@Herba - Thanks for your comment. I think that if a ban were put on styrofoam, that would be an improvement, and of little detriment. I'm still not a fan of the waste factor of the cardboard cups (because many of them don't appear to be just paper-based), but reducing our consumption and finding more ecological materials to consume is a huge step in the right direction.
@DebraC - Absolutely! I recently took a 2 week excursion from my temporary base and was surprised by how much stuff I actually brought in comparison to my last 6 week trip. Once you are packed for 2 weeks, you're packed for 2 months - or beyond. (As long as you're somewhat strategic in your packing)!
Here's an excerpt from 'The Moral Compass of the American Lawyer' by Richard Zitrin) that is quite enlightening:
"In 1991, Cumberland (Ala.) law professor William Ross surveyed 280 lawyers in private practice and 80 who worked in-house for companies. The results were shocking.
Seven out of eight practicing lawyers said that it was ethical to bill a client for "recycled" work originally done for another client.
Half said they had billed two different clients for work performed during the same time period, such as dictating a memo for one client while traveling for another.
Just as shocking were what lawyers concluded about their colleagues' billing practices: 55% said that lawyers occasionally or frequently "pad" their hours; 64% said they were personally aware of lawyers who had padded their bills."
This article was disappointing on many levels. I expected more proactive suggestions about how to avoid the pitfalls described from a Wise Bread article.
Don't just tell me what my attorney won't tell me, help me overcome it please. How do I, as a consumer of legal services, dispute a fee? How do I recognize when I'm being over-charged or otherwise taken advantage of by a less than reputable lawyer? Do I have to hire the author for this help? Should this article really be labeled as an advertisement?
On a different note, I'm not even a lawyer and this article managed to insult me.
I plan on putting half of my refund towards a $5,000 hospital bill that I have been paying on since November and the other half to help replenish my emergency fund. I exhausted my emergency fund this summer when I was out of work three months due to illness. You never know what is going to happen, so it is always good to keep money back for an emergency. I love Wisebread and related blogs, you have really helped me to begin to live within my means. God bless you all.
I plan on putting half of my refund towards a $5,000 hospital bill that I have been paying on since November and the other half to help replenish my emergency fund. I exhausted my emergency fund this summer when I was out of work three months due to illness. You never know what is going to happen, so it is always good to keep money back for an emergency. I love Wisebread and related blogs, you have really helped me to begin to live within my means. God bless you all.
Me too! I got a 6-pack of CFL bulbs and floodlights for my porch for just a couple of bucks and several liters of apple juice for less than a buck each. Good deals!
It seems the author is backfilling from a misleading title and over-the-top quotations. I called Brodsky a m------n because he is quoted as saying that "most lawyers charge for a completely new document as if it were created from scratch." "Most" lawyers? Check out Brodsky's website. How would he know what real lawyers do? He is one (small) step above LegalZoom. If you look at his list of "services", he is an expert in pretty much every legal area, all by himself. His quote in this article is a nothing more than a self-serving advertising pitch.
Who are you to judge others- Why do you call it greed? This just kinda happened....if you crashed your car and were unable to work from today on......could you pay your perfect mortgage payment SMARTY? Suck on that~
Those are inspiring stories you have. It's always great to hear about positive stories and that even the toughest financial challenges can be overcome.
this site. It give huge deals off of name brand clothing, shoes, accessories, everything, and its constantly getting new things!! You can get amazing deals. : ) You can use my invite if you want to join, since it is member only. http://www.hautelook.com/invite/634230 and this is another site just like hautelook www.ideeli.com/invite/fashionlover1990 . enjoy : ) and happy saving!!
this site. It give huge deals off of name brand clothing, shoes, accessories, everything, and its constantly getting new things!! You can get amazing deals. : ) You can use my invite if you want to join, since it is member only. http://www.hautelook.com/invite/634230 and this is another site just like hautelook www.ideeli.com/invite/fashionlover1990 . enjoy : ) and happy saving!!
I paid my property taxes for the year with my income tax refund. I save throughout the year for this expense, but because my refund was bigger than expected,I was able to leave that money in my savings account.
Here's a quickie example from my own life that I think illustrates what happens on a small scale. If I have extra money, my money to spend as I wish, probably about 50% of it is actually spent on my kids, my family and my husband. My husband on the other hand will spend his extra money on "his" stuff. Sometimes it becomes community/family used items, but usually not.
Now, that's not to say my husband is selfish or only thinks of himself. Our own extra money is just that, our own fund to spend. It's more that I like to spend money on others and it comes more naturally. Maybe it's part of my nurturing tendencies as a woman. Of course, the issue is if this consistently happens, I sometimes find I don't have enough money to meet some minor "needs" for myself. Sure, my husband will say "Well, you didn't have to buy x, y, or z for so-and-so." And that is true. So I have to decided more consciously what I'm giving up for myself to get something for someone else.
Money to live on in the future, during retirement or if God forbid a divorce, is NOT something I want to give up! So, yes, we (as a couple) have had to make sure that we're feeding into our own separate retirement accounts, especially as neither of us have employer sponsored plans.
If anyone else's household is like ours, these women just happen to be the ones spending money on what the whole family is using, including the men. (Mom shops for groceries, Mom takes kids to the doctor and buys prescriptions) Is this adjusted to account for that?
Aaron and I often disagree. For example, he thinks lawyers are capable of building their own websites. Having seen many examples of what happens when lawyers build their own websites, I think 90% or more of lawyers should probably hire a consultant.
The same goes for laypersons creating their own legal documents. Some people have the ability and luck to use what they find online and get it right. Most that I have seen get it wrong, and would benefit from hiring a competent lawyer to make sure their document does what they think it will.
The good news is that hiring a lawyer to review and comment on a document should generally cost about $250, tops. Cheap insurance, especially if you are talking about getting your will, healthcare directive, or pleadings right.
Awesome thoughts Will.
I have found that with any consulting or service provider it is imperative to work on a fixed fee basis. Otherwise the clock is always ticking and the client ends up paying for any downtime or lack of efficiency. It is so much easier to get a fixed fee for a fixed outcome because you know where you are going to end up financially.
I agree with commenter Q. "All you've done is add to the culture of distrust and distaste for a profession that is held to more stringent ethical standards than any other."
I suppose the only support you've given is to recommend that people "DIY" various important documents. At least that way...when people have messed these documents up beyond all repair, a lawyer will be there to pick up the pieces.
@Q -- I'm not saying all attorneys engage in these practices. The first paragraph clearly states "While most lawyers are honest professionals, the legal industry does have its share of rotten apples. From overbilling to downright incompetence, our recent interviews with legal experts revealed 16 dirty secrets bad attorneys don’t want you to know."
@Sam -- The Lawyerist is a great resource. Congratulations on creating such a great publication. Please thank Aaron again for me when you see him. I did an email interview with Aaron, and I'm pretty sure the "you" he referred to was to a lay person. In the email he sent me, he prefaced the quote with the subtitle "Skip the Lawyer."
@Canadian Lawyer -- Thank you for the great info. Your comment is a great post by itself!
@Mr. ToughMoneyLove -- I don't mind criticism of my articles, but please don't call anyone a moron. Regarding #4, I had additional quotes from Alison on the subject: "Re Lexis/Westlaw, some background: law firms have been reducing the size of their print libraries for years (providing significant savings in overhead costs-- both real estate and subscriptions) and relying instead on online services. Many law firms pay a flat fee for these online services but charge them to their clients at a per minute rate that is on top of the billing rate for the lawyer or paralegal who is doing the research." A few years ago Alison represented pro bono a group of clients challenging Lexis/Westlaw fees from a large firm (a top 40 firm, I won't mention the name here).
@Kim -- You (and Canadian Lawyer) are right that many legal fields are so complicated that it is not advisable to go without an attorney. As Aaron specified in his quote, he is referring to "basic legal tasks."
If you believe in how the market operates, then the comment about the high billing for the heck of it is false. If anyone could be an attorney, they would be, or people would DIY, there wouldn't be enough work for attorneys, and their prices would drop in competition, as would the cost of law school. As an attorney, I have seen the bad apples, and the bad apples do most of these things. But honestly, how many bad apples are there? True copies & faxes are billed extremely high, but you could've copied your personal documents yourself. Do you know how long it takes to do copying to answer an interrogatory on a "simple" construction case? I am also required by the State to put everything in writing with extensive disclaimers, as opposed to calling you, so that should be worth something. And it costs me thousands to keep up with state requirements and continuing education.
DIY for anything beyond a 1 page contract ends in abject failure. You admitted that attorneys ARE necessary right in your article: attorneys have niches, and thus have to refer you to others. The very reason niches exist is that it is so damn complicated, and thus is not a DIY activity.
This article is so ridden with myths, errors and dubious generalizations that the author should be sued for journalism malpractice. Let's start with point #4. What is written there as fact is 100% unethical in every jurisdiction. Lawyers may only pass through actual costs. Some may cheat but to write as if this is commonplace is false and nothing more than linkbait. Same for point #2. The author and that moron Brodsky might charge their rate for "work" done by peons but ethical lawyers cannot and do not do this.
Next time, contact some real lawyers, not just hacks and whiners.
I think every time I interact with a lawyer, I experienced all 16 things. The bad news: there is very little you can do about any one of these things. What recourse do clients have when a lawyer does not perform well? How do you measure performance anyway? - Thanks for writing such a bold post!
@Herba - Thanks for your comment. I think that if a ban were put on styrofoam, that would be an improvement, and of little detriment. I'm still not a fan of the waste factor of the cardboard cups (because many of them don't appear to be just paper-based), but reducing our consumption and finding more ecological materials to consume is a huge step in the right direction.
@DebraC - Absolutely! I recently took a 2 week excursion from my temporary base and was surprised by how much stuff I actually brought in comparison to my last 6 week trip. Once you are packed for 2 weeks, you're packed for 2 months - or beyond. (As long as you're somewhat strategic in your packing)!
Here's an excerpt from 'The Moral Compass of the American Lawyer' by Richard Zitrin) that is quite enlightening:
"In 1991, Cumberland (Ala.) law professor William Ross surveyed 280 lawyers in private practice and 80 who worked in-house for companies. The results were shocking.
Seven out of eight practicing lawyers said that it was ethical to bill a client for "recycled" work originally done for another client.
Half said they had billed two different clients for work performed during the same time period, such as dictating a memo for one client while traveling for another.
Just as shocking were what lawyers concluded about their colleagues' billing practices: 55% said that lawyers occasionally or frequently "pad" their hours; 64% said they were personally aware of lawyers who had padded their bills."
This article was disappointing on many levels. I expected more proactive suggestions about how to avoid the pitfalls described from a Wise Bread article.
Don't just tell me what my attorney won't tell me, help me overcome it please. How do I, as a consumer of legal services, dispute a fee? How do I recognize when I'm being over-charged or otherwise taken advantage of by a less than reputable lawyer? Do I have to hire the author for this help? Should this article really be labeled as an advertisement?
On a different note, I'm not even a lawyer and this article managed to insult me.
I plan on putting half of my refund towards a $5,000 hospital bill that I have been paying on since November and the other half to help replenish my emergency fund. I exhausted my emergency fund this summer when I was out of work three months due to illness. You never know what is going to happen, so it is always good to keep money back for an emergency. I love Wisebread and related blogs, you have really helped me to begin to live within my means. God bless you all.
I plan on putting half of my refund towards a $5,000 hospital bill that I have been paying on since November and the other half to help replenish my emergency fund. I exhausted my emergency fund this summer when I was out of work three months due to illness. You never know what is going to happen, so it is always good to keep money back for an emergency. I love Wisebread and related blogs, you have really helped me to begin to live within my means. God bless you all.
Me too! I got a 6-pack of CFL bulbs and floodlights for my porch for just a couple of bucks and several liters of apple juice for less than a buck each. Good deals!
Linsey Knerl
It seems the author is backfilling from a misleading title and over-the-top quotations. I called Brodsky a m------n because he is quoted as saying that "most lawyers charge for a completely new document as if it were created from scratch." "Most" lawyers? Check out Brodsky's website. How would he know what real lawyers do? He is one (small) step above LegalZoom. If you look at his list of "services", he is an expert in pretty much every legal area, all by himself. His quote in this article is a nothing more than a self-serving advertising pitch.
Who are you to judge others- Why do you call it greed? This just kinda happened....if you crashed your car and were unable to work from today on......could you pay your perfect mortgage payment SMARTY? Suck on that~
Everyone,
Those are inspiring stories you have. It's always great to hear about positive stories and that even the toughest financial challenges can be overcome.
SVB @ The Digerati Life
this site. It give huge deals off of name brand clothing, shoes, accessories, everything, and its constantly getting new things!! You can get amazing deals. : ) You can use my invite if you want to join, since it is member only. http://www.hautelook.com/invite/634230 and this is another site just like hautelook www.ideeli.com/invite/fashionlover1990 . enjoy : ) and happy saving!!
this site. It give huge deals off of name brand clothing, shoes, accessories, everything, and its constantly getting new things!! You can get amazing deals. : ) You can use my invite if you want to join, since it is member only. http://www.hautelook.com/invite/634230 and this is another site just like hautelook www.ideeli.com/invite/fashionlover1990 . enjoy : ) and happy saving!!
Definitely paying off debts!!!
I paid my property taxes for the year with my income tax refund. I save throughout the year for this expense, but because my refund was bigger than expected,I was able to leave that money in my savings account.
Here's a quickie example from my own life that I think illustrates what happens on a small scale. If I have extra money, my money to spend as I wish, probably about 50% of it is actually spent on my kids, my family and my husband. My husband on the other hand will spend his extra money on "his" stuff. Sometimes it becomes community/family used items, but usually not.
Now, that's not to say my husband is selfish or only thinks of himself. Our own extra money is just that, our own fund to spend. It's more that I like to spend money on others and it comes more naturally. Maybe it's part of my nurturing tendencies as a woman. Of course, the issue is if this consistently happens, I sometimes find I don't have enough money to meet some minor "needs" for myself. Sure, my husband will say "Well, you didn't have to buy x, y, or z for so-and-so." And that is true. So I have to decided more consciously what I'm giving up for myself to get something for someone else.
Money to live on in the future, during retirement or if God forbid a divorce, is NOT something I want to give up! So, yes, we (as a couple) have had to make sure that we're feeding into our own separate retirement accounts, especially as neither of us have employer sponsored plans.
I am totally intrigued by the idea of building a solar panel. How good do you have to be at soldering though?
If anyone else's household is like ours, these women just happen to be the ones spending money on what the whole family is using, including the men. (Mom shops for groceries, Mom takes kids to the doctor and buys prescriptions) Is this adjusted to account for that?
Aaron and I often disagree. For example, he thinks lawyers are capable of building their own websites. Having seen many examples of what happens when lawyers build their own websites, I think 90% or more of lawyers should probably hire a consultant.
The same goes for laypersons creating their own legal documents. Some people have the ability and luck to use what they find online and get it right. Most that I have seen get it wrong, and would benefit from hiring a competent lawyer to make sure their document does what they think it will.
The good news is that hiring a lawyer to review and comment on a document should generally cost about $250, tops. Cheap insurance, especially if you are talking about getting your will, healthcare directive, or pleadings right.
Awesome thoughts Will.
I have found that with any consulting or service provider it is imperative to work on a fixed fee basis. Otherwise the clock is always ticking and the client ends up paying for any downtime or lack of efficiency. It is so much easier to get a fixed fee for a fixed outcome because you know where you are going to end up financially.
I agree with commenter Q. "All you've done is add to the culture of distrust and distaste for a profession that is held to more stringent ethical standards than any other."
I suppose the only support you've given is to recommend that people "DIY" various important documents. At least that way...when people have messed these documents up beyond all repair, a lawyer will be there to pick up the pieces.
@Q -- I'm not saying all attorneys engage in these practices. The first paragraph clearly states "While most lawyers are honest professionals, the legal industry does have its share of rotten apples. From overbilling to downright incompetence, our recent interviews with legal experts revealed 16 dirty secrets bad attorneys don’t want you to know."
@Sam -- The Lawyerist is a great resource. Congratulations on creating such a great publication. Please thank Aaron again for me when you see him. I did an email interview with Aaron, and I'm pretty sure the "you" he referred to was to a lay person. In the email he sent me, he prefaced the quote with the subtitle "Skip the Lawyer."
@Canadian Lawyer -- Thank you for the great info. Your comment is a great post by itself!
@Mr. ToughMoneyLove -- I don't mind criticism of my articles, but please don't call anyone a moron. Regarding #4, I had additional quotes from Alison on the subject: "Re Lexis/Westlaw, some background: law firms have been reducing the size of their print libraries for years (providing significant savings in overhead costs-- both real estate and subscriptions) and relying instead on online services. Many law firms pay a flat fee for these online services but charge them to their clients at a per minute rate that is on top of the billing rate for the lawyer or paralegal who is doing the research." A few years ago Alison represented pro bono a group of clients challenging Lexis/Westlaw fees from a large firm (a top 40 firm, I won't mention the name here).
@Kim -- You (and Canadian Lawyer) are right that many legal fields are so complicated that it is not advisable to go without an attorney. As Aaron specified in his quote, he is referring to "basic legal tasks."
If you believe in how the market operates, then the comment about the high billing for the heck of it is false. If anyone could be an attorney, they would be, or people would DIY, there wouldn't be enough work for attorneys, and their prices would drop in competition, as would the cost of law school. As an attorney, I have seen the bad apples, and the bad apples do most of these things. But honestly, how many bad apples are there? True copies & faxes are billed extremely high, but you could've copied your personal documents yourself. Do you know how long it takes to do copying to answer an interrogatory on a "simple" construction case? I am also required by the State to put everything in writing with extensive disclaimers, as opposed to calling you, so that should be worth something. And it costs me thousands to keep up with state requirements and continuing education.
DIY for anything beyond a 1 page contract ends in abject failure. You admitted that attorneys ARE necessary right in your article: attorneys have niches, and thus have to refer you to others. The very reason niches exist is that it is so damn complicated, and thus is not a DIY activity.
Ridiculous article.
I compared the results for gulf shores hotels on there and on http://bookit.com/us/alabama/gulf-shores/ and like everyone says, the result are a bit thin. Good effort though!
This article is so ridden with myths, errors and dubious generalizations that the author should be sued for journalism malpractice. Let's start with point #4. What is written there as fact is 100% unethical in every jurisdiction. Lawyers may only pass through actual costs. Some may cheat but to write as if this is commonplace is false and nothing more than linkbait. Same for point #2. The author and that moron Brodsky might charge their rate for "work" done by peons but ethical lawyers cannot and do not do this.
Next time, contact some real lawyers, not just hacks and whiners.
I think every time I interact with a lawyer, I experienced all 16 things. The bad news: there is very little you can do about any one of these things. What recourse do clients have when a lawyer does not perform well? How do you measure performance anyway? - Thanks for writing such a bold post!