct. All the packages seem to be around $15/month, and they include your immediate family. Anyway, great experiences all the way around, and great bang for your buck.
-Jeremy
If you've had good experiences with discount plans (like I have), you may want to look at this website I found called, http://www.helpfulbenefits.com. It contains three different "benefit packages" and one if them is a Health Benefits package. It basically combines 5 different health benefit plans for about $17/month...which included my entire family. The plan contains discounts with prescriptions, vision care (through Coast-to-Coast), dental care (through Aetna Dental Access), chiropractic care, and some program called Teladoc (which you can call and talk live to a doctor - no charge).
The website also has benefit packages for other "non-health related" things like LifeLock and Legal Care Direct. All the packages seem to be around $15/month, and they include your immediate family. Anyway, great experiences all the way around, and great bang for your buck.
-Jeremy
You can always listen to any of our shows after the original airing date. Just to go the original link (or check out our special player in the side bar of our website.) You can even download the show to listen to later on your MP3 player!
Linsey Knerl
My experience at North Seattle Community College was outstanding. The teachers were very enthusiastic about their work and the smaller class size meant they engaged with their students personally.
A mailing I got from NSCC recently included an interesting fact: Over the past two years, every student who applied to the college's education foundation scholarship program was given money. Obviously this can't hold true everywhere, but you might be surprised at (a) how affordable these schools are and (b) the availability of funding.
I urge you to check out this option. Your life might be changed, too.
Everyone who bought houses recklessly and are not getting squeezed will be saved by everyone else! Collective falling! Should last for 4 years at least right =]
Democrazy Socialism!!
I'm houseless, or rather living in an apt (Btw, I clicked thru your profile, I'm presently @ UC Berk in EECS too )
And well, haven't planned that far in my life =)
Also, I love how great the prior program is doing. I wonder how much the admin costs were...
I got my AA from a Community College, and for my MA degree I was accepted by Columbia University. Community Colleges are great -- most of the college experience depends on the student. I was so grateful and proud of the community college where I started, that I taught for 2 years there. I don't teach at the moment, but I am in the process of getting hired by a community college that recently became a state college. Nice post!
The classes at my county's community college are very good, but they are (almost) all in-class classes. Another county's community college is great and offers online classes (taught by their professors). It only costs me a little bit more to take the other county's classes, but it's great because I can do it from home. So, be sure to check out not just your own local, but also neighboring, community colleges.
Where can I listen to a podcast after the fact? I'm going to be a guest on www.luvchat.com tonight so I won't be able to listen in!
Thanks,
Julia
I graduated near the top of my high school class in '02, and I was on the fast-track to heading to one of the most popular state schools, but in the end I decided to stay home and go to my community college -- for free. I probably saved $40-$50k for those two years of college by staying home.
On top of that, one of the universities that accepted me out of high school ended up offering me MORE scholarship money as a transfer student. In the end, four years of college cost me about $15k (well, tuition only), and I ended up with a bachelor's from a well-respected private school.
I had both positive and negative experiences at my community college. Sometimes it did feel like I was in "extended high school," but I stayed focused and stayed away from the "wandering" students who were still working on their associate's...five years and counting.
Funny thing is...I ended up getting my master's from Northwestern, and the quality of some of the graduate courses I took there were as bad or worse than what I experienced at the community college!
(That's another important note -- students shouldn't feel like they're limiting their academic prospects by starting out at a community college. There were several nights in which I thought I had committed self-sabotage by starting out with an associate's.)
Thanks for the post!
I totally agree with the above post, # 98. For those of you judging others, think about what would happen if you lost your job. If you have a job, be thankful. Your future of whether or not you have a job depends on others. You are dependent on your employer to run the business succesfully. If your employer fails, so do you. If you happen to work in an industry that is so far immune to the economy, then be grateful. Most people in the unemployment lines are where they are through no fault of their own. We were out there working and making a living just like you, but we either worked in an industry that was the first to be hit or we worked for companies that the big shots were not being frugal, either way, it was out of our hands, just like your job. Remember, you work FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Your future is in their hands. You could be a one decision away from being where we are. It`s up to your employer.