It seems absurd that the bank would want to screw over its customers like this. They should record credits before debits, and charge a small fee when doing otherwise would have resulted in an overdraft fee. It could be automated.
... and the transactions could not have been much different.
The first house was for sale by a non-local bank. A non-local lender essentially means that there is no human being you can talk to. Yes, the bank is represented by a more local real estate agent, but they may have the same difficulty as you in actually getting to *speak* with someone if things go awry. Large non-local lenders often will lump several states together and leave one poor guy (or gal) to deal with dozens of long-distance transactions. Beware.
Our purchase fell through the cracks (their fault) just before closing. My real estate agent was a champ about pestering the selling agents and even people at the lender's closing company. But it seemed like everytime she related the whole story to catch someone up, they promised to look into it and we never heard from them again. After nine months of this revolving door and waiting for closing to be rescheduled, we gave up and cancelled the contract. The house went back on the market -- for about $30,000 less than we offered to pay them (!).
The second house was sold by a large but locally based lender. It closed within a month. Everything was handled promptly and smoothly. We even had someone to ask about a vacant-building fee charged by our county (they covered it, too).
Some lenders don't want to be in the house-selling business. Some can't get out of their own way. The best takeaway I can offer is to be patient, especially if the seller is out of town, and, for goodness' sake, don't buy a foreclosure or a short sale if you don't already have someplace you can stay for an indefinite amount of time.
I have read that it is virtually impossible to buy a REO except as a full cash deal. This article only says "more cash is better." So how practical is it to finance a REO?
The problem with the process is that there is no accountability for the appraiser. WE recently had a re-fi, and while we didn't need a large appraisal..... the fact was that the appraisal was plain wrong. Wrong information, previous sale info was listed with the wrong date and a price diff of over $20k lower. The appraiser comp'ed our 1.5 acre property with small .20 acre zero lot homes. He did not adjust for this. the appraisal was scheduled within 2 hours of contacting me and completed the next morning. Oh, and the appraiser also used foreclosed properties to comp with. We attempted for 3 weeks to contact this guy and he never called us back. I tried going through the appraisal mgmt firm and they were no help. This appraiser got the money and didn't even halfway do the job. If this was a sale or purchase, we most definately would have had to pay for a second appraisal. There is no accountability for the appraiser. He could be a newbie with no experience and you have no way to know if he is competent or not.
It's not necessarily calories. It's more about what's in the food. Today health is based on food exchange. As in counting food groups instead of calories. It all boils down to nutrition and that is why the new sight of poverty is over wheight.
I have and will continue to re-gift. There should be no stigma attached to this if you are giving something that is in pristine condition that you know the other person will love. Gifts should never be judged on their dollar value (I bought you a $1000 ring so I love you more than the person that spent $10 on you). I often buy gifts from garage sale where the owners have received a gift they don't like but would rather sell it than re-gift it. I ask them about it and try to find out if there is a history to it (their cousin bought it for them in Germany, their aunt worked in the store that she bought this from). This Christmas I will be giving my sister a brand new $45 book on herbs that cost me 50 cents. It was given to the person holding the garage sale as a retirement gift and they have no interest in gardening, my sister on the other hand bought herself a small greenhouse this spring and I know she will love this book.
I echo the disappoint mentioned by Em and Cat - not the kind of article I've come to expect from WB. You admit lack of personal responsibility more than once and blame the bank?
Are current bank practices questionable? Maybe, but it's not the only industry that takes advantage of irresponsible behavior. However, millions of responsible adults are able to function within the current banking practices without getting hit with overdraft fees. There is a lot in life that's unfair and/or questionable, but no one is going to look out for you but you.
This article essentially mirrors the one by Will Chen one week ago, with the same conspiratorial conclusion but less drama. Many reader comments from people in Chen's article were as equally irate. The root of these grievances is, fundamentally, a lack of accountability by account holders.
The checking service of a bank is a business arrangement. The holder agreement received at the outset, as well as the periodic amendments to that agreement, reflect this purpose. Passive acceptance by consumers is implied consent. By law, overdraft fees may be the penalty for mismanagement (FDIC Reg. Cat. 6500, § 205.3(b)(3)(i)).
Question everything you do not understand when the regulations are given to you. It's not the bank's responsibility to safeguard your funds.
... and got their email reply that if you don't hear from them within 10 days you probably won't get any jobs as you were added to their waiting list.
I hate to be cynical, but I wonder if these free trial review sessions get sold to clients, and, given the laws of supply and demand, will there be very few (if any) paying review sessions.
I went to an expensive private university which I could not afford to attend today, haha.
I feel sorry for current college grads....
Anyhoo, I can audit almost any class for $25! Just need approval from the class Professor. Regular tuition is about $30,000 per year now.
I took some Italian courses before going to Italy, some history classes just for fun and plan on taking some more philosophy classes next year. Amazing deal.
I'm going to disagree. If you love what you're doing then you'll be happy no matter what situation you are in. The goal of this world is not to see who has the most money or the most toys. It's to love your neighbor as yourself, it's to help and serve others, to raise a loving family that can function in society and return the love and giving.
Our society has made the goal of a family to be financially strong and in the meantime the wife and husband are both working, the kids are at daycare and the home is no longer a place of love and comfort. It becomes a battleground of money and helping little Johnny get every game and toy that come on the shelf. Shuffling kids to 15 different activities, getting food on the fly. Where are our priorities?
You can absolutely love what you do. You get a smaller house, a smaller car, less clothing and electronics and pursue what you love. Nothing in this free country of America prevents anyone from setting a goal and going after it. If you work hard enough, you will achieve it.
Thank you so much for sharing this. It made feel better. This morning, I had to deal with this issue with TD Bank. It's a horrible practice and has left me with hundreds of dollars in fees.
I have been making small steps towards improving my financial situation. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck anymore. I even took out a 403b Loan to help fund my new checking account at Citibank so I can stop having this problem.
You can deposit checks into your bank's ATM. We do it all the time. You could have deposited it on Saturday when you got it, and then you would have had enough to cover the money you spent.
Sierra your story is unfortunately not that uncommon. Bank fees make up the large majority of bank revenues, not lending.
In your case, the bank policy reflects the normal debits before credits system. Basically Saturday and Sunday don't really exist because they aren't banking days. So between Friday night and Monday morning your account was negative 3 times before coming positive.
This is in my opinion criminal, because less than 10% of the banks customers make up 90% of their fee revenue in most cases. And nearly always that 10% are the people struggling financially, the people who need a break and can't afford on average $30+ for overdrawing their account even by $1.
When considering where to bank, make sure you look into their fee structure, enroll in an auto transfer program between your checking and savings accounts if you have them, and go straight to the branch manager in the store if you are ever charged. In most cases, a community bank will refund the fee once or twice for you, just ask and if that doesn't work get loud.
National banks are a whole different bureaucratic animal. Glad to hear you got your money back this time.
By your own admission you were overdrawn and now you are bitching on here about it! You say that you ran to the bank Monday to deposit your paycheck knowing they didn't process weekend transactions till Monday! Seriously? Stop complaining about your own financial inadequacies. I'm really not defending the banks, sure they do sneaky things. But this is YOUR FAULT not theirs. You admit that the weekend transactions made you overdrawn, you admit it, stop complaining that the bank called you on it! What do you imagine would happen if the bank DID process weekend transactions immediately? Yeah you'd have more charges, so thank your lucky stars, pay the fees you incurred (cos you admit it, you were overdrawn) and manage your money better!
I am also surprised, and more than a little disappointed, to see this kind of article on Wise Bread. I consider myself a fiscally responsible person, and I come here to learn about other ways to be fiscally and personally responsible.
This entry, in which the author abdicates all personal responsibility, instead choosing to highlight overt drama while demonizing the banking industry ("My Bank Stole My Grocery Money" - really? Your irresponsible juggling of withdraws and deposits along a thin wire of one business day isn't your fault at ALL? Is this your first checking account?) is not the quality I had come to expect from this blog.
I had a similar experience with TD bank last week, with over $200 in fees. They credited my account, though, when it was discovered that they really did screw up. They had taken out payment for a debit that occurred over a month ago, and then again just last week. Since I had already deemed it paid, there was not enough in the account to cover it again, and everything else that came through initiated overdrafts. I am so thankful that they returned the money, since they are the big bad institution that can easily say, "tough luck; not our problem." I've been tempted to go all cash and use money orders and/or credit cards.
As a loyal reader, I am a bit disappointed by this blog entry. I always admire your encouragement and savvy tips on financial issues. However, this post advises your readers that it is ok to blame banks for our own financial irresponsibility and that we should not have to suffer the consequences. This article is a classic example of someone spending more money than they have available, then blaming someone else for their actions. In a time when many have finally been hit hard because of their thoughtless overspending, shouldn't you encourage people to adapt better financial habits rather than give them someone else to blame?
I hope to see more helpful articles in the future.
I wonder if Brenda's problem is some kind of browser-specific but? Is everyone else seeing an article without spaces between words? I'm not.
It seems absurd that the bank would want to screw over its customers like this. They should record credits before debits, and charge a small fee when doing otherwise would have resulted in an overdraft fee. It could be automated.
... and the transactions could not have been much different.
The first house was for sale by a non-local bank. A non-local lender essentially means that there is no human being you can talk to. Yes, the bank is represented by a more local real estate agent, but they may have the same difficulty as you in actually getting to *speak* with someone if things go awry. Large non-local lenders often will lump several states together and leave one poor guy (or gal) to deal with dozens of long-distance transactions. Beware.
Our purchase fell through the cracks (their fault) just before closing. My real estate agent was a champ about pestering the selling agents and even people at the lender's closing company. But it seemed like everytime she related the whole story to catch someone up, they promised to look into it and we never heard from them again. After nine months of this revolving door and waiting for closing to be rescheduled, we gave up and cancelled the contract. The house went back on the market -- for about $30,000 less than we offered to pay them (!).
The second house was sold by a large but locally based lender. It closed within a month. Everything was handled promptly and smoothly. We even had someone to ask about a vacant-building fee charged by our county (they covered it, too).
Some lenders don't want to be in the house-selling business. Some can't get out of their own way. The best takeaway I can offer is to be patient, especially if the seller is out of town, and, for goodness' sake, don't buy a foreclosure or a short sale if you don't already have someplace you can stay for an indefinite amount of time.
I have read that it is virtually impossible to buy a REO except as a full cash deal. This article only says "more cash is better." So how practical is it to finance a REO?
The problem with the process is that there is no accountability for the appraiser. WE recently had a re-fi, and while we didn't need a large appraisal..... the fact was that the appraisal was plain wrong. Wrong information, previous sale info was listed with the wrong date and a price diff of over $20k lower. The appraiser comp'ed our 1.5 acre property with small .20 acre zero lot homes. He did not adjust for this. the appraisal was scheduled within 2 hours of contacting me and completed the next morning. Oh, and the appraiser also used foreclosed properties to comp with. We attempted for 3 weeks to contact this guy and he never called us back. I tried going through the appraisal mgmt firm and they were no help. This appraiser got the money and didn't even halfway do the job. If this was a sale or purchase, we most definately would have had to pay for a second appraisal. There is no accountability for the appraiser. He could be a newbie with no experience and you have no way to know if he is competent or not.
I have tried all the codes that I can see and still nothing works.
Hopefully someone somewhere can find a code. Meantime still searching...
It's not necessarily calories. It's more about what's in the food. Today health is based on food exchange. As in counting food groups instead of calories. It all boils down to nutrition and that is why the new sight of poverty is over wheight.
I have and will continue to re-gift. There should be no stigma attached to this if you are giving something that is in pristine condition that you know the other person will love. Gifts should never be judged on their dollar value (I bought you a $1000 ring so I love you more than the person that spent $10 on you). I often buy gifts from garage sale where the owners have received a gift they don't like but would rather sell it than re-gift it. I ask them about it and try to find out if there is a history to it (their cousin bought it for them in Germany, their aunt worked in the store that she bought this from). This Christmas I will be giving my sister a brand new $45 book on herbs that cost me 50 cents. It was given to the person holding the garage sale as a retirement gift and they have no interest in gardening, my sister on the other hand bought herself a small greenhouse this spring and I know she will love this book.
I echo the disappoint mentioned by Em and Cat - not the kind of article I've come to expect from WB. You admit lack of personal responsibility more than once and blame the bank?
Are current bank practices questionable? Maybe, but it's not the only industry that takes advantage of irresponsible behavior. However, millions of responsible adults are able to function within the current banking practices without getting hit with overdraft fees. There is a lot in life that's unfair and/or questionable, but no one is going to look out for you but you.
@ Sierra Black
This article essentially mirrors the one by Will Chen one week ago, with the same conspiratorial conclusion but less drama. Many reader comments from people in Chen's article were as equally irate. The root of these grievances is, fundamentally, a lack of accountability by account holders.
The checking service of a bank is a business arrangement. The holder agreement received at the outset, as well as the periodic amendments to that agreement, reflect this purpose. Passive acceptance by consumers is implied consent. By law, overdraft fees may be the penalty for mismanagement (FDIC Reg. Cat. 6500, § 205.3(b)(3)(i)).
Question everything you do not understand when the regulations are given to you. It's not the bank's responsibility to safeguard your funds.
Thanks for including my post in today's roundup!
Good things to keep in mind. What do you have for people who went into the military after high school? :)
... and got their email reply that if you don't hear from them within 10 days you probably won't get any jobs as you were added to their waiting list.
I hate to be cynical, but I wonder if these free trial review sessions get sold to clients, and, given the laws of supply and demand, will there be very few (if any) paying review sessions.
I went to an expensive private university which I could not afford to attend today, haha.
I feel sorry for current college grads....
Anyhoo, I can audit almost any class for $25! Just need approval from the class Professor. Regular tuition is about $30,000 per year now.
I took some Italian courses before going to Italy, some history classes just for fun and plan on taking some more philosophy classes next year. Amazing deal.
If you only have $40 why are you trying to withdraw $50? That is more than your balance so you will get denied.
I'm going to disagree. If you love what you're doing then you'll be happy no matter what situation you are in. The goal of this world is not to see who has the most money or the most toys. It's to love your neighbor as yourself, it's to help and serve others, to raise a loving family that can function in society and return the love and giving.
Our society has made the goal of a family to be financially strong and in the meantime the wife and husband are both working, the kids are at daycare and the home is no longer a place of love and comfort. It becomes a battleground of money and helping little Johnny get every game and toy that come on the shelf. Shuffling kids to 15 different activities, getting food on the fly. Where are our priorities?
You can absolutely love what you do. You get a smaller house, a smaller car, less clothing and electronics and pursue what you love. Nothing in this free country of America prevents anyone from setting a goal and going after it. If you work hard enough, you will achieve it.
Banks are designed to make a profit.
Credit unions are designed to serve their members.
There is almost always a good local or regional credit union that can serve all your banking needs.
If you are eligible, USAA is about the best there is. But any would be better than a bank...
Thank you so much for sharing this. It made feel better. This morning, I had to deal with this issue with TD Bank. It's a horrible practice and has left me with hundreds of dollars in fees.
I have been making small steps towards improving my financial situation. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck anymore. I even took out a 403b Loan to help fund my new checking account at Citibank so I can stop having this problem.
My heart goes out to you,
Aspiring Millionaire
You can deposit checks into your bank's ATM. We do it all the time. You could have deposited it on Saturday when you got it, and then you would have had enough to cover the money you spent.
I would I like to sell my hair,please contact me at www.goodgirlm8@aol.com
Sierra your story is unfortunately not that uncommon. Bank fees make up the large majority of bank revenues, not lending.
In your case, the bank policy reflects the normal debits before credits system. Basically Saturday and Sunday don't really exist because they aren't banking days. So between Friday night and Monday morning your account was negative 3 times before coming positive.
This is in my opinion criminal, because less than 10% of the banks customers make up 90% of their fee revenue in most cases. And nearly always that 10% are the people struggling financially, the people who need a break and can't afford on average $30+ for overdrawing their account even by $1.
When considering where to bank, make sure you look into their fee structure, enroll in an auto transfer program between your checking and savings accounts if you have them, and go straight to the branch manager in the store if you are ever charged. In most cases, a community bank will refund the fee once or twice for you, just ask and if that doesn't work get loud.
National banks are a whole different bureaucratic animal. Glad to hear you got your money back this time.
Brian
Editor, www.SocialMediaDefined.com
By your own admission you were overdrawn and now you are bitching on here about it! You say that you ran to the bank Monday to deposit your paycheck knowing they didn't process weekend transactions till Monday! Seriously? Stop complaining about your own financial inadequacies. I'm really not defending the banks, sure they do sneaky things. But this is YOUR FAULT not theirs. You admit that the weekend transactions made you overdrawn, you admit it, stop complaining that the bank called you on it! What do you imagine would happen if the bank DID process weekend transactions immediately? Yeah you'd have more charges, so thank your lucky stars, pay the fees you incurred (cos you admit it, you were overdrawn) and manage your money better!
I am also surprised, and more than a little disappointed, to see this kind of article on Wise Bread. I consider myself a fiscally responsible person, and I come here to learn about other ways to be fiscally and personally responsible.
This entry, in which the author abdicates all personal responsibility, instead choosing to highlight overt drama while demonizing the banking industry ("My Bank Stole My Grocery Money" - really? Your irresponsible juggling of withdraws and deposits along a thin wire of one business day isn't your fault at ALL? Is this your first checking account?) is not the quality I had come to expect from this blog.
I had a similar experience with TD bank last week, with over $200 in fees. They credited my account, though, when it was discovered that they really did screw up. They had taken out payment for a debit that occurred over a month ago, and then again just last week. Since I had already deemed it paid, there was not enough in the account to cover it again, and everything else that came through initiated overdrafts. I am so thankful that they returned the money, since they are the big bad institution that can easily say, "tough luck; not our problem." I've been tempted to go all cash and use money orders and/or credit cards.
Wise Bread,
As a loyal reader, I am a bit disappointed by this blog entry. I always admire your encouragement and savvy tips on financial issues. However, this post advises your readers that it is ok to blame banks for our own financial irresponsibility and that we should not have to suffer the consequences. This article is a classic example of someone spending more money than they have available, then blaming someone else for their actions. In a time when many have finally been hit hard because of their thoughtless overspending, shouldn't you encourage people to adapt better financial habits rather than give them someone else to blame?
I hope to see more helpful articles in the future.
Em