I get great deals, no looks necessary. But I do most of my shopping online. And when I shop at Walmart, the women there don't care much that I look like the Dutch Boy paint mascot. They just want me to move my 4 crabby kids through the line!
Current economic thinking is that consumption is good for the economy. So going along with this it would imply that people who buy consumer goods on credit are good for the economy.
The big problem I have with this thinking is that it ignores the costs of servicing debt. I wonder whether someone who buys a massive TV screen with their credit card feels wealthier. Wouldn't the money he gave to the credit card company be better utilized in building a new factory, which produced cheaper goods? Or perhaps building a new road which cut his daily commute to work?
What about the money which went overseas to the outsourced factory? When overseas products are bought it transfers wealth overseas. Over the last 20 yrs there has been a major improvements in living standards Asia with very little improvements in the western world. Asians in general are great savers, maybe there is a lesson to be learned there.
A shift to frugality would mean a deep recession. However a restructuring of the economy would probably lead to long term improvements.
As a side note - Credit crunches/Recessions are fantastic for those who are frugal and save. Fortunes can be made buying assets at distressed prices from people who are over-leveraged.
The Chicken breakfast biscuit is not bad; it's not Chik-fil-a, but I don't have one of those within 10 miles of me. I have a Mcdonald's within walking distance.
Well put! The first time I suffered through Dunkin' Donuts coffee, I had just flown back into the States from Eastern Europe. I was craving a real cup of joe, but there was no Starbucks in the airport...
Well...my inlaws actually live in a house that's just..humongous. Both of their children are grown and out of the house, but they do have a lot of family gatherings and church events that take place at their house. They sort of want to downsize but then again they have had their house for 15+ years. It is useful when all the cousins go over and the kids jump in the pool and have a lot of fun I guess. It is a waste the rest of the times when it is just this one couple in a 5 bedroom house. I guess since they can afford it with ease it is fine. Though I do think people who upgrade into bigger McMansions might be just throwing money away if most of the space isn't used much.
If you really love DD's coffee, I'll tell you their secret. It's relatively easy and inexpensive to replicate the DD coffee experience. Just get a bag of the cheapest oldest coffee beans you can find at a $0.99 store. Dump the beans in a puddle in the parking lot and stomp in the puddle with your bare feet for at least 5 minutes. Separate the beans and let them dry on the sunny side a freeway for at least a day. Then add one teaspoon of cinnamon for every pound of beans. For a stronger flavor get your feet nice and sweaty before the stomping.
That's the DD coffee secret. Crappy beans & cinnamon.
I spent some time in Asia and saw a lot of the same behavior you describe. I have to admit ignorance in that I used to stereotype Asians as greedy but over the years i've come to realize that the culture places a high value on common sense.
Many people have compared the current economic situation ("Credit Crunch", "Housing Bubble", etc) to the Great Depression. One of the issues heavily debated during the Depression was whether the U.S. government should provide assistance to people living in the Dust Bowl. Providing aid might encourage people to continue living in an area that, at the time, was seen as worthless. Instead, people should be given the incentive to move elsewhere, regardless of the cost in human suffering. Fortunately, changes in farming techniques and public works programs from the New Deal helped put the country and the Dust Bowl region back on track. But it required people to change their way of life in dramatic ways.
The tilling of the earth in the Dust Bowl was driven by loose credit lending that enabled farmers to purchase new farming machinery that destroyed the Great Plain grasslands at a staggering rate. This led to erosion of the soil, which caused widespread destruction of crops throughout the region.
Loose credit lending is destructive. People are seemingly incapable of knowing how much is too much. It happened in the Great Depression, and it is happening now with the Credit Crunch (I really dislike this term). There must be some pain felt by those who were over-extended. I think that the generation who experienced the Great Depression will always remember the costs of excess. Perhaps this is the opportunity for today's youth to learn the true price of credit.
I think that being frugal in good- and bad-times makes for a better situation for the individual, but I belive it's unrealistic to expect this from the average American adult. It seems to be in our nature to indulge in excess, and credit-lenders are more than happy satisfy that urge when the reward is high.
If you have an 80/20 mortgage, pay down the mortgage that has the highest interest rate. Your Home Equity Line of Credit interest rate is probably below your regular mortgage interest rate right now, so you want to pay down the regular mortgage. While you may not "see" much difference, every little bit you put toward your debt helps. If you feel that you want to pay down the HELOC loan regardless of interest rate because it has the smaller balance, DON'T! Consider the interest rate when deciding which loan to pay down. If you stick to a regular payoff schedule, you will "see" your results faster.
I actually quite like the southern chicken sandwich (as compared to their other crispy chicken sandwiches). Always hot and juicy. Not as good as Chic Fil A
I'm game for most any sandwich, even bland ones. I'm wondering if you could scrape off the pickles and mayo and jazz it up with some BBQ or a little Tobasco?
Within the last few decades, I've noticed a phenomenon that seems to affect empty nesters. I've seen these couples buy even more house than they had before because these mega-mansions have more amenities. The reason for this is they think that their children and grandchildren will come and VISIT LONGER if there's plenty of room & entertainment for them. This can include backyard in-ground swimming pools (with water slides,etc,) playrooms with plenty of video games and a big screen TV. They can also hold large family gatherings at the Holidays every year. Plenty of room for overnight company. And, yes, some people live there because they 'can' or because they want to 'show off'. Maybe people think that if they can't offer their kids and grandkids all these attractions, they'll never come over or maybe cut their visits very short. I personally know 3 different couples (with grown children) who live in McMansions for these very reasons.
I'd like to hear other opinions on this. Thanks
You're right that gas is only worth what people will pay for it, but I think you're mistaken in thinking that people won't pay $10 if that's what it costs.
Of course, very poor people will be forced out of the market altogether, and people with just a little more money will be hard pressed to make ends meet. But most people will just grumble and then make a few small adaptations, such as combining trips.
As I said, there are parts of Europe where gasoline already costs $10 a gallon, and it certainly hasn't put a stop to driving.
I don't think the federal tax on fuel (18.4 cents a gallon) provides any great incentive for the government to suppress technological improvements to fuel efficiency. In fact, I doubt if there are any magic bullets out there for greater fuel efficiency. Rather, it's easy to improve fuel efficiency, by making the cars smaller and lighter and giving them smaller engines. There are such cars on the market. They hadn't been selling very well, until quite recently. In general, I think people will switch to such cars only when they simply can't afford to drive bigger cars. Part of the purpose of my post is to suggest that people make any such change as part of an overall plan.
I would be curious to know what other's think of the sandwich. I ordered one this past week (before I knew of this special) and it was the blandest, tasteless mushy sandwich I've had in my life. One off or is it really that bad?
My husband and I are full-time students. He also works 50+ hours a weeks...I work part-time. We made a combined total of $43,000 last year. We only got $600 back- and we filed our taxes jointly. They said that because of our income, our rebate was reduced....I don't understand!!!
Simple, really, it comes down to jobs. Less spending equates to fewer jobs. (Come to think of it, people were damn frugal during the great depression.) Philosophically, you might not believe in conspicuous consumption, but it is what drives the world's economy.
Individually, being frugal does make sense. Globally it doesn't. But not to worry, man is innately a consumer. It's not only his nature, but the nature of nature. In times of plenty, the impulse of all living creatures is to eat and store more of whatever is valuable. This makes sense, because bad times eventually come.
As for me, I'm not very materialistic (comparatively speaking) but I still see the world as it is, not as I wish it to be. To choose to be frugal is only a choice when you live in a rich society. Otherwise, it's not a choice.
Gas is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. The market will not hold $10/gallon gas. $5 or $6 at most. There are plenty of inventions out there to increase gas milage but what benefit does the government have to give that kind of milage. Think of how many tax dollars the gov gets every time you fill up. We have the technology government just needs the money. http://gas2.org/2008/02/29/37659-mpg-car-found-in-museum-it-was-built-in...
Also i saw comments about "who killed the electric car" The united states doesn't have the power base to support an electric car economy. A hydrogen economy isn't even possible yet due to the power necessary to seperate Hydrogen from water if done on a mass scale from home.
When people ask, "Wouldn't it hurt the economy?" ...I think there is a tendency to think of "The Economy" as an end goal, not a means to other goals. To get to the heart of the matter, we need to refine the original question.
i.e., "What are the best measures of a healthy economy?"
First of all, the speed limit needs to be reduced and enforced. This in itself will save lives. It actually can be very pleasant driving at or under the speed limit. People are in such as rush just to save 5 minutes. I experimented on a little trip this weekend. I used my cruise control when possible, did not accelerate needlessly, and stayed at 60 mph. And, no, I was not the only one going 60 in the slow lane. There were others. Bottom line, even with the AC on in my 2006 Toyota Corolla, I went 163 miles on 3.67 gallons = 44.6 mpg. What do you think of that???
Good Article ! Tanning could turn out costly to you
The sun's rays contain two types of ultraviolet radiation that reach your skin: UVA and UVB. UVB radiation burns the upper layers of skin (the epidermis), causing sunburns.
UVA radiation is what makes people tan. UVA rays penetrate to the lower layers of the epidermis, where they trigger cells called melanocytes (pronounced: mel-an-oh-sites) to produce melanin. Melanin is the brown pigment that causes tanning.
Melanin is the body's way of protecting skin from burning. Darker-skinned people tan more deeply than lighter-skinned people because their melanocytes produce more melanin. But just because a person doesn't burn does not mean that he or she is also protected against skin cancer and other problems. Beds for Sale
Now I'm no expert in energy but I reckon there's a pretty good chance energy costs will continue to rise. Fossil fuel reserves are limited and causing continual tension across the globe . . . demand is high and it's not gonna reduce any time soon . . . so costs should move accordingly. Likewise - renewable sources will require massive capital investments to bring fully to market . . . which is not going to make for 'cheap' energy any time soon.
I'm in the UK and my family have made these changes already:
1 - All utilities are metered so we know exactly what we're using
2 - All lights / appliances are switched off until needed
3 - Car use kept to a minimum (I commute via train & walk 6 miles a day)
I currently own a 2700+ square foot house. It's me, my wife, our son, and 2 dogs. We have a huge gameroom for our son and his friends, a gym, an office for me, and a guest bedroom. Sure it's bigger than we "need". But at the same time it has everything we want, so that home is a great place to be. If we have friends / family over, we're not bumping shoulders the whole time - everyone has plenty of space.
So I don't regret having a fairly good sized house. That being said, if I lived alone ( no wife / kid / dogs ) I'd likely be one of those crazies with the 110 square foot homes.
I get great deals, no looks necessary. But I do most of my shopping online. And when I shop at Walmart, the women there don't care much that I look like the Dutch Boy paint mascot. They just want me to move my 4 crabby kids through the line!
Great post!
Current economic thinking is that consumption is good for the economy. So going along with this it would imply that people who buy consumer goods on credit are good for the economy.
The big problem I have with this thinking is that it ignores the costs of servicing debt. I wonder whether someone who buys a massive TV screen with their credit card feels wealthier. Wouldn't the money he gave to the credit card company be better utilized in building a new factory, which produced cheaper goods? Or perhaps building a new road which cut his daily commute to work?
What about the money which went overseas to the outsourced factory? When overseas products are bought it transfers wealth overseas. Over the last 20 yrs there has been a major improvements in living standards Asia with very little improvements in the western world. Asians in general are great savers, maybe there is a lesson to be learned there.
A shift to frugality would mean a deep recession. However a restructuring of the economy would probably lead to long term improvements.
As a side note - Credit crunches/Recessions are fantastic for those who are frugal and save. Fortunes can be made buying assets at distressed prices from people who are over-leveraged.
The Chicken breakfast biscuit is not bad; it's not Chik-fil-a, but I don't have one of those within 10 miles of me. I have a Mcdonald's within walking distance.
Well put! The first time I suffered through Dunkin' Donuts coffee, I had just flown back into the States from Eastern Europe. I was craving a real cup of joe, but there was no Starbucks in the airport...
Never again.
Well...my inlaws actually live in a house that's just..humongous. Both of their children are grown and out of the house, but they do have a lot of family gatherings and church events that take place at their house. They sort of want to downsize but then again they have had their house for 15+ years. It is useful when all the cousins go over and the kids jump in the pool and have a lot of fun I guess. It is a waste the rest of the times when it is just this one couple in a 5 bedroom house. I guess since they can afford it with ease it is fine. Though I do think people who upgrade into bigger McMansions might be just throwing money away if most of the space isn't used much.
If you really love DD's coffee, I'll tell you their secret. It's relatively easy and inexpensive to replicate the DD coffee experience. Just get a bag of the cheapest oldest coffee beans you can find at a $0.99 store. Dump the beans in a puddle in the parking lot and stomp in the puddle with your bare feet for at least 5 minutes. Separate the beans and let them dry on the sunny side a freeway for at least a day. Then add one teaspoon of cinnamon for every pound of beans. For a stronger flavor get your feet nice and sweaty before the stomping.
That's the DD coffee secret. Crappy beans & cinnamon.
I spent some time in Asia and saw a lot of the same behavior you describe. I have to admit ignorance in that I used to stereotype Asians as greedy but over the years i've come to realize that the culture places a high value on common sense.
Many people have compared the current economic situation ("Credit Crunch", "Housing Bubble", etc) to the Great Depression. One of the issues heavily debated during the Depression was whether the U.S. government should provide assistance to people living in the Dust Bowl. Providing aid might encourage people to continue living in an area that, at the time, was seen as worthless. Instead, people should be given the incentive to move elsewhere, regardless of the cost in human suffering. Fortunately, changes in farming techniques and public works programs from the New Deal helped put the country and the Dust Bowl region back on track. But it required people to change their way of life in dramatic ways.
The tilling of the earth in the Dust Bowl was driven by loose credit lending that enabled farmers to purchase new farming machinery that destroyed the Great Plain grasslands at a staggering rate. This led to erosion of the soil, which caused widespread destruction of crops throughout the region.
Loose credit lending is destructive. People are seemingly incapable of knowing how much is too much. It happened in the Great Depression, and it is happening now with the Credit Crunch (I really dislike this term). There must be some pain felt by those who were over-extended. I think that the generation who experienced the Great Depression will always remember the costs of excess. Perhaps this is the opportunity for today's youth to learn the true price of credit.
I think that being frugal in good- and bad-times makes for a better situation for the individual, but I belive it's unrealistic to expect this from the average American adult. It seems to be in our nature to indulge in excess, and credit-lenders are more than happy satisfy that urge when the reward is high.
If you have an 80/20 mortgage, pay down the mortgage that has the highest interest rate. Your Home Equity Line of Credit interest rate is probably below your regular mortgage interest rate right now, so you want to pay down the regular mortgage. While you may not "see" much difference, every little bit you put toward your debt helps. If you feel that you want to pay down the HELOC loan regardless of interest rate because it has the smaller balance, DON'T! Consider the interest rate when deciding which loan to pay down. If you stick to a regular payoff schedule, you will "see" your results faster.
They just serve them with pickles here, like Chic Fil A
I actually quite like the southern chicken sandwich (as compared to their other crispy chicken sandwiches). Always hot and juicy. Not as good as Chic Fil A
I'm game for most any sandwich, even bland ones. I'm wondering if you could scrape off the pickles and mayo and jazz it up with some BBQ or a little Tobasco?
Within the last few decades, I've noticed a phenomenon that seems to affect empty nesters. I've seen these couples buy even more house than they had before because these mega-mansions have more amenities. The reason for this is they think that their children and grandchildren will come and VISIT LONGER if there's plenty of room & entertainment for them. This can include backyard in-ground swimming pools (with water slides,etc,) playrooms with plenty of video games and a big screen TV. They can also hold large family gatherings at the Holidays every year. Plenty of room for overnight company. And, yes, some people live there because they 'can' or because they want to 'show off'. Maybe people think that if they can't offer their kids and grandkids all these attractions, they'll never come over or maybe cut their visits very short. I personally know 3 different couples (with grown children) who live in McMansions for these very reasons.
I'd like to hear other opinions on this. Thanks
@Jacob:
You're right that gas is only worth what people will pay for it, but I think you're mistaken in thinking that people won't pay $10 if that's what it costs.
Of course, very poor people will be forced out of the market altogether, and people with just a little more money will be hard pressed to make ends meet. But most people will just grumble and then make a few small adaptations, such as combining trips.
As I said, there are parts of Europe where gasoline already costs $10 a gallon, and it certainly hasn't put a stop to driving.
I don't think the federal tax on fuel (18.4 cents a gallon) provides any great incentive for the government to suppress technological improvements to fuel efficiency. In fact, I doubt if there are any magic bullets out there for greater fuel efficiency. Rather, it's easy to improve fuel efficiency, by making the cars smaller and lighter and giving them smaller engines. There are such cars on the market. They hadn't been selling very well, until quite recently. In general, I think people will switch to such cars only when they simply can't afford to drive bigger cars. Part of the purpose of my post is to suggest that people make any such change as part of an overall plan.
I would be curious to know what other's think of the sandwich. I ordered one this past week (before I knew of this special) and it was the blandest, tasteless mushy sandwich I've had in my life. One off or is it really that bad?
My husband and I are full-time students. He also works 50+ hours a weeks...I work part-time. We made a combined total of $43,000 last year. We only got $600 back- and we filed our taxes jointly. They said that because of our income, our rebate was reduced....I don't understand!!!
I think you just bought me breakfast on Thursday. Thanks for the tip.
Frugality would kill the modern economy.
Simple, really, it comes down to jobs. Less spending equates to fewer jobs. (Come to think of it, people were damn frugal during the great depression.) Philosophically, you might not believe in conspicuous consumption, but it is what drives the world's economy.
Individually, being frugal does make sense. Globally it doesn't. But not to worry, man is innately a consumer. It's not only his nature, but the nature of nature. In times of plenty, the impulse of all living creatures is to eat and store more of whatever is valuable. This makes sense, because bad times eventually come.
As for me, I'm not very materialistic (comparatively speaking) but I still see the world as it is, not as I wish it to be. To choose to be frugal is only a choice when you live in a rich society. Otherwise, it's not a choice.
Gas is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. The market will not hold $10/gallon gas. $5 or $6 at most. There are plenty of inventions out there to increase gas milage but what benefit does the government have to give that kind of milage. Think of how many tax dollars the gov gets every time you fill up. We have the technology government just needs the money.
http://gas2.org/2008/02/29/37659-mpg-car-found-in-museum-it-was-built-in...
Also i saw comments about "who killed the electric car" The united states doesn't have the power base to support an electric car economy. A hydrogen economy isn't even possible yet due to the power necessary to seperate Hydrogen from water if done on a mass scale from home.
Since you did not have to pay any taxes at all, you only received $300 for yourself and $300 for your child.
When people ask, "Wouldn't it hurt the economy?" ...I think there is a tendency to think of "The Economy" as an end goal, not a means to other goals. To get to the heart of the matter, we need to refine the original question.
i.e., "What are the best measures of a healthy economy?"
First of all, the speed limit needs to be reduced and enforced. This in itself will save lives. It actually can be very pleasant driving at or under the speed limit. People are in such as rush just to save 5 minutes. I experimented on a little trip this weekend. I used my cruise control when possible, did not accelerate needlessly, and stayed at 60 mph. And, no, I was not the only one going 60 in the slow lane. There were others. Bottom line, even with the AC on in my 2006 Toyota Corolla, I went 163 miles on 3.67 gallons = 44.6 mpg. What do you think of that???
Good Article ! Tanning could turn out costly to you
The sun's rays contain two types of ultraviolet radiation that reach your skin: UVA and UVB. UVB radiation burns the upper layers of skin (the epidermis), causing sunburns.
UVA radiation is what makes people tan. UVA rays penetrate to the lower layers of the epidermis, where they trigger cells called melanocytes (pronounced: mel-an-oh-sites) to produce melanin. Melanin is the brown pigment that causes tanning.
Melanin is the body's way of protecting skin from burning. Darker-skinned people tan more deeply than lighter-skinned people because their melanocytes produce more melanin. But just because a person doesn't burn does not mean that he or she is also protected against skin cancer and other problems.
Beds for Sale
Now I'm no expert in energy but I reckon there's a pretty good chance energy costs will continue to rise. Fossil fuel reserves are limited and causing continual tension across the globe . . . demand is high and it's not gonna reduce any time soon . . . so costs should move accordingly. Likewise - renewable sources will require massive capital investments to bring fully to market . . . which is not going to make for 'cheap' energy any time soon.
I'm in the UK and my family have made these changes already:
1 - All utilities are metered so we know exactly what we're using
2 - All lights / appliances are switched off until needed
3 - Car use kept to a minimum (I commute via train & walk 6 miles a day)
Planned for future:
1 - Wind turbine
2 - Solar panels
I currently own a 2700+ square foot house. It's me, my wife, our son, and 2 dogs. We have a huge gameroom for our son and his friends, a gym, an office for me, and a guest bedroom. Sure it's bigger than we "need". But at the same time it has everything we want, so that home is a great place to be. If we have friends / family over, we're not bumping shoulders the whole time - everyone has plenty of space.
So I don't regret having a fairly good sized house. That being said, if I lived alone ( no wife / kid / dogs ) I'd likely be one of those crazies with the 110 square foot homes.