It's worth separating quitting making payments as a negotiating tactic versus quitting making payments because you've given up on the idea that you'll stay in that house.
As you rightly indicate, if a loan modification could make the difference--and if you can't get the bank even to come to the negotiating table--then missing a payment might well get the bank's attention.
If you've decided that the house is simply unaffordable (due to lost income, interest rate adjustment, or whatever), then you should probably quit making payments immediately (unless you have substantial equity, despite the drop in home prices). Bank that money (in a different bank than holds your mortgage!)--you're going to need it for things like a security deposit on the apartment you move into after you either manage to sell or else get evicted.
as a faithful wisebread reader I find this post's photo to be inappropriate. You've gotten your reaction from the readers, most don't seem to like it anymore than I do. Please take down the photo or explain it in your post. Next time, depend on your writing to get readers, not sensational/disturbing photos.
We tried to work with our mortgage company last summer, but being as we were current, they didn't want to deal with us. We stopped being able to pay in September, and are going through foreclosure now. I should feel bad, but I don't. Had Wells Fargo listened to our cry for help, neither of us would be in this situation. Their company posted healthy profits last quarter. My family? Hasn't collected a paycheck in a year. Best of luck to you, WF. Enjoy selling our house....
Reward the losers and make them into victims. It's the way now. In a 'fair' world, you'd lose your house and become a renter. Then someone could take advantage of lower prices, move in and make that house into their home.
That's the way it did work and should work. Now, the rules have been changed in the middle of the game.
Yes breast milk is best and before I ever had kids I used to say "i am going to exclusively breastfeed, formula is nasty".. yeah i used to say that all the time... breastfeeding was best and that was what I was going to do, no doubt about it. that was until I had my first child... and I had an emergency C-section.. and then my heart went crazy and I had to be sent to a cardiac unit and did not get to see my daughter for several hours. When I finally got back to the OB unit I was so exhausted and had a lot of medications in my system, including heart medications and I just let them give my daughter formula, it was great for my husband, he got to instantly bond with her because he took care of her that first night in the hospital. On our way home from the hospital we had to stop and buy some formula and when I got home the guilt was overwhelming. When my milk came in a few days later I tried to breastfeed but I just couldn't do it. I pumped a few ounces here and there but the milk just dried up and so my daughter was formula fed and she is very smart, very healthy. So don't go judging people because they don't breastfeed. Now with my second son I got a lactation consultant and desperately tried to breastfeed.. it lasted for two weeks and now we are on formula. Even with professional help I just couldn't get the hang of it, but this time around I have no guilt about giving my child formula. I honestly tried and breastfeeding just doesn't work for me and my child is no less healthy because of it.
We had determined that we were going to have to let our house go last August. After three lay-offs in swift succession, my husband was out of a job again, and our savings was gone, credit cards maxed. We quit paying the mortgage and stayed in the house. We got a few late notices, and then in December we received an "auction date". We THEN were referred to a wonderful realtor (not part of any dodgy scams, just a regular, legitimate realtor) who put our house up for sale. The MOMENT we had a buyer interested in the house, the notices about our foreclosure stopped cold. The house finally closed last week (April 17th) and we are free of the house. Other than the 8 months of not paying the mortgage, we suffered no other harm to our credit.
WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS?
We buy Organic Valley as well... actually a local natural grocery chain here in Portland, New Seasons, carries the same milk as their store organic brand -- a bit cheaper and from the same supplier.
In terms of hormones versus antibiotics versus pasture, I know I don't have all the details. But I can tell you this, compared to Organic Valley, regular milk tastes like ass. We've actually conducted blind taste tests with cheaper milk in our family. The FDA can say what they want (and as far as I'm concerned they will anyway) but if "normal" milk tastes like thin chemically plastic, why would I want it?
I'm with the tightwadder guest above. No need to spend more than $50 on a garden every year, even the first year. Especially if you start your composting the fall before your first spring planting.
A beginner gardener can eat for really, really cheap on a few staple foods - you can dig up most of your yard for potatos and zucchini, put in a few tomato plants, and there you go. If you know or live near gardeners you can probably get everything you need to do that for free, too.
But man is that miserable. There's a reason my mom hates to garden, and it's the 1970s gas-shock recession.
The other way to save money at it is the one I see magazine articles about right now. If you usually spend a lot of money on things like sprouts, cherry tomatos, broccolini or mesclun mix - those are all easy, fast, low-input veggies with really high dollar value (I wouldn't put tomatos in that group because of their water needs.)
Mix the two together, and you can do pretty well for cash savings - add in the opportunity savings (if you used to have a more expensive hobby, or if your kids can be motivated to be self-entertaining with the threat of weeding duty) and you're golden.
But if you hate it, there are a *lot* of more cost-effective ways to spend your time. Food is usually cheap and the times of year when your garden would have the most yield are the times when food is cheapest.
about Fred's point about mastitis - my understanding was that the organic standards don't allow for generalized antibiotic use to promote growth, but do allow for treatment of cows that are sick. That's the difference between breeding superbugs and actually supporting minimal animal welfare - it's actually the same standard good pediatricians use for earaches and the flu.
But when I tried to look on the 'net to make sure I was right about organic practice instead of just the wording of the standards. I found lots of obfuscatory sites and no information I could be sure of. Still, at least the wording of the standards -"no preventative antibiotics" doesn't prevent treating sick animals.
It is hard to balance organic vs. budget. Especially right now. In a month there will be lots of cheap local organic vegetables (some in my yard!) but right now we are very, very, very tired of cabbage, potatos, and beans. At least there are early spinach and pea greens this week.
Thanks for the mention. In addition to the coupon and Cash Back on FatWallet, forums are a wealth of information from savvy shoppers and are equipped with convenient keyword and category alerts as well.
I have been challenged by some online sewing friends to recycle something old into somethign new.
I've been looking in Op shops for something to inspire me but so far no luck.
I was about to chuck out my husbands raggedy old pair when I just had a brain wave that I could try to make something out of them! Thank goodness I found this page and found so many good ideas.
I think I'll have enough to make a bag (I have made lots of bags from new fabric before so it should be a piece of cake) and cos they were his jeans, I'll make him a stubbie holder. he will love that :)
Milk is definitely much more expensive here where I live if you get organic. One of the things that surprises me is how many people worry about buying organic this and that, but don't breastfeed their kids. They give them formula, which is way worse and full of chemicals than breastmilk, and some use soy formula, which has natural estrogen in it, which is not what babies need. Hurray to all moms that breastfeed!!
We buy hormone free milk from a nearby dairy that sells in some of the grocery stores. They package in glass bottles and it is a small family operation. The milk also tastes great.
We had been using organic from an organic company over in Iowa but we had a couple of bottles that were bad right from the store and then they had a recall due to not getting milk pasturized right. It also cost quite a bit more than the hormone free in glass bottles.
I found Sam's mention that hormone laced milk makes him sick. I can't drink it either, it makes my throat itch.
We are extremely lucky here. There is a small-scale dairy farm in a neighboring county who sells direct. He even makes a delivery run to the two nearby counties every other week.
The only drawback is that skim milk is not offered.
And the poster above is right about Organic Valley - great products.
i buy organic valley milk from whole foods. i live in ny metro new jersey, and wf is actually pretty convenient to me. according to their copy on the carton, they are a cooperative of local dairies (for me it's in vermont). they do not have a us organic label, but the do list "oregon tilth certified organic." i had done some surface research to see if they are the real deal (don't remember where i looked), and they seem legit. if you can find this, it's a good price for organic milk and tastes great. http://organicvalley.coop (i do not work for them in any way). also, a couple of books along the lines of omnivore's dilemma that talk about milk and organic foods are "the real food revival" by sherri brooks vinton and ann clark espuelas and real food by nina planck. :-)
I don't know what it is however, if I drink rBGH milk I get a stomach ache or worse (nothing serious - just out of commission for the afternoon as pain laces through me). I have been told by a stomach doctor it has to to with the enzymes in the milk of cows given hormones.
As far as how to avoid the large brands like Horizon.... I admit we're lucky. We have a Whole Foods on the other side of town so once a month we make the trek there & stock up on the basics. The milk seems to last longer so we can buy about 5-6 gallons that are good for a month & a half. Yes, I know that chain is supposedly evil & in other places exspensive - the one here isn't as long as you buy stuff you cook from scratch with & there's no where else to go for organic. Can ya tell I've been attacked in the past for going there???
I've tried three times to find a local farmer(I'm in the midwest) and I simply can't find one that will do a local sale... it was really frustrating. I foudn one goat dairy but they used all their milk to make soap to sell in the Internet & they didn't want to mess with bottles even though I offered to filter the milk myself (I grew up in a dairy).
To avoid the big brands you could try posting on Criags list to see if anyone knows of anywhere(like a local farmer who doesn't advertise)... there's a farmers market here 3 months out of the year, I'm hoping maybe to find a source for organic milk & meat this year. I've been trying for four or five years now.
As far as why add hormones & such if there's no milk shortage??? Govt subsidies! Just like if you grow more of a certain type of grain you get more $, the same goes for milk. The more milk produced the more the farmer gets & it's not linked at all to supply & demand thanks to our govt.
So Spring means one thing-spending more time outside (tending the garden, chopping wood, and airing out the house). Not as much time to surf the web, but such is the life in the country. Thanks, however, for the advice and tips.
It's impressive how hard California is being hit, but that always seems to be the case. Whether things are good or bad, the Golden State seems to be at the forefront. One thing that California seems to excel at is this notion of commuter culture and spending huge amounts of time stuck in traffic trying to get from point A to B. It's a horrible way to live, but the cost of owning a piece of the American Dream: a house with a yard. I am not familiar with a lot of the towns you mention, but I knew a number of people who bought houses along with the two hour commutes (one way) in the neighboring towns outside of LA. At some point I wonder if people are not better off just renting closer by rather than buying. More like the New York City model, it all boils down to location.
Great points about milk. A touchy issue, but we've found that we're much more picky about what we feed our kids, under the assumption that we adults are poisoned beyond the point of redemption so we can eat whatever we want. But kids have a clean slate, so why not get them started on the right foot?
Antibiotics are a touchy issue. The problem is, cows get mastitis, it's a fact of nature that every mom who breastfeeds can relate to. When they get it, the usual course of treatment is to give them antibiotics, the same as they do for humans. The problem is, once they do that, the milk is no longer organic. To aggravate the situation, antibiotics also, for whatever reason, make the cows produce more milk. They are also used, as Michael Pollan points out (great book, BTW), to compensate cows for their poor diets. I.e., when cows are fed diets they weren't meant to eat, they get sick, and they pump them up with antibiotics. So now we have cows that are given tons of antibiotics for reasons other than what they were meant for, and that's not the kind of milk you want to give your kids.
What we also have a great deal of concern for are hormones. The reason to give rBGH is sketchy, because my understanding is that there is NOT a shortage of milk out there, so there is no reason to inject cows with growh hormones to produce more milk. Whatever the reason, milk from cows with growth hormones makes me wonder what effect it might have on kids. We already know that government organizations will alter what they say to placate big industry, or on the flip side, not offend. Just look at the evolution of the food pyramid as an example of this. So we can't count on the FDA to always look out for our best interest. That is not to say they are useless, they do serve an important function, it's just that in this case, it is up to the consumer to know.
The question is, how does it affect kids? With the increasing incidence of precocious puberty, especially in girls, it worries me.
So for these reasons, we drink local milk, not always organic, but from a local processor that we know and trust. Fortunately, living in Vermont, we have access to these things, but if this wasn't the case, then hands down we would buy organic milk. It's just not worth it to us save a few dollars and feed our kids certain things.
Anyway, thanks for the insightful piece. It spoke to me.
Thanks for posting such a good list! After setting up a budget it will help us and others to stay within a budget, since we won't spend more on stuff than we have to. There are also other sites that may help such as http://www.mysimon.com/ where you can comparison shop.
It's worth separating quitting making payments as a negotiating tactic versus quitting making payments because you've given up on the idea that you'll stay in that house.
As you rightly indicate, if a loan modification could make the difference--and if you can't get the bank even to come to the negotiating table--then missing a payment might well get the bank's attention.
If you've decided that the house is simply unaffordable (due to lost income, interest rate adjustment, or whatever), then you should probably quit making payments immediately (unless you have substantial equity, despite the drop in home prices). Bank that money (in a different bank than holds your mortgage!)--you're going to need it for things like a security deposit on the apartment you move into after you either manage to sell or else get evicted.
as a faithful wisebread reader I find this post's photo to be inappropriate. You've gotten your reaction from the readers, most don't seem to like it anymore than I do. Please take down the photo or explain it in your post. Next time, depend on your writing to get readers, not sensational/disturbing photos.
YES!!!
Demand action. Death to traitors. Confiscate the bankers' loot.
We tried to work with our mortgage company last summer, but being as we were current, they didn't want to deal with us. We stopped being able to pay in September, and are going through foreclosure now. I should feel bad, but I don't. Had Wells Fargo listened to our cry for help, neither of us would be in this situation. Their company posted healthy profits last quarter. My family? Hasn't collected a paycheck in a year. Best of luck to you, WF. Enjoy selling our house....
Reward the losers and make them into victims. It's the way now. In a 'fair' world, you'd lose your house and become a renter. Then someone could take advantage of lower prices, move in and make that house into their home.
That's the way it did work and should work. Now, the rules have been changed in the middle of the game.
This is going to end very badly.
Yes breast milk is best and before I ever had kids I used to say "i am going to exclusively breastfeed, formula is nasty".. yeah i used to say that all the time... breastfeeding was best and that was what I was going to do, no doubt about it. that was until I had my first child... and I had an emergency C-section.. and then my heart went crazy and I had to be sent to a cardiac unit and did not get to see my daughter for several hours. When I finally got back to the OB unit I was so exhausted and had a lot of medications in my system, including heart medications and I just let them give my daughter formula, it was great for my husband, he got to instantly bond with her because he took care of her that first night in the hospital. On our way home from the hospital we had to stop and buy some formula and when I got home the guilt was overwhelming. When my milk came in a few days later I tried to breastfeed but I just couldn't do it. I pumped a few ounces here and there but the milk just dried up and so my daughter was formula fed and she is very smart, very healthy. So don't go judging people because they don't breastfeed. Now with my second son I got a lactation consultant and desperately tried to breastfeed.. it lasted for two weeks and now we are on formula. Even with professional help I just couldn't get the hang of it, but this time around I have no guilt about giving my child formula. I honestly tried and breastfeeding just doesn't work for me and my child is no less healthy because of it.
We had determined that we were going to have to let our house go last August. After three lay-offs in swift succession, my husband was out of a job again, and our savings was gone, credit cards maxed. We quit paying the mortgage and stayed in the house. We got a few late notices, and then in December we received an "auction date". We THEN were referred to a wonderful realtor (not part of any dodgy scams, just a regular, legitimate realtor) who put our house up for sale. The MOMENT we had a buyer interested in the house, the notices about our foreclosure stopped cold. The house finally closed last week (April 17th) and we are free of the house. Other than the 8 months of not paying the mortgage, we suffered no other harm to our credit.
WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS?
We buy Organic Valley as well... actually a local natural grocery chain here in Portland, New Seasons, carries the same milk as their store organic brand -- a bit cheaper and from the same supplier.
In terms of hormones versus antibiotics versus pasture, I know I don't have all the details. But I can tell you this, compared to Organic Valley, regular milk tastes like ass. We've actually conducted blind taste tests with cheaper milk in our family. The FDA can say what they want (and as far as I'm concerned they will anyway) but if "normal" milk tastes like thin chemically plastic, why would I want it?
I'm with the tightwadder guest above. No need to spend more than $50 on a garden every year, even the first year. Especially if you start your composting the fall before your first spring planting.
A beginner gardener can eat for really, really cheap on a few staple foods - you can dig up most of your yard for potatos and zucchini, put in a few tomato plants, and there you go. If you know or live near gardeners you can probably get everything you need to do that for free, too.
But man is that miserable. There's a reason my mom hates to garden, and it's the 1970s gas-shock recession.
The other way to save money at it is the one I see magazine articles about right now. If you usually spend a lot of money on things like sprouts, cherry tomatos, broccolini or mesclun mix - those are all easy, fast, low-input veggies with really high dollar value (I wouldn't put tomatos in that group because of their water needs.)
Mix the two together, and you can do pretty well for cash savings - add in the opportunity savings (if you used to have a more expensive hobby, or if your kids can be motivated to be self-entertaining with the threat of weeding duty) and you're golden.
But if you hate it, there are a *lot* of more cost-effective ways to spend your time. Food is usually cheap and the times of year when your garden would have the most yield are the times when food is cheapest.
about Fred's point about mastitis - my understanding was that the organic standards don't allow for generalized antibiotic use to promote growth, but do allow for treatment of cows that are sick. That's the difference between breeding superbugs and actually supporting minimal animal welfare - it's actually the same standard good pediatricians use for earaches and the flu.
But when I tried to look on the 'net to make sure I was right about organic practice instead of just the wording of the standards. I found lots of obfuscatory sites and no information I could be sure of. Still, at least the wording of the standards -"no preventative antibiotics" doesn't prevent treating sick animals.
It is hard to balance organic vs. budget. Especially right now. In a month there will be lots of cheap local organic vegetables (some in my yard!) but right now we are very, very, very tired of cabbage, potatos, and beans. At least there are early spinach and pea greens this week.
Thanks for the mention. In addition to the coupon and Cash Back on FatWallet, forums are a wealth of information from savvy shoppers and are equipped with convenient keyword and category alerts as well.
Thanks again for the mention.
Laura Pagles
FatWallet.com
Thanks for the link, great roundup!
Thanks for the comments and additional knowledge-sharing, I appreciate the encouragement and helping each other out!
Just wanted to share I noticed Live.com's eBay cashback is BACK, appears to be up to 14%. We live in exciting, dealhunting times. :D
I have been challenged by some online sewing friends to recycle something old into somethign new.
I've been looking in Op shops for something to inspire me but so far no luck.
I was about to chuck out my husbands raggedy old pair when I just had a brain wave that I could try to make something out of them! Thank goodness I found this page and found so many good ideas.
I think I'll have enough to make a bag (I have made lots of bags from new fabric before so it should be a piece of cake) and cos they were his jeans, I'll make him a stubbie holder. he will love that :)
Cheers!
Amanda
Milk is definitely much more expensive here where I live if you get organic. One of the things that surprises me is how many people worry about buying organic this and that, but don't breastfeed their kids. They give them formula, which is way worse and full of chemicals than breastmilk, and some use soy formula, which has natural estrogen in it, which is not what babies need. Hurray to all moms that breastfeed!!
Great list of deal sites! There are so many good ones, it's hard to narrow it down. I love Slickdeals.net, that site has helped me the most by far!
We buy hormone free milk from a nearby dairy that sells in some of the grocery stores. They package in glass bottles and it is a small family operation. The milk also tastes great.
We had been using organic from an organic company over in Iowa but we had a couple of bottles that were bad right from the store and then they had a recall due to not getting milk pasturized right. It also cost quite a bit more than the hormone free in glass bottles.
I found Sam's mention that hormone laced milk makes him sick. I can't drink it either, it makes my throat itch.
I simply have lost all faith in the FDA.
We are extremely lucky here. There is a small-scale dairy farm in a neighboring county who sells direct. He even makes a delivery run to the two nearby counties every other week.
The only drawback is that skim milk is not offered.
And the poster above is right about Organic Valley - great products.
Good job including the bit on recycling!
i buy organic valley milk from whole foods. i live in ny metro new jersey, and wf is actually pretty convenient to me. according to their copy on the carton, they are a cooperative of local dairies (for me it's in vermont). they do not have a us organic label, but the do list "oregon tilth certified organic." i had done some surface research to see if they are the real deal (don't remember where i looked), and they seem legit. if you can find this, it's a good price for organic milk and tastes great. http://organicvalley.coop (i do not work for them in any way). also, a couple of books along the lines of omnivore's dilemma that talk about milk and organic foods are "the real food revival" by sherri brooks vinton and ann clark espuelas and real food by nina planck. :-)
I don't know what it is however, if I drink rBGH milk I get a stomach ache or worse (nothing serious - just out of commission for the afternoon as pain laces through me). I have been told by a stomach doctor it has to to with the enzymes in the milk of cows given hormones.
As far as how to avoid the large brands like Horizon.... I admit we're lucky. We have a Whole Foods on the other side of town so once a month we make the trek there & stock up on the basics. The milk seems to last longer so we can buy about 5-6 gallons that are good for a month & a half. Yes, I know that chain is supposedly evil & in other places exspensive - the one here isn't as long as you buy stuff you cook from scratch with & there's no where else to go for organic. Can ya tell I've been attacked in the past for going there???
I've tried three times to find a local farmer(I'm in the midwest) and I simply can't find one that will do a local sale... it was really frustrating. I foudn one goat dairy but they used all their milk to make soap to sell in the Internet & they didn't want to mess with bottles even though I offered to filter the milk myself (I grew up in a dairy).
To avoid the big brands you could try posting on Criags list to see if anyone knows of anywhere(like a local farmer who doesn't advertise)... there's a farmers market here 3 months out of the year, I'm hoping maybe to find a source for organic milk & meat this year. I've been trying for four or five years now.
As far as why add hormones & such if there's no milk shortage??? Govt subsidies! Just like if you grow more of a certain type of grain you get more $, the same goes for milk. The more milk produced the more the farmer gets & it's not linked at all to supply & demand thanks to our govt.
So Spring means one thing-spending more time outside (tending the garden, chopping wood, and airing out the house). Not as much time to surf the web, but such is the life in the country. Thanks, however, for the advice and tips.
It's impressive how hard California is being hit, but that always seems to be the case. Whether things are good or bad, the Golden State seems to be at the forefront. One thing that California seems to excel at is this notion of commuter culture and spending huge amounts of time stuck in traffic trying to get from point A to B. It's a horrible way to live, but the cost of owning a piece of the American Dream: a house with a yard. I am not familiar with a lot of the towns you mention, but I knew a number of people who bought houses along with the two hour commutes (one way) in the neighboring towns outside of LA. At some point I wonder if people are not better off just renting closer by rather than buying. More like the New York City model, it all boils down to location.
Great points about milk. A touchy issue, but we've found that we're much more picky about what we feed our kids, under the assumption that we adults are poisoned beyond the point of redemption so we can eat whatever we want. But kids have a clean slate, so why not get them started on the right foot?
Antibiotics are a touchy issue. The problem is, cows get mastitis, it's a fact of nature that every mom who breastfeeds can relate to. When they get it, the usual course of treatment is to give them antibiotics, the same as they do for humans. The problem is, once they do that, the milk is no longer organic. To aggravate the situation, antibiotics also, for whatever reason, make the cows produce more milk. They are also used, as Michael Pollan points out (great book, BTW), to compensate cows for their poor diets. I.e., when cows are fed diets they weren't meant to eat, they get sick, and they pump them up with antibiotics. So now we have cows that are given tons of antibiotics for reasons other than what they were meant for, and that's not the kind of milk you want to give your kids.
What we also have a great deal of concern for are hormones. The reason to give rBGH is sketchy, because my understanding is that there is NOT a shortage of milk out there, so there is no reason to inject cows with growh hormones to produce more milk. Whatever the reason, milk from cows with growth hormones makes me wonder what effect it might have on kids. We already know that government organizations will alter what they say to placate big industry, or on the flip side, not offend. Just look at the evolution of the food pyramid as an example of this. So we can't count on the FDA to always look out for our best interest. That is not to say they are useless, they do serve an important function, it's just that in this case, it is up to the consumer to know.
The question is, how does it affect kids? With the increasing incidence of precocious puberty, especially in girls, it worries me.
So for these reasons, we drink local milk, not always organic, but from a local processor that we know and trust. Fortunately, living in Vermont, we have access to these things, but if this wasn't the case, then hands down we would buy organic milk. It's just not worth it to us save a few dollars and feed our kids certain things.
Anyway, thanks for the insightful piece. It spoke to me.
Thanks for posting such a good list! After setting up a budget it will help us and others to stay within a budget, since we won't spend more on stuff than we have to. There are also other sites that may help such as http://www.mysimon.com/ where you can comparison shop.