We do NOT have a "health care" system in this country, we have a "health insurance" system. I find it rather laughable that folks who defend our current system describe it as "health care" when it is a for profit insurance.
You can delude yourselves for now if you are young, healthy, employed and never had to dip into Big Insurance pockets. However, once something does go wrong you will see how gracious our system is to the sick.
The best solution is single payer. We would have the exact same system we have now except the government pays for it. Simple...that is why it hasn't succeeded, yet.
So Marc, why are you still here? You're right, every person who doesn't have a job giving them a full work-week and healthcare coverage must be a thug or a slutty mom. /sarcasm
Should we go ahead and privative police coverage, fire protection, and military defense as well? I mean, according to your logic we should just let everyone suffer and/or die if they can't individually afford them.
I'm afraid you'll just have to continue sitting in your home and remaining terrified and red-faced that some of your tax dollars might just end up saving the life of someone who just doesn't deserve it quite as much as you.
I've been doing this with dry-roasted peanuts for a few years now. I didn't think to add honey - what a great idea.
I find that it takes slightly less than 2 containers of peanuts to fill up the container with peanut butter. I store my peanut butter in the fridge to keep it from separating.
You must have awesome health care coverage. two years ago I had to pay around $3000 for my baby to be born... and the bills to the insurance company were higher than what you quoted too. Its almost pointless for me to have health coverage now because i have to pay $1000 out of my own pocket before they pay ANYTHING!
One of the years my youngest son was in school ...
I think the only thing he ate was Burger King (where he worked part-time), mooched food from his roommates, and some of mom's home cooking. I don't think he spent a dime on food that year. Crazy Kid!!!!
To some of the commentors: you don't trust the government but you trust a company that's only out for profit? At least you have A say in the government, regardless of how insignificant it MAY seem. After all, a government is only as effective as it's citizens. If you dislike how things are run, start paying attention to your local elections and vote on ALL levels. Pay attention to the legislation that's being debated and stay in contact with your representatives. It matters.
To the author of this post: thank you so much for this article, especially the part about profits and needs. Healthcare is an absolute necessity and it concerns me the way some Americans express their "socialist" concerns. Perhaps this country would be better off if we could learn to care for each other and our neighbors instead of only ourselves.
but why is it so wrong to question it? I agree that the military-industrial complex is a huge problem, right now you have a military that is waging wars for coporate concerns. Money makes the world go around, but take a look at which nation has the happiest people. It sure as hell isn't America, if I recall it's a Scandanavian country with huge taxes. Isn't quality of life better than being rich and miserable?
How about opening up interstate competition between insurance companies? What about reforming the insurance industry? These are better options that putting your trust into the government, and taxing me even more. You want to see government healthcare in action? Look to the shameful way the VA hospitals take care of our servicemen and women. That's government run healthcare. Lesser of two evils? You are clueless. Do some actual research and stop basing your talking points on what Nancy Pelosi says. Reform the insurance industry, reform Medicare and Medicaid, but forcing me to buy this huge tax is the opposite of a free society.
As an American who has lived in Canada, I have to agree completely about the public option. There is nothing to fear about a public option. I got great care in both systems, but the cost of prescription drugs in the US when I didn't have good insurance with drug coverage was prohibitive. A 30-day supply of Prevacid in Canada, even before I had the provincial plan, was $60. In the US, it was $180, so I ordered it online from Mexico for $35. (I couldn't order it from Canada because I couldn't afford the office visit to get a new prescription). The Mexican drugs were fine, BTW. But anyone who says Canadian drugs are unsafe is dead wrong. I'm a nurse and worked in a Canadian eating disorder program. While I did see some long waits to get in to the program, patients were treated on general medical floors while waitng so nobody went without SOME treatment. I think the answer for the US lies somewhere in between these two systems, but the Canadian one is NOT some Glenn-Beck fueled communist nightmare.
Because work isn't free. You are entitled to your personal liberties and that's it. Everything else, you must work for. I don't work my butt off to pay for some lazy thug to go to the doctor. I don't put in 50 hour work weeks so a bunch of illegal aliens can get a flu shot. Personal responsibility. Have any of you socialists ever heard of that? I do not work to support your 5 kids from 5 different unknown fathers. There is plenty of room to improve the system, but forcing me to pay for your lazy a** is Fascism. Take care of yourself.
Am I the only one who thinks that giving $100 to 1000 people would be fair? And that getting $2 would suck when the person next to you gets $10,000? That's how riots start, no?
All of the commenters who don't trust the government - are you saying you trust the insurance companies?
Lesser of two evils - the government at least has to make a good show of serving the public. Insurers answer to investors only - that's not who I want deciding whether I get treatment or not.
YOu are exactly what is wrong with our country. You lack the intelligence to see that Capitalism isn't what has put us in the dire straits and massive debt we find ourselves immersed in. The failed policies of a corrupt government has lead us where we are. When you have Barney Frank telling Fannie May and Freddie Mac that they have to write loans to people who they would normally not, it creates huge problems. When you have a Federal Reserve made up of foreign bankers creating money out of thin air, artificially manipulating interest rates, and hiding their actions from the public, it creates problems. When you allow the military industrial complex to waste billions every week fighting wars we have no business fighting, it creates problems. When you have out of control social programs that reward lack of effort (a welfare entitlement state) combined with an open boarder, it creates problems. Study the facts and analyize them.
I applaud your post. I think you made great points. I agree with all of them.
The only thing that I would add/comment on is that at the very bottom of all of this is personal responsibility. I have no problem with providing health care for all - public, single payer, universal, whatever the proper vernacular is. I understand people become sick of no fault of their own. However, one thing I can't stand is people making poor decisions about their personal health (like overeating and not being physically active) or not investing in their own health at all and everyone else pays. I think that's the core of the anti-health care reform push. And I can understand that. I feel like there needs to be transparancy and visibility into healthcare costs and the cause and effect of personal decisions about health. I don't know how to do that, but I think it's the missing link...
It's something to think about. I understand one of the reasons Europe is so regulatory about products and their environment is precisely because the governments pick up the tab for healthcare. They are more attuned to dangerous, potential cancer and other illness causing products and production outputs.
I am a Registered Nurse. I was born, raised, and educated in Canada, and have lived in the United States for the past 12 years. Your arguments are solid, and I agree wholeheartedly.
I do enjoy working in the United States, but I just cannot understand how any caring, compassionate, civilized society can allow profit and health care to be uttered in the same sentence.
Why is it such a bad thing that there is a gap between rich and poor. Would you rather I take $100 and split it evenly between 100 people, or I take $100,000 and split it unevenly between those same 100 people, such that no one person received less than $2? In the latter case there is huge inequality, but every single person is better off than any given person in the first scenario. That is what we have here. Inequality? Yep. But EVERYONE is better off.
I was born in England and lived there for 28 years and have spent the last 29 Years in the United States. Another advantage of the British system is that when you are unemployed health care coverage continues uninterrupted. Also changing jobs is a lot easier with health care independent of your employer.
However, I still prefer the U.S. system. I do not trust the federal government to run health care. These are the same guys running the Post Office, Social Security, and our budget deficits.
A better way is to keep what works and expand on it. Reform what doesn't work. Millions of people are happy with the current system. It would be nice if our premiums were less (mine are over $500 a month) but I believe it is because there are monopolies that prevent market forces from operating. The way to solve this is not for government to start its own monopoly but to attend to the real cause.
One would think that if health care profits are sky high that other companies would want to enter the market and grab some of the profits. If this is not happening, why not? If Congress had spent time asking this question instead of stupidly trying to change the whole world as we know it, maybe we might have a solution.
But at least government action on health care might bring some benefit as opposed to the mindless cap and trade fiasco Congress embarked on.
Thanks for writing about this. I have family on both sides of the Atlantic; some of those on the other side (all employed with good jobs, BTW) are there because of the health care system comparison (i.e. they get better and more affordable treatment in Europe).
Beyond the important issues you raise, the current US system strikes me as a tremendous drag on our economy. I sat through hours of meetings at one of my employers as the organization negotiated a new health care plan for the coming year (it had provided BCBS, but that got too expensive). The cost of the hours spent on otherwise unproductive activities (i.e., we weren't doing our jobs, just trying to sort out the health care coverage) must have been ridiculous. And of course plenty of people cannot leave jobs or start small businesses because they cannot afford coverage.
Clothes swapping! This is the perfect solution for those who want to change their look and keep it up to date or fresh without having to spend spend spend.
I personally adore what I call 'previously enjoyed' clothing and am constantly extolling the virtues of shopping at thrift and secondhand stores. I have to admit, the swapping concept is new to me.
Would I swap one of my items of clothing with someone else in exchange for one of theirs? Sure thing. I'd swap my children for a pair of must-have shoes or a to-die-for coat. But then I am the meanest woman on the planet! Thanks for this tip, I can feel a whole new wardrobe coming on :-)
...if capitalism has worked so well, why is this country in such dire straits? Why do we have more debt than any other country in the world? Why are 6500 people applying for 120 jobs at Applebees? Why is the gap between the rich and the poor growing? And let us not forget how many times "Socialism" has been chanted in this country. From public parks and public schools to public transportation, it seems to me that people are very frightened of change. I'm not saying the NHS is perfect, but our current system in America needs an overhaul. Profit is one thing, but denying people a basic right so that someone can make an extra .5% on their stock options is just plain wrong. In my opinion.
I work a good job and thought I had fairly reasonable coverage, but my plan only covers 75% of costs - so when I had a minor outpatient surgery earlier this fall, I was handed nearly $3,000.00 in bills that I was responsible for. My fiancee is a student with no coverage, and his father was recently laid off and can't even get his own private coverage because of a heart condition. I'm sorry, but I'd rather pay higher taxes and take my chances with the government.
It's called capitalism and its worked well for this country for a couple hundred years.
Doctors and insurance companies have a right to make a profit on the services they offer.
If you or the government can all of a sudden decide that Health Care is too important or needed so that it shouldn't be allowed to make a profit then where does it stop?
We all have to eat, maybe farmers shouldn't be allowed to make a profit. We all need power to operate our homes and run our businesses, maybe Utility Companies shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.
What about shelter? Everyone deserves a place to live that's clean and safe, right? Maybe construction workers, architects, general contractors shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.
You can't live w/o money. Maybe banks shouldn't be allowed to make a profit either.
If you prefer a socialist setup then there's plenty of options out there for you.
I am on several health-related email discussion groups with people from around the world--and the Brits are telling me that the NHS has degenerated greatly in the last decade, most of which you have been here.
Likewise, death rates from the cancer you mention are far lower here (among other major illnesses).
We are far from perfect, but the government here has shown time and time again it simply cannot be trusted to run large programs effectively or efficiently. Now, they are cutting existing services to pay for what they propose to foist upon everyone.
Since not all public plans are created equal, I suggest you look at what they are actually proposing rather than apparently assuming it would be similar to Britain's.
There are other means of caring for those not insured than to scrap the whole system...and have 180 different government offices deciding how, when, and how much healthcare you can receive.
We do NOT have a "health care" system in this country, we have a "health insurance" system. I find it rather laughable that folks who defend our current system describe it as "health care" when it is a for profit insurance.
You can delude yourselves for now if you are young, healthy, employed and never had to dip into Big Insurance pockets. However, once something does go wrong you will see how gracious our system is to the sick.
The best solution is single payer. We would have the exact same system we have now except the government pays for it. Simple...that is why it hasn't succeeded, yet.
So Marc, why are you still here? You're right, every person who doesn't have a job giving them a full work-week and healthcare coverage must be a thug or a slutty mom. /sarcasm
Should we go ahead and privative police coverage, fire protection, and military defense as well? I mean, according to your logic we should just let everyone suffer and/or die if they can't individually afford them.
I'm afraid you'll just have to continue sitting in your home and remaining terrified and red-faced that some of your tax dollars might just end up saving the life of someone who just doesn't deserve it quite as much as you.
I've been doing this with dry-roasted peanuts for a few years now. I didn't think to add honey - what a great idea.
I find that it takes slightly less than 2 containers of peanuts to fill up the container with peanut butter. I store my peanut butter in the fridge to keep it from separating.
Walgreens has this great sale going on now. Even with shipping, you pay about $1.50 a pound. http://www.walgreens.com/search/results.jsp?Ntt=walgreens+dry+roasted+pe...
Homemade peanut butter will separate if not stored in the fridge. That's why you see shortening in the ingredient list of the commercial stuff.
You must have awesome health care coverage. two years ago I had to pay around $3000 for my baby to be born... and the bills to the insurance company were higher than what you quoted too. Its almost pointless for me to have health coverage now because i have to pay $1000 out of my own pocket before they pay ANYTHING!
One of the years my youngest son was in school ...
I think the only thing he ate was Burger King (where he worked part-time), mooched food from his roommates, and some of mom's home cooking. I don't think he spent a dime on food that year. Crazy Kid!!!!
To some of the commentors: you don't trust the government but you trust a company that's only out for profit? At least you have A say in the government, regardless of how insignificant it MAY seem. After all, a government is only as effective as it's citizens. If you dislike how things are run, start paying attention to your local elections and vote on ALL levels. Pay attention to the legislation that's being debated and stay in contact with your representatives. It matters.
To the author of this post: thank you so much for this article, especially the part about profits and needs. Healthcare is an absolute necessity and it concerns me the way some Americans express their "socialist" concerns. Perhaps this country would be better off if we could learn to care for each other and our neighbors instead of only ourselves.
but why is it so wrong to question it? I agree that the military-industrial complex is a huge problem, right now you have a military that is waging wars for coporate concerns. Money makes the world go around, but take a look at which nation has the happiest people. It sure as hell isn't America, if I recall it's a Scandanavian country with huge taxes. Isn't quality of life better than being rich and miserable?
How about opening up interstate competition between insurance companies? What about reforming the insurance industry? These are better options that putting your trust into the government, and taxing me even more. You want to see government healthcare in action? Look to the shameful way the VA hospitals take care of our servicemen and women. That's government run healthcare. Lesser of two evils? You are clueless. Do some actual research and stop basing your talking points on what Nancy Pelosi says. Reform the insurance industry, reform Medicare and Medicaid, but forcing me to buy this huge tax is the opposite of a free society.
As an American who has lived in Canada, I have to agree completely about the public option. There is nothing to fear about a public option. I got great care in both systems, but the cost of prescription drugs in the US when I didn't have good insurance with drug coverage was prohibitive. A 30-day supply of Prevacid in Canada, even before I had the provincial plan, was $60. In the US, it was $180, so I ordered it online from Mexico for $35. (I couldn't order it from Canada because I couldn't afford the office visit to get a new prescription). The Mexican drugs were fine, BTW. But anyone who says Canadian drugs are unsafe is dead wrong. I'm a nurse and worked in a Canadian eating disorder program. While I did see some long waits to get in to the program, patients were treated on general medical floors while waitng so nobody went without SOME treatment. I think the answer for the US lies somewhere in between these two systems, but the Canadian one is NOT some Glenn-Beck fueled communist nightmare.
Because work isn't free. You are entitled to your personal liberties and that's it. Everything else, you must work for. I don't work my butt off to pay for some lazy thug to go to the doctor. I don't put in 50 hour work weeks so a bunch of illegal aliens can get a flu shot. Personal responsibility. Have any of you socialists ever heard of that? I do not work to support your 5 kids from 5 different unknown fathers. There is plenty of room to improve the system, but forcing me to pay for your lazy a** is Fascism. Take care of yourself.
Am I the only one who thinks that giving $100 to 1000 people would be fair? And that getting $2 would suck when the person next to you gets $10,000? That's how riots start, no?
All of the commenters who don't trust the government - are you saying you trust the insurance companies?
Lesser of two evils - the government at least has to make a good show of serving the public. Insurers answer to investors only - that's not who I want deciding whether I get treatment or not.
YOu are exactly what is wrong with our country. You lack the intelligence to see that Capitalism isn't what has put us in the dire straits and massive debt we find ourselves immersed in. The failed policies of a corrupt government has lead us where we are. When you have Barney Frank telling Fannie May and Freddie Mac that they have to write loans to people who they would normally not, it creates huge problems. When you have a Federal Reserve made up of foreign bankers creating money out of thin air, artificially manipulating interest rates, and hiding their actions from the public, it creates problems. When you allow the military industrial complex to waste billions every week fighting wars we have no business fighting, it creates problems. When you have out of control social programs that reward lack of effort (a welfare entitlement state) combined with an open boarder, it creates problems. Study the facts and analyize them.
I applaud your post. I think you made great points. I agree with all of them.
The only thing that I would add/comment on is that at the very bottom of all of this is personal responsibility. I have no problem with providing health care for all - public, single payer, universal, whatever the proper vernacular is. I understand people become sick of no fault of their own. However, one thing I can't stand is people making poor decisions about their personal health (like overeating and not being physically active) or not investing in their own health at all and everyone else pays. I think that's the core of the anti-health care reform push. And I can understand that. I feel like there needs to be transparancy and visibility into healthcare costs and the cause and effect of personal decisions about health. I don't know how to do that, but I think it's the missing link...
It's something to think about. I understand one of the reasons Europe is so regulatory about products and their environment is precisely because the governments pick up the tab for healthcare. They are more attuned to dangerous, potential cancer and other illness causing products and production outputs.
I am a Registered Nurse. I was born, raised, and educated in Canada, and have lived in the United States for the past 12 years. Your arguments are solid, and I agree wholeheartedly.
I do enjoy working in the United States, but I just cannot understand how any caring, compassionate, civilized society can allow profit and health care to be uttered in the same sentence.
@Paul Michael
Why is it such a bad thing that there is a gap between rich and poor. Would you rather I take $100 and split it evenly between 100 people, or I take $100,000 and split it unevenly between those same 100 people, such that no one person received less than $2? In the latter case there is huge inequality, but every single person is better off than any given person in the first scenario. That is what we have here. Inequality? Yep. But EVERYONE is better off.
I was born in England and lived there for 28 years and have spent the last 29 Years in the United States. Another advantage of the British system is that when you are unemployed health care coverage continues uninterrupted. Also changing jobs is a lot easier with health care independent of your employer.
However, I still prefer the U.S. system. I do not trust the federal government to run health care. These are the same guys running the Post Office, Social Security, and our budget deficits.
A better way is to keep what works and expand on it. Reform what doesn't work. Millions of people are happy with the current system. It would be nice if our premiums were less (mine are over $500 a month) but I believe it is because there are monopolies that prevent market forces from operating. The way to solve this is not for government to start its own monopoly but to attend to the real cause.
One would think that if health care profits are sky high that other companies would want to enter the market and grab some of the profits. If this is not happening, why not? If Congress had spent time asking this question instead of stupidly trying to change the whole world as we know it, maybe we might have a solution.
But at least government action on health care might bring some benefit as opposed to the mindless cap and trade fiasco Congress embarked on.
Thanks for writing about this. I have family on both sides of the Atlantic; some of those on the other side (all employed with good jobs, BTW) are there because of the health care system comparison (i.e. they get better and more affordable treatment in Europe).
Beyond the important issues you raise, the current US system strikes me as a tremendous drag on our economy. I sat through hours of meetings at one of my employers as the organization negotiated a new health care plan for the coming year (it had provided BCBS, but that got too expensive). The cost of the hours spent on otherwise unproductive activities (i.e., we weren't doing our jobs, just trying to sort out the health care coverage) must have been ridiculous. And of course plenty of people cannot leave jobs or start small businesses because they cannot afford coverage.
Clothes swapping! This is the perfect solution for those who want to change their look and keep it up to date or fresh without having to spend spend spend.
I personally adore what I call 'previously enjoyed' clothing and am constantly extolling the virtues of shopping at thrift and secondhand stores. I have to admit, the swapping concept is new to me.
Would I swap one of my items of clothing with someone else in exchange for one of theirs? Sure thing. I'd swap my children for a pair of must-have shoes or a to-die-for coat. But then I am the meanest woman on the planet! Thanks for this tip, I can feel a whole new wardrobe coming on :-)
Thanks for your objective, and complete posting comparing these two health care systems. I hope we end up with a workable, and affordable system.
John DeFlumeri Jr
...if capitalism has worked so well, why is this country in such dire straits? Why do we have more debt than any other country in the world? Why are 6500 people applying for 120 jobs at Applebees? Why is the gap between the rich and the poor growing? And let us not forget how many times "Socialism" has been chanted in this country. From public parks and public schools to public transportation, it seems to me that people are very frightened of change. I'm not saying the NHS is perfect, but our current system in America needs an overhaul. Profit is one thing, but denying people a basic right so that someone can make an extra .5% on their stock options is just plain wrong. In my opinion.
I work a good job and thought I had fairly reasonable coverage, but my plan only covers 75% of costs - so when I had a minor outpatient surgery earlier this fall, I was handed nearly $3,000.00 in bills that I was responsible for. My fiancee is a student with no coverage, and his father was recently laid off and can't even get his own private coverage because of a heart condition. I'm sorry, but I'd rather pay higher taxes and take my chances with the government.
It's called capitalism and its worked well for this country for a couple hundred years.
Doctors and insurance companies have a right to make a profit on the services they offer.
If you or the government can all of a sudden decide that Health Care is too important or needed so that it shouldn't be allowed to make a profit then where does it stop?
We all have to eat, maybe farmers shouldn't be allowed to make a profit. We all need power to operate our homes and run our businesses, maybe Utility Companies shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.
What about shelter? Everyone deserves a place to live that's clean and safe, right? Maybe construction workers, architects, general contractors shouldn't be allowed to make a profit.
You can't live w/o money. Maybe banks shouldn't be allowed to make a profit either.
If you prefer a socialist setup then there's plenty of options out there for you.
I am on several health-related email discussion groups with people from around the world--and the Brits are telling me that the NHS has degenerated greatly in the last decade, most of which you have been here.
Likewise, death rates from the cancer you mention are far lower here (among other major illnesses).
We are far from perfect, but the government here has shown time and time again it simply cannot be trusted to run large programs effectively or efficiently. Now, they are cutting existing services to pay for what they propose to foist upon everyone.
Since not all public plans are created equal, I suggest you look at what they are actually proposing rather than apparently assuming it would be similar to Britain's.
There are other means of caring for those not insured than to scrap the whole system...and have 180 different government offices deciding how, when, and how much healthcare you can receive.