Wow, 80 hours of overtime a month?

Isnt that only a 60 hour work week? I should be so lucky

and honestly thats not a whole lot

I believe that overtime is, technically, hours that you work outside of a normal, 40-hour work week. So, 80 hours of overtime would be 120 hours of work per week, leaving 48 hours per week for sleeping, eating, and relaxing.

The articles state 80 overtime hours per MONTH, which comes to about 20 overtime hours per week. As Zopper said, that's 60 hours a week, at least according to our standard of the 40-hour work week in the US.

I personally have no interest in working that many hours, but have plenty of work-loving friends who put in that kind of time. I really don't think that in itself is enough to kill a person.

Japanese are notoriously workaholics. When I was in Japan, I asked one guy how come they are so rich and efficient. He told me that majority works like hell and they only stopped working and enjoyed vacation during Saturdays and Sundays which they "copied" from the Americans when stayed in their country after World War 2. Nevertheless most Japs still work more than 8 hours a day.

Here in my country (Philippines), where people enjoy a very close family ties, we don't like working for more than 8 hours and we feel that our company steals our quality family time if they want us to work more than 8.

To conclude, it matters what you value most..work or life? For me, I just tried doing blogs so that if this turns out OK, then I can quit my 8-5job and spend more time with family.

Cheers!
Sam

This is a tough question. I mean this guy in Japan was extreme. Who would EVER choose to work over living? I felt silly even writing that...

There are times when you have to work stupid amounts of hours. You have to have balance. Everyone's work is important. It pays bills and allows you to be who you are. Never put it in front of your life and always recognize the body's little hints that you may be overdoing it.

I just wrote a very good article on Temperance. I just wish this guy would have read it too.

I enjoyed overtime, and its pay, when I was younger, and poorer. Now that I am older, and more financially stable, I would much rather have the time. Still, there are times when I find it necessary to work overtime in order to get things done. I have no problem with it as the exception verses the rule.

James Michener said:
"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing.

To himself, he always seems to be doing both."

[http://www.365motivationalquotes.com/2008/04/the-master-in-t.html]

As this quote suggests, the challenge is to develop a career for yourself that is flexible and that you enjoy enough that you can "live to work" instead of just "working to live".

That's why I work online, on my own businesses, and help other people do the same. Life is too short to spend it making other people rich.
Scott Fox
The E-Commerce Success Blog

Work is such an important part of people's identity and they choose it over life because they think they are making a difference. I recently wrote about this here and feel that work and finding meaning from it is too overrated.

In fact, whoever coined the phrase "making a difference" has made a difference, though not a positive one. The phrase gestures towards grandiose achievement that is out of reach for almost everybody. Most of us make very little difference at all – which stands to reason if you think there are 150 million workers in the US alone, making it almost impossible that any of us will make a difference, except to the people we work directly with.

But what is the matter with that? Why isn't that enough? Indeed, according to a survey published last week by YouGov, having nice colleagues is as important as money in persuading employees to stay in their jobs. This means that simply by being liked by your colleagues you are making a difference, even if only a modest one.

@kellye

Rich and poor are all relative terms. Stop badmouthing someone because you don't understand the conditions.

I spend a few months a year in Haiti, and I know very well what the standards of living are in third world countries. But there are some people who have no homes, jobs, or money that are wonderfully rich. They have each other and an incredible faith in God. Believe it or not, they thank him for what they have.

Now a response to the article...

Working very hard to provide for your family is how some people show their family they love them. My grandfather regularly worked 50 hour weeks to provide for his 6 children. So did many people of that era. I don't think he ever told his sons "I love you", but he showed it by providing a nice place for them to grow up in.

It may kill some, and certainly working too much will depress anyone, but some people may just be trying to express their love for their families by providing the best they possibly can.

Rich and poor are all relative terms. Stop badmouthing someone because you don't understand the conditions.

I spend a few months a year in Haiti, and I know very well what the standards of living are in third world countries. But there are some people who have no homes, jobs, or money that are wonderfully rich. They have each other and an incredible faith in God. Believe it or not, they thank him for what they have.

I was not badmouthing her, I was being blunt. After reading what she wrote, I was angry enough to say much worse.

Telling someone they should appreciate what they have and consider themselves lucky should not be construed as an insult. It's a reality check.

Sure, rich and poor are relative conditions - in case it wasn't immediately obvious, that was my whole point. It's a little much to whine on about how you can barely afford to pay your cell phone bill when there are people dying in the streets of places like Mumbai, Darfur, and Port au Prince.

To rich Americans Jen is poor. To the other 95% of the world, Jen lives like a princess.

Cell phones are not a necessity. A twelve-pack of beer on the weekends to "chill out" with the neighbors is not a necessity. Pets are not a necessity. Cars are not a necessity. Neither is a place "close to nature for the kids"...or the time to "stroll along at the carnival"...these are *luxuries*, not necessities. It irritates me to hear people complain about stuff like this when there are people who don't even have enough to feed or clothe their kids, much less spend time with them.

Yes, I DO understand the conditions. I've been at her level of poverty before and considered myself lucky to have what I had. And if you really spend a few months a year in a third world country, hearing someone complain about having any kind of home to live in should make you indignant too.

I agree with Erin. If Jen really feels badly about her husband's wellbeing, she should take on a night job, sell something, do *anything* but sit around and complain that she has no skills. Because this is America. If you have no skills or education, it's not because the opportunity wasn't available. It's because you didn't take advantage of it.

The American dream isn't the right to prosperity. It's only the potential for a better life. This country is full of amazing opportunities. But that potential can only be realized through hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

i sort of think the way jen thinks. my husband has a job he works very hard at 6 days a week, and it puts the food on the table. but other people have jobs they don't do much at, and they live like rock stars.
i think america is all backwards. like idolizing celebrities...they make so much money, they could feed third world countries. and all they do is act! shouldn't doctors, nurses, daycare workers all make more than an actor? i think so.
there is so much wrong with the country these days, just read a recent poll of americans. they all say the country is going downhill fast.
i don't compare myself to third world countries when i compare the way i live. i compare myself to other americans. when i see someone making thousands of dollars more than my own husband, for playing ping pong and lounging on couches at Google.com, while my husband works his ass off, it makes me mad, and it doesn't seem right. and my husband's job is something americans need. something the country would not run, without. we could live without google!
i get what you're saying, jen.
compared to others, who work a lot less, your husband probably does a lot more and makes less. right? at least that's the way i feel.

Man, you guys aren't getting my point.
My Husband works his *ss off, 7 days a week, and we are what people would call "lower middle class".
Yet, others do so much less than him, and live in their McMansions, with their boats, and Gap clothes and drive their Lexus'....

So it sucks that we can never get ahead. Sure, we're much better off than we were 10 years ago. But this society doesn't seem to allow much "getting ahead" room.

He makes $1400 a week. And brings home hundreds and hundreds less than that.
Why?
Because we have to pay for Iraq to fix and rebuild their country.
Are they even thankful?
No. They blow us up left and right.
And WE are the ones paying most of it. The middle class. The people who REALLY work hard to get their 2 whole panels of white picket fence.

So my Husband is left to work, work, work, and work.
So that other countries can have a better life?
What have they done for US?????????????
That's what I thought.......NOTHING.
And if their new democracy works out (if they can ever get their sh*t together and LET IT WORK OUT) and they get nice and rich and prosperous....do you think they'll EVER do anything for us?
NO.
But lets send my Husband's hard earned cash over there, shall we?
Yeah. Cause WE don't want it.

And that other person was right. I do NOT compare myself to other countries when I count my blessings.
I compare myself to America.

I live in a tiny row house, in the middle of town, where in front of every house is a work truck with a ladder rack and tools, and a nicer car for the wives and kids to use.
Yes, we ARE lucky compared to a lot of people.
But when I see my friend's sister's home, who is on WELFARE for NO reason at all, except that HER mom was on welfare all her life, and there she is, in her nice apartment, with her central air, dishwasher and garbage disposal, with her kids in their Gap clothes, and her with her pretty nails, goverment cheese milk, eggs, peanut butter and orange juice, and let's not forget her FREE health care and her PERFECT teeth, and she never worked a day in her life....

I say we went WRONG somewhere.

I would LOVE a garbage disposal! I would LOVE a dishwasher! And I sure would LOVE central air, right now.
But do I have them?
NO.
Why? Because MY Husband works his *ss off 7 days a week, and almost half of it supports that lazy loser chick AND all her neighbors!

So yeah, I'm "tiffed" when Sunday rolls around, and my Kids ask me when Dad is getting home from work, and I say "probably at 5".
It's not right.
He's practically killing himself for everyone ELSE in the world.

I never complain to him. It's not his fault. So he didn't become a doctor. I never expected that from him.
I would just think that for the hours he works, we might have a garbage disposal or something!

And yes, I intend to get a job when the kids are in school full time next year. I wish I could get one now. But with his hours being all over the place from one day to the next, I could never make it to a job on time. We've already tried that.

Maybe he should just quit, then we can live in a NICE house, built and maintained by the government, fridge stocked by the government, and clothes, nails, and medical care BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Then we could live our happy lives.

@jen - I feel for you, but I don't understand why you can't afford a garbage disposal. They aren't that expensive, and the pipe to hook it up is not too expensive. :)

I agree with you. There certainly are some terrible gaps between entitlements for the poor, and entitlements for working people. Back in the past, the real "minimum wage" was a lot higher, and working paid off better. That's when these relatively high humanitarian standards of housing, medical care, and other entitlements for the poor were established.

The problem is, in the past 30 years or so, the wage bottom has dropped, and there's a gap between welfare benefits for non-workers and the expenses you have to incur as a worker purchasing services in the private market.

So, we probably have to adjust a few things - entitlements to the poor should probably be decreased, and some subsidies like section 8 might stand a cut, but we also need to mandate a higher minimum wage, perhaps nationalize health care, and perhaps increase some public spending for entitlements that working people can use. In this way, our taxes are used to benefit more working people, more directly. Expanding entitlements can also lower the up-front and ongoing costs for a poor person's entry into the workforce.

Certain kinds of "welfare", like a lower bus fare, universal health care, reduced public college fees, or after-school programs, translate into more cash-in-hand for most people, and have a levelling effect on incomes (because more affluent people pay more taxes, but everyone benefits from these savings).

We have seen the terrible effects of years of ideological opposition to "government programs". On the one hand, we've got an economy in decline, and our "bootstraps" are frayed and weak. Opportunity to benefit handsomely from your work isn't so common as it used to be (though the opportunity to overwork, and compete with engineers doing 12-14 hour workdays seems to have increased!).

On the other hand, we had a military surplus that allowed us to invade an oil-rich nation in the hopes of toppling its government (and that was an accomplished mission) and replace it with a compliant government eager to work with western oil companies (has not happend quite yet).

Perhaps if the welfare spending we a touch greater, and the military spending were a bit lower, we'd be complaining about lazy liberals and the 32 hour work-week, and not so angry at Bush and Arabs, and upset about our 60 hour work weeks.

@xin - I hope you were joking. These days, you have to be poor to get all those freebies, and they don't last long. After 6 months, they make you do menial labor for less than minimum wage.

"others do so much less than him, and live in their McMansions, with their boats, and Gap clothes and drive their Lexus'"

"there she is, in her nice apartment, with her central air, dishwasher and garbage disposal, with her kids in their Gap clothes, and her with her pretty nails"

Stop trying to keep up with the Jones'. There is so much more to life than owning expensive clothes/cars/flats/appliances/whatever.

The best things in life really are free: love, friendship, life...

I'll jump in to say that I enjoyed reading Xin's article.  I can see both sides -- it's frustrating at many levels of society.  I know some people choose  differently than others based on what they value at that moment in life, and it really is a personal choice.  That being said, I don't know anyone around here who gets government assistance and it "pays" for their nails.  Sure there are some who abuse the system, but they are usually gaming more than just our government....   they are usually avoiding all kinds of societal debt, skipping out on bills, and maybe have some "investors" in their lifestyles.  An ADC check and some food stamps alone won't buy some of the things mentioned in this article. 

We also want to understand that everything is not always what it seems.  I have gotten some really nice GAP clothing at garage sales, I have a friend in beauty school who can give me a $90 cut and color for free, and I work hard from home between the hours of 6-10am, 2-3 pm, and 9-11 pm (which appears to those around me like I don't have a "real" job.)  Most important to me is that I'm good with my money and that I treat others well.... I wouldn't want anyone to judge me if one day I decided to buy something nice that I worked hard for (be it a Lexus, a cruise, etc).  It's my business. 

Dear Jen:

I also am not living the American Dream I thouht I was going to live when I was younger. But I will tell you about the life I do live. We live in a small house with several things wrong in our house from holes in the floor to droopy ceiling fans and electricity that goes out far to often from power surges. We have lived this way for many years. I have a wonderful husband who also works 80 to 105 hours in any given week. I think we are not that much alike in situations, but in attitude I think their are great differences. I also would like to see my husband slow down but thats probably not going to happen soon, so I make sure he has tea and me to greet him at the door when he comes home. Me and or the children rub his feet after work, the children wait on him hand and foot out of love and respect not fear or anger. They sit on our bed at night and we talk and pray together after his shower and home cooked meal.. He loves his family and they love and appreciate him and we would never publically say anything bad about him or let him in any way think he's not providing well enough for us. Our love for him goes much further than what he makes or provides. Skip ahead a few years now and ask my kids weather they remember the house we lived in or the cars we drove or do they remember the holidays he missed. No they remember Dad hiding their Christmas bikes in the well house a month befor Christmas and them not finding it. They remember Dad could not make it to the hospital when his first Grandchild was born but he openly cried the next morning when he held her for the first time and now he sees her everyday because I still don't have a job and I watch her everyday. This is his gift to me. I have seen both of my children say their first words and take their first steps and now the same for my grandchild and he hears about everything second hand. He may not be their everyday, but everyday would not happen without him and he knows it. Sometimes attitude can change the situation. This is not meant to hurt your feeling or offend, just to show a differenc.

The freedom to make the best of what you have, or the courage to change it if it's not good enough.

This is not a comment about working too much, as the subject started out, but that I agree that our government doesn't help those who need it in many cases. I am 19 years old, and between my boyfriend and I we bring home about 90k a year, and rising. So I am pretty well off for my age, I suppose, but a little over a year ago, I was 17, living on my own, with a baby, and a job at Arby's. I went to the welfare office to get daycare for my son. I had an offer for the job I currently have, all I needed was help for 6 months to finish high school so that I could qualify for that job. What did I get?? DENIED! I didn't want cash, or food, or even free rent, I just wanted a little help with caring for my son, so that I could pay my own bills, and finish school to never have to deal with them again. But they denied me over 45 dollars a month!!! Luckily, there were others around that helped me in my time of need when my government would not. And I did not get the same dirty looks, and judgements that I felt when I walked into that welfare office. How is it that those of us that aren't as lucky as I, with the support group I have, to ever pull themselves out of the welfare trap. Those that make 45 dollars too much per month to get help, and the consequence of that is paying more than their wages for the care of a child? If my school hadn't taken care of my son for FREE, where would I be today? Still stuck barely making it, yet receiving no help?!

Before complaining about those living off welfare, think about the choices they have? In order to get out of the welfare hole, they have to essentially make themselves poorer first. Not many people can leap out of that hole. I was lucky, but most have to crawl carefully out, and as soon as their feet touch level ground, they slip into the next hole, which is much deeper. Making essentially the same amount of money, but with expenses that double or triple.

Before you badmouth a group of people, it would be good to try to step back, and try to understand what their other options would be. How much they are actually struggling, like most of us, no matter what our income is, or who helps us.

/endrant.